waywt? saved my life

[Guest jmatsu]

american. but im not saying all that as an americanism. if you look at the history of each of those fashions, they've built on eachother considerably.

it's an interesting phenomenon in terms of subculture fashions. i had been under the typical impression that malcom mclaran curated elements of the new york scene from various bands and repackaged that shit in the u.k. so before there was even a genre or lifestyle known as punk in ny, i feel that the people of the time had no distinct uniformity (at least for the early stages). what i mean is the new york dolls, ramones, the heartbreakers, talking heads suicide (similar to the ramones) etc., all dressed semi different. i mean i'm sure it's a big possiblity they were influenced by the mods/skins whatever, but i never really noticed it so much in terms of punk/rock before the no-wave shit in ny.

funny, we got into this because of a red jacket.

[Guest]

London hall.

Is your bro a bro?

that's sounds right i think he's there

not sure though i cant remember now

nah .. pretty normal guy, wears a lot of obey shirts

you truly are a shame to canada my young friend.

you're a fucking idiot and im nobodys "young friend"

[skiniks]

oh, right on brah i gotta peace tho get gnarly with my brahs... hate ya later dude

[Fuuma]

it's an interesting phenomenon in terms of subculture fashions. i had been under the typical impression that malcom mclaran curated elements of the new york scene from various bands and repackaged that shit in the u.k. so before there was even a genre or lifestyle known as punk in ny, i feel that the people of the time had no distinct uniformity (at least for the early stages). what i mean is the new york dolls, ramones, the heartbreakers, talking heads suicide (similar to the ramones) etc., all dressed semi different. i mean i'm sure it's a big possiblity they were influenced by the mods/skins whatever, but i never really noticed it so much in terms of punk/rock before the no-wave shit in ny.

funny, we got into this because of a red jacket.

Exactly, McLaren just dug Richard Hell's look a lot and used it as the blue print for the english punk look that, even though it came afterwards, became synonimous with punk, both in terms of dress and general philosophy.

[NESK]

i wanna do keg stands with both you homos.

[sleazie ninja number 47]

i wanna do keg stands with both you homos.

one of my former friends did a keg stand for 90 something seconds once. He also chugged two bottles of red wine back to back (not on the same night). I always wondered which feat was more impressive.

[jeepster]

it's an interesting phenomenon in terms of subculture fashions. i had been under the typical impression that malcom mclaran curated elements of the new york scene from various bands and repackaged that shit in the u.k. so before there was even a genre or lifestyle known as punk in ny, i feel that the people of the time had no distinct uniformity (at least for the early stages). what i mean is the new york dolls, ramones, the heartbreakers, talking heads suicide (similar to the ramones) etc., all dressed semi different. i mean i'm sure it's a big possiblity they were influenced by the mods/skins whatever, but i never really noticed it so much in terms of punk/rock before the no-wave shit in ny.

funny, we got into this because of a red jacket.

mclaran did go to new york to "repackage" the scene that was emerging, but no-wave did not appear to much later, and in its nascent stages... 80-81, maybe. it only lasted a year or two, probably to 83, but at that point, talking heads had broken out, everyone was copying suicide, and sonic youth were touring the world.

the jacket is a starting point for many looks that were ther before, and were to come. the bomber jacket was adopted and slimmed to suit the bikers in the mid-late 50's. it then became part of the biker look in the 60's, as an emerging counter-culture adopted it again, and it went from slim to full, and so on. in britain, the jacket became satirized by the middle and upper class, and so it was a working class insignia. this is where the mods and skins show up. the mods/skins were working class movements, that decided that hell, we wanna look sharp, but not spend mad money doing so. so they bought cheap suits a few sizes too small, and championed brands such as Doc Marten, Ben Sherman, Fred Perry and many others. the mod insignia, the bullseye was culled from the bomber jackets that they wore. going back to my earlier statement about the culmination of fashion, and how it relates to this jacket:

skins were an offshoot of the mod look: a working class asthetic. glam popularized the flowery san francisco look, but combined it with a victorian-inspired whimsy, but never strayed from the clean lines of classic british design. punk basically took all those looks before, and turned them inside out, ripped them up, and gave them sort of a sheik-fetishism and androgyny, far past the ambiguous looks of the mods or the glam rocker set, to a almost sexless bondage-inspired look. patent skin-tight leather, especially in jackets, became popular, because it gave an equality of sex to the wearer. but what the punks did was reject the concepts from before at the same time. by destroying their clothing and sexing up their self-image to the point of human charictature, they invented a hybrid fashion that was a summation of many prior looks. though everything may have seemed skin tight and streamlined, the drappery of the hippies remained, but just replaced as torn clothing, etc.

this is the look that the east village new yorkers had already seen, and which the new york dolls kept, but many bands chose to just go the jeans/jackets way (ramones!), because mclaran took all the gusto of the dolls and reproduced it in the sex pistols and basically stole their thunder. dolls would eventually burn out anyways, and other bands at the time, richard hell & the voidoids, johnny thunders & the heartbreakers, all adopted similar looks, but never embracing the same caustic and overtly sexual look of british punk. most america bands had gotten past the ideal concept of punk, a term first popularized in Creem magazine by writer David Marsh, and it immediately summed up the british concept of punk - sexual, painful, dominative, ambiguous, and in many cases, homoerotic, whether it meant to or not. american punk never went by the classification of "punk" it just went by "no bullshit rock n roll"

the jacket is the line that passes through all of it as "no bullshit," but you gotta be able to pull of no-bullshit.

[Guest]

i wanna do keg stands with both you homos.

hahahahaah

[Guest jmatsu]

i don't even know what we're supposed to be talking about anymore. thanks for the subculture lecture though. so i guess if we backtrack alittle, did robi pull the red jacket off? was his statment about punk ala buzzcocks vs. the king of pop vs. the red jacket accurate? i don't think meant that the red jacket was exclusively (or originated from)a punk thing, but that it was obviously done by them before mj.

[Ichigo100%]

hey hey, hows everyone doin ?

[Double D]

like.. i dont dislike this, but honestly, theres always something lacking about robie's fits. their all like good in concept, but the delivery just lacks. maybe you should try to find more ideal settings that set off the outfits or at least try action shots, or pose a bit, but honestly, this one looks a little euro-trashy. all the stuff individually is very nice, but it just doesn't come together properly. this is IMO, and its not hate against you, and jmatsu can put in his 2 cence if he wants, but i just feel like theres always a bit too much goin on with your fits, which for the most part are very good.

I don't think it's the jacket... personally I think the prewashed, modern looking Tsubis are what throw off the rest of the outfit... a more retro slim jean and that's an absolutely golden new wave look in my opinion.

[jeepster]

i don't even know what we're supposed to be talking about anymore. thanks for the subculture lecture though. so i guess if we backtrack alittle, did robi pull the red jacket off? was his statment about punk ala buzzcocks vs. the king of pop vs. the red jacket accurate? i don't think meant that the red jacket was exclusively (or originated from)a punk thing, but that it was obviously done by them before mj.

well, like i said, the jacket has so much "no-bullshit" history, robie's gotta be able to pull off a no-bullshit look. which considering the rest of the outfit, is not the forte of this fit in particular. michael jackson pulled it off, cause well, he's (was) the king of pop. if robie changed up a few things with that outfit - 1), instead of tucking the jeans, do a skinhead roll to the top of the boot 2) get rid of the shirt, get a white one, maybe even with a v-neck or a lowslung neckline 3) black jeans, blue jeans, or solid grey jeans - the faded thing isn't pulling the outfit together very well ---- he'd be fine. but the outfit as it stood, was not solid. he can pull the jacket off, he just needs to know that the jacket means "no bullshit." so dont front, and rep the jacket right, and it will reward you (i.e. Michael Jackson's Beat It)

[Double D]

What was 'no bullshit' about Beat It? The sheer homoeroticism of Michael Jackson's leather-clad prancing and squealing versus Eddie van Halen's leather-clad guitar masturbation?

I mean, there's nothing wrong with that per se, but we're hardly in Paul Simonon territory of 'being able to pull anything off' here.

[Guest jmatsu]

the jacket is the line that passes through all of it as "no bullshit," but you gotta be able to pull of no-bullshit.[/quote]

in theory i'd like to believe this possible. but when shit is said and done, it's basically opinion. it also depends on what kind of context/connotation/influence robi was trying to pull off. we weren't in nyc/uk when so how can we judge? is it possible to pull of a "no bullshit" punk (or punk influenced) look? i am of the opinion that alot most if not all punk in the 70-80's was contrived as well. wouldn't that make those ensembles bullshit as too (if i liberally guess as to what you mean by no bullshit)? was it not bullshit just because of the timeline-the beginings of punk/whatever? a critique that goes to the simple extent of "it looks like shit" or "it looks good" with specific factors that we, of this era, can relate too would be fine, i guess. saying shit like mj just seems close minded, in terms of critiquing a red jacket. robi bascially sees the clash or the buzzcocks.

this is becoming an arugment of what is authentic/who talks the talk and who walks the walk. so besides the subculture lesson, i'd love to hear your take about the incorporation of punk fashion influence on "punks" or consumers of today. thanks.

[Guest jmatsu]

the conversation and the subsequent clash of opinions of the jacket vs. his wardrobe is definitely fine/interesting. (regardless of whether it was robi's or not) i just find it irritating when mass market consumers who've joined this board make some trite/inaccurate claims like "red jackets = mj." that was the main point i was trying to make. if robi had made the claim that it was exclusively a punk thing (which he did not...merely stated that that was the imagery he personally saw and that it was done before mj) then i probably would have kicked his ass too.

[cmirsky]

/\ Seriously, are we still talking about Robi's fit? god.....

Start your own thread.....

[Liberation1945]

fuck that shit man...ive gotten mj just for wearing a fedora...im like wtfzzzz???

i was wearing tight red jeans and some guy in a car shouted "the ramooooooooooooneeeeeeeesssssssssss are aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive"

[jeepster]

What was 'no bullshit' about Beat It? The sheer homoeroticism of Michael Jackson's leather-clad prancing and squealing versus Eddie van Halen's leather-clad guitar masturbation?

I mean, there's nothing wrong with that per se, but we're hardly in Paul Simonon territory of 'being able to pull anything off' here.

well, we all know how many records michael jackson has sold, so it comes off as, hey i wore the jacket, didnt bs the look, and look what it got me.

it was convincing. thats why its both a pop-culture footnote and one of the all-time fashion statements - it has integrity, no matter who wears it. like you said, and what i said, the jeans throw it off. michael jackson wore spandex/black jeans. so the jeans definately prove that they matter in the equation with the jacket.

simonon is in a league of his own as far as im concerned... see the next part of this response...

in theory i'd like to believe this possible. but when shit is said and done, it's basically opinion. it also depends on what kind of context/connotation/influence robi was trying to pull off. we weren't in nyc/uk when so how can we judge? is it possible to pull of a "no bullshit" punk (or punk influenced) look? i am of the opinion that alot most if not all punk in the 70-80's was contrived as well. wouldn't that make those ensembles bullshit as too (if i liberally guess as to what you mean by no bullshit)? was it not bullshit just because of the timeline-the beginings of punk/whatever? a critique that goes to the simple extent of "it looks like shit" or "it looks good" with specific factors that we, of this era, can relate too would be fine, i guess. saying shit like mj just seems close minded, in terms of critiquing a red jacket. robi bascially sees the clash or the buzzcocks.

this is becoming an arugment of what is authentic/who talks the talk and who walks the walk. so besides the subculture lesson, i'd love to hear your take about the incorporation of punk fashion influence on "punks" or consumers of today. thanks.

so considering robi is going for a buzzcocks/clash look, its hard to call his wearing it "authentic" considering his combining it with a designer-sheik concept of their wardrobe. the influence of punk on todays designers is obvious, from our tight jeans, to our loud shirts, jackets, messy hair, etc. punk, mostly definitely, was a defining moment for fashion then, and shall continue to be. consumers eventually embraced punk (lets call it "first generation" for all intensive purposes) because it became fashionable. just like how hippies became "it" after monterey - justifying them as a legit social and cultural phenomena and fashion - punk was "it." even before punk was punk, iggy pop showed his ass and negative percent body fat and called himself a punk. and his music and his image became iconic to what we would later accept as punk - and how designers conceived punk.

paul simonon is a good example of the legitamency of designers culling a look from a classic movement. in another 20 years, punk will be classic rock, and designers will still consider it, at the couture level, and at the kohl's/tj maxx/marshalls/jc penny level. it can be universally adapted to whatever style because its about not giving a shit and still looking good. thats why i say that jacket is "no bullshit" - if robi wants buzzcocks, let him go for it, but it is about delivery (where the jeans sorta kill it). punk was all about talking the talk and walking the walk, so dressing or being influenced to dress like them should hold the same precept in high esteem. even MJ was "punk" because he didnt bullshit about "Beat it" or Thriller. it was his statement and look, the movie The Wedding Singer even satirizes that. punk is fashion for all practical applications. robi can do his own thing, fine, but theres still a swagger that needs to come along in the delivery of the outfit. and its no hate on him.

[Guest jmatsu]

/\ Seriously, are we still talking about Robi's fit? god.....

Start your own thread.....

uuuhh no we're (not and never with you at least) not and we never would cause your knowledge of decent music and fashion seems too miniscule/shallow. sorry, again you just don't qualify.

[Guest jmatsu]

fuck that shit man...ive gotten mj just for wearing a fedora...im like wtfzzzz???

i was wearing tight red jeans and some guy in a car shouted "the ramooooooooooooneeeeeeeesssssssssss are aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive"

yeah man that's stupid, but i'd like to expected alittle better in superfuture. i was wrong.

[BodiesOfLight]

like.. i dont dislike this, but honestly, theres always something lacking about robie's fits. their all like good in concept, but the delivery just lacks. maybe you should try to find more ideal settings that set off the outfits or at least try action shots, or pose a bit, but honestly, this one looks a little euro-trashy. all the stuff individually is very nice, but it just doesn't come together properly. this is IMO, and its not hate against you, and jmatsu can put in his 2 cence if he wants, but i just feel like theres always a bit too much goin on with your fits, which for the most part are very good.

The way he stands has alot to do with it. Better posture, more confident posture will project the outfit better.

[Guest jmatsu]

so considering robi is going for a buzzcocks/clash look, its hard to call his wearing it "authentic" considering his combining it with a designer-sheik concept of their wardrobe. the influence of punk on todays designers is obvious, from our tight jeans, to our loud shirts, jackets, messy hair, etc. punk, mostly definitely, was a defining moment for fashion then, and shall continue to be. consumers eventually embraced punk (lets call it "first generation" for all intensive purposes) because it became fashionable. just like how hippies became "it" after monterey - justifying them as a legit social and cultural phenomena and fashion - punk was "it." even before punk was punk, iggy pop showed his ass and negative percent body fat and called himself a punk. and his music and his image became iconic to what we would later accept as punk - and how designers conceived punk.

paul simonon is a good example of the legitamency of designers culling a look from a classic movement. in another 20 years, punk will be classic rock, and designers will still consider it, at the couture level, and at the kohl's/tj maxx/marshalls/jc penny level. it can be universally adapted to whatever style because its about not giving a shit and still looking good. thats why i say that jacket is "no bullshit" - if robi wants buzzcocks, let him go for it, but it is about delivery (where the jeans sorta kill it). punk was all about talking the talk and walking the walk, so dressing or being influenced to dress like them should hold the same precept in high esteem. even MJ was "punk" because he didnt bullshit about "Beat it" or Thriller. it was his statement and look, the movie The Wedding Singer even satirizes that. punk is fashion for all practical applications. robi can do his own thing, fine, but theres still a swagger that needs to come along in the delivery of the outfit. and its no hate on him.

no, i totally get what you're saying. and this is not so much about robi anymore. swagger/vibe/how you come across is definitely important for any look, but if a certain look has been done already, can that look/swagger be engineered to a degree that it is respectable/credible? easily said can the look/swagger look uncontrived or be natural? is savoir faire in terms of fashion an innate ability?

so for arguments sake, in this case, how could the subject, robi, improve his "swagger?"

[stuntastic]

My god................

[Liberation1945]

in the end, people here wanna stand out, but they dont wanna STAND OUT. any time you have someone really rep a subculture or really have a distinguished image they get clowned on...gothninja is a testament to this because it's gonna make you look good and stand out, but it's still quite safe(it's easy to get a nice outfit with clean lines if you're wearing all black).

basically, if you take a little bit from punk(or any subculture) and you put it into your outfit it's gonna go unnoticed, but if a PUNK in every sense of the word posted a fit here, he'd get bombed on.

[ddohnggo]

Just Shop @ Seven

[Guest jmatsu]

in the end, people here wanna stand out, but they dont wanna STAND OUT. any time you have someone really rep a subculture or really have a distinguished image they get clowned on...gothninja is a testament to this because it's gonna make you look good and stand out, but it's still quite safe(it's easy to get a nice outfit with clean lines if you're wearing all black).

basically, if you take a little bit from punk(or any subculture) and you put it into your outfit it's gonna go unnoticed, but if a PUNK in every sense of the word posted a fit here, he'd get bombed on.

correct. i don't know what homeboy was trying to do (with the ensemble) exactly (didn't talk to him about that today). maybe he just mentioned the clash and buzzocks to convey that the mj argument was inept/cliche'...

[Guest jmatsu]

Just Shop @ Seven

sorry i do. i'll eventually try to step up my game and go to artelier.

[jeepster]

no, i totally get what you're saying. and this is not so much about robi anymore. swagger/vibe/how you come across is definitely important for any look, but if a certain look has been done already, can that look/swagger be engineered to a degree that it is respectable/credible? easily said can the look/swagger look uncontrived or be natural? is savoir faire in terms of fashion an innate ability?

well, yes and no.

people pull it off - pete doherty, originally was a levi's/tee shirt/leather jacket punk with a punk band, but then he came into his own as both a songwriter and a musical personality (and famous drug addict), and discovered that what he was wearing was already partly high fashion, just not with the designer labels. so he got some dior jeans and some nicer tee's, a nicer leather jacket, and became a fashion icon.

there are others though that don't pull it off with as much grace and swagger, because theres a certain attitude that they affect that causes them to think so highly of themselves and their look that they are above all. which leads to the concept of being overly contrived - which punk saught to do away with. punk basically wanted to be as sincere as possible, without coming across as a joke. most people originally thought it was a joke, but its lasted thus far, and shall continue to, because it sells clothes.

punk is foremost a state of mind and being, than a fashion. kurt cobain - jeans and flannel: defined punk in the 1990's. some music journalist just decided to call it "grunge" instead. but punk was grungy to begin with, so nothing really ever changed.

punk is attitude, state of mind and being, fashion, and lifestyle. some people incorporate some aspects of it, but how you come across physically and in appearance is how people are gonna label you "punk" or just "some dude wearing some ratty clothes."

excuse my sweeping generalizations.

[Liberation1945]

what if you mix seven and atelier OMGZ FASHION BIG BANG

i feel like i'm in a lecture about punk and i want to go the bathroom

[jeepster]

what if you mix seven and atelier OMGZ FASHION BIG BANG

i feel like i'm in a lecture about punk and i want to go the bathroom

haha

sorry, i get on tangents and shit when people get in these conversations with me.

speaking of bathrooms - i definately need to take a shit.