Selvage doesnt means anything anymore.

[smapty]

gap has probably been making jeans longer than you've been born, stop acting so special.

Wtf? I was talking about commercialization in general, not just stupid selvedge. I thought I made that clear when I said that I wasnt even very into denim. Let me clarify for you - businesses exist to make money and in the course of doing that they tend to (not always) oversimplify, dumb down, do whatever to a commodity to make it more palatable to a mass market so it can make money. Obviously you could provide a very valid counterpoint and we could delve into the minutae of economic theory and supply and demand markets but thats hardly the point and would be quite boring. Im saying that I find myself a bit disgusted at trends such as this and I thought the mass marketing of selvedge denim could be an example of a multinational firm exploiting the positive connotations associated with a premium product such as selvedge denim and using it to make money while not maintaining a level of quality usually associated with the product. If you feel like thats being insecure, I disagree but whatever guys, just dont get personal and say Im acting special or some other bullshit like that.

PS To the above, who said they dont get a sense of identity or uniqueness from their sense of style that is such a load of shit - clothes are signifiers of status, subculture, conformity and deviance and are universally understood to operate as such in western culture.

[Dick Danger]

just imagine that shit that would fly if you guys had something important to worry about

[cheapmuthafukr]

PS To the above, who said they dont get a sense of identity or uniqueness from their sense of style that is such a load of shit - clothes are signifiers of status, subculture, conformity and deviance and are universally understood to operate as such in western culture.

right. and bitches are known by thier bitching about things they cant control.. in western culture.

clothes should express who you are, but alot of people try to make themselves something by thier clothing.

if you are willing to change how you dress because it is cathing on in the mainstream, youre no better than the trend hoppers... youre just hopping on a different trend.

[Dick Danger]

youre just hopping on a different trend.

deep........

[smapty]

right. and bitches are known by thier bitching about things they cant control.. in western culture.

clothes should express who you are, but alot of people try to make themselves something by thier clothing.

if you are willing to change how you dress because it is cathing on in the mainstream, youre no better than the trend hoppers... youre just hopping on a different trend.

Spend a little less time shopping or on the internet and read buddy, it does wonders Who knows, your preteen logic may develop yet!

[cheapmuthafukr]

Spend a little less time shopping or on the internet and read buddy, it does wonders Who knows, your preteen logic may develop yet!

i was gonna say the same thing about you...

[smapty]

!

[Servo2000]

Hey hey hey

I'm pretty sure we this: http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=19112

thread for a reason.

Although this thread might as well be supertrash anyway so carry on.

[cmykhustla]

Spend a little less time shopping or on the internet and read buddy, it does wonders Who knows, your preteen logic may develop yet!

how awesome would it be if you could actually hit people via the internet?

[Aeros]

Think about it this way. How many people that wear the selvage they buy from the GAP, Macy's, etc., are actually going to cuff their jeans? Honestly I wouldn't worry about it.

[sycamore no more]

^^ I would have knocked so many homeboys out.

[cheapmuthafukr]

Think about it this way. How many people that wear the selvage they buy from the GAP, Macy's, etc., are actually going to cuff their jeans? Honestly I wouldn't worry about it.

about 10 times more than the people here who buy jeans with selvage. shit... for me its an afterthought... just so happens that most of the jeans i like have it.

except ande whalls... those are non selvage and fucking great(<--shameless plug)

[machineo]

our taste dictates what we wear, be it influenced or not by whats posted on boards just like this. if youre thinking low quality selvage is somehow throwing salt in your game, then bitch. clothes say something about who you are, it doesnt make you. hype's about fads, not style. if more people learn about selvage, hopefully itll be like a foot in the door to learning all the shit they can about denim so they can obsess over every setting crease. the damn way it should be.

[poly800rock]

Wtf? I was talking about commercialization in general, not just stupid selvedge. I thought I made that clear when I said that I wasnt even very into denim. Let me clarify for you - businesses exist to make money and in the course of doing that they tend to (not always) oversimplify, dumb down, do whatever to a commodity to make it more palatable to a mass market so it can make money. Obviously you could provide a very valid counterpoint and we could delve into the minutae of economic theory and supply and demand markets but thats hardly the point and would be quite boring. Im saying that I find myself a bit disgusted at trends such as this and I thought the mass marketing of selvedge denim could be an example of a multinational firm exploiting the positive connotations associated with a premium product such as selvedge denim and using it to make money while not maintaining a level of quality usually associated with the product. If you feel like thats being insecure, I disagree but whatever guys, just dont get personal and say Im acting special or some other bullshit like that.

this is like in 94 when warner brothers released dookie by green day and a multinational company waterdowned and "killed" punk.

12 years later, I see a kid with a mohawk walking down the street, so i guess punk is still alive.

it's not so much your ideals that bother me, its the ownership and exclusivity that you seem to take. these threads have been popping up a lot recently, and some sort of textbook philosophical rant follows, but at the end of the day, the same thing happens, life goes on, and clothes are fucking clothes. The entire world does not revolve around the way you dress and if Gap sold selvedge jeans, so even for your sake, why get upset about it.

[m1lk]

I was at the Mall last night... A Dallas mall... where 6 months ago you couldnt find anything without a hollywood wash out. Now GAP has selvage... I would bitch, but they are actually not too shab.

But.. Macy's has a whack, junior like section, for "young men" and they have some silly selvage jeans, made in Mexico. Comes with some silly tag explaining the selvage history and a price tag of 60$ or so. The jeans do that whack crap where they leave the selvage as the seam of one of the back pockets. Anyhow.. it has officially caught on.

I am far from "elite" with fashion or denim, but its sad when too much of a good thing turns rotten.

Selvage used to mean something.

i walk around butt naked cuz everyone wears clothes.

[andewhall]

People in a certain "scene/in the know" about some product or music always tend to get pissed when their secret gets out to the masses, the product gets mainstream heat etc. I think its healthy, like evolution of products, sound whatever. When something blows up it pushes new things to happen.....new fresh ideas from the underground. Carry on.

[poly800rock]

good point ande

now the calm before the robideux storm...

[diewhitegirls]

I'm going to add my needless $.02. Selvege quality is still selvege quality. If you're buying selvege purely so that other selvege superqueers can masturbate on your thread and spread their ropey jizm on their computer screen, then I can understand your point. Otherwise, selvege is still selvege.

[houston]

I guess my point was missed.

I used to crap when I found selvage jeans in the public. And I could almost count on the fact that the denim would be above par. Now mexican selvage? So they got "vintage looms" in mass amounts down there now.

The real kicker is the way they make the pockets with the selvage finish. It makes it seem cheap.

and for those who say its "just jeans" get off this f'n forum. We are all here because denim means more to us than your average joe.

PS for the guy looking to buy Nudies fom Barney's. Try em on at Barney's, then save yourself 100$+ by purchasing via the web at Kitchener if you're still interested in them.

[blm14]

hhmm..

never really thought of levis as a niche product

Levis are not a niche product, but levis Capital E, premium, Red and Vintage labels certainly are. 99% of the levis sold are the generic kind you can buy for $24 that NEVER have selvage

[blm14]

I used to crap when I found selvage jeans in the public. And I could almost count on the fact that the denim would be above par.

This was an erroneous assumption to begin with. Narrow loom and cotton consumption does not a high quality texture make. At least not with any consistancy. You can have crappy quality selvage, great quality selvage, crappy quality non, and amazing quality non. Just having selvage doesn't really gaurantee anything about quality inherently...

[coleslawyum]

This was an erroneous assumption to begin with. Narrow loom and cotton consumption does not a high quality texture make. At least not with any consistancy. You can have crappy quality selvage, great quality selvage, crappy quality non, and amazing quality non. Just having selvage doesn't really gaurantee anything about quality inherently...

True. Crappy cotton still makes a crappy denim, selvedge or not. Speaking of GAP, they actually had some nice stuff when they first came out with the 1969 collection. I have a pair of one wash from back then. It's really beautiful denim.

[coleslawyum]

What do these wallets have to do with this thread?

[Geowu]

The starter of this thread has a point in that the mass-market companies advertising selvage will be delusioning the consumers into thinking they are buying something with the quality of the real old selvage jeans, when actually they will probably just be buying the same mass-market jeans with a fancy selvage edge. The fact that selvage "doesn't mean quality" can be found on many old topics here in Supertalk.

GAP has been doing selvage jeans for some years already an it hasn't had a big impact on the mass-acceptance of selvage jeans. Their selvage jeans are not bad.

So what really matters when it comes to judging jeans good or bad is not the selvage edge, though it could also count, but the quality, the subjective appreciation, the utility. A subject like this in this topic is good for keeping things into perspective. 60 years ago they had jeans good as the ones we in Supertalk wear, and it was no big deal, it was cheap work-wear. So, what has changed since then?

[swisloc]

People in a certain "scene/in the know" about some product or music always tend to get pissed when their secret gets out to the masses, the product gets mainstream heat etc. I think its healthy, like evolution of products, sound whatever. When something blows up it pushes new things to happen.....new fresh ideas from the underground. Carry on.

best point yet by far... this is how the shit storm we call "fashion" works. it's called progression.

[whorishconsumer]

My friends were at some party and some douche was talking about how everyone's jeans were crap because they weren't selvedge. Then he attempted to blow fire indoors, but, being the dumbass he was, spit a stream instead of spraying and caught the bed and this chicks face on fire.

Moral of the story: shove it up your ass.

[blm14]

So, what has changed since then?

Levi-Strauss made a pact with the devil and daringly conspired to destroy all but a handful of narrow looms and sold them to japan, the land of obsessive collecting. The rest is history.

[moykky]

Selvage denim is just good material to make jeans (and some other clothes) but then again it's just...denim. I couldn't care less if all the jeans were made from selvage denim. Selvage denim itself can be shit or the cut can be shit.

I get really annoyed when people are talking about potatoes. Here in Finland potatoes are same as rice in japan. We have all kinds of different ones and some ignorant foreigners treat them all the same

[denimdestroyedmylife]

first, this thread is awful.

second, geowu makes the most salient point. the unfortunate thing about all this is that selvage is no longer an indicator of quality.

[almondcrush]

and for those who say its "just jeans" get off this f'n forum. We are all here because denim means more to us than your average joe.

i can't tell you how long i've been waiting for someone to say this

ringring, you'd better get the fuck out!

just imagine that shit that would fly if you guys had something important to worry about

sf lurkers would win world war three

you'd just need to convince them that the enemy forces were bent on outfitting the olsen twins in pure blue japan

then they'd come at them with so much holier than thou you'd think it was the crusades

the opposition would have no choice but immediate mass suicide