Vintage Denim?

[shredwin_206]

On 5/1/2026 at 10:38 AM, Dr_Heech said:

Don't think they're for sale mate, maybe Freewheelers will repro them one day?

here’s the FW 1922. It was a very limited run a while back. Not sure which of the 8 this is based on  

Edited May 4 by shredwin_206

[Dr_Heech]

13 minutes ago, shredwin_206 said:

here’s the FW 1922. It was a very limited run a while back. Not sure which of the 8 this is based on  

Remembering Duke's posts, l think these are based off of the pair #7 in the 501XX book which is also (conveniently) the possible 7th variation of the 1922 model.

If FW bring those out again,  all they have to do to make them the same as the 8th variant, is just restitch the centre back middle beltloop and bingo! 😁

[Dr_Heech]

Levis Vintage Clothing 1920s 201 made in usa in 2000, so 23 years old. Not at all vintage to me but more importantly a fairly accurate repro of the Levis budget Lot No.2 jeans, although more likely a 1935 or 1936 model 201 (see details in next post) as l have yet to see an original pair 201 with that briefly used back rear centre belt loop feature. 

Lovely cut, closer fit on the top block with a typical 20's/30's silhouette and made out of a beautifully milled Japanese denim.

 

 

One thing l noticed was the proximity of the back pocket to the yoke, it's very close to the yoke and belt loop; Normally there would be a little more space and parallel to the yoke. Still, not complaining, as even with the poly stitching, they seem like a sturdy pair of potential future garden jeans to me.

Edited May 21 by Dr_Heech

[Dr_Heech]

 

^Post 1928 as these have a bar tack under the back rivet, chainstitched hems (yes l know l know) and blue line selvedge ID...

Edited May 14 by Dr_Heech

[Dr_Heech]

 

They have branded fly buttons so post 1927 plus a view of the bartack from the inside. Inaccurate jean-weight beltloops and four buttons on the fly, which didn't happen until the 1937 model.

Edited May 14 by Dr_Heech

[Dr_Heech]

Another thing l have noticed about the Valencia Street factory produced 201's, in both the late 1999 and early 2000 batches, was that the cinch strap isn't centrally placed, but in fact sits more to the left (just check the rivet alignment). Also the cinch buckle isn't even that - so l have one l cut off my warehouse 1922 (1927) model, which is a repro Solide. Hopefully get that sorted via Soas at some point soon.

 

Edited May 15 by Dr_Heech

[shredwin_206]

apparently this guy on Reddit found these folded up in a box in an attic on his property and he was trying to determine value. 

[ATWM]

^First pic I thought it was just an update on your latest pair 

[Dr_Heech]

Never seen a 1940s type 1 with a single sided tab sewn in upside down, so thought l'd share -

 

[Sympathy-For-The-Denim]

I recently acquired these Levis 517 Saddleman Boot Jeans at a - if they are legit - very reasonable price.

Thing is, the feature everything of an original pair such as the flashers, the talon zip and all the details, but few things let me think:

- the inside care tag looks like being made from polyester and reads max. 8% shrinkage which is a lot for a pair that claims shrinkage control. The other NOS pair I own features the paper/cotton like tag which you can find on almost every pair from 1970s and says max. 3% shrinkage.

- the leather like patch is closer to the center, normally it should touch the right belt loop

- the super narrow back pockets

- the position of the red tab is quite low

still I am somewhat sure they are legit and maybe had been made in a factory that didn´t produce as many as other factories therefore pairs of the origin are rarely to be seen?

And sorry for the bad picture, these haven't arrived yet.

Edited June 26 by Sympathy-For-The-Denim

[NilsLW]

The font on both the patch and wash tag do seem a bit suspicious, but on the other hand I've never seen anything but 501 fakes, never 517s..

[PBTony]

Picked up this Levi's Type 3 long version with no hand warmers and pretty chuffed with it. Not fully sure if this is late 70s or 80s. Reading contradicting info online. The buttons are stamped 52 and the label is blank on the other side. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[Dr_Heech]

@PrettyBoyTony l believe most usa made Type 3 jackets were made at one of the El Paso factories, with button -back numbers all starting with 52 (52, 524, 525 and 527 +?). 

There is a period of time when the denim used is a bulkier/fluffier version of the sanforized denim previously used. Combine this with the lack of handwarmer pockets and you have a jacket that was made somewhere between 1979 and 1983, in El Paso, Texas 🙂 

[PBTony]

2 hours ago, Dr_Heech said:

@PrettyBoyTony l believe most usa made Type 3 jackets were made at one of the El Paso factories, with button -back numbers all starting with 52 (52, 524, 525 and 527 +?). 

There is a period of time when the denim used is a bulkier/fluffier version of the sanforized denim previously used. Combine this with the lack of handwarmer pockets and you have a jacket that was made somewhere between 1979 and 1983, in El Paso, Texas 🙂 

Thanks @Dr_Heech ! appreciate the info 🙏

[Dr_Heech]

On 7/14/2026 at 3:57 PM, beautiful_FrEaK said:

Something l've wanted an answer to for a long time, and that is - What do the A, S, F (and the rarer 'l' stamp) signiify on vintage 60's Levi's 501 patches?

The original ASF theory, which has been around for c.30 years was based on the idea that Levis 501 patches were given a quality letter of approval stamped in black ink on the patch, usually visible above the lot 501 stamp: A standing for the top quality, S standing for Satisfactory and F standing for Failure. Had to borrow this pic from a post BF put in the Denime thread as googling anything these days is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

I thought that this theory was probably the best explanation. The only flaw in this theory for me was that there were many pairs from this era that didn't have these letter stamps on their respective patches, plus the added fact that you would find pairs with different factory numbers or letters with these stamped-patches making it impossible to determine their meaning or origin. For example, most pairs with an F stamp on the patch weren't Failures at all, just regular 501's. And then there was the rare 'l' stamp, something l've only ever seen on images but can't locate one at present. What did that stand for?

Well apparently before the company's introduction to a fully computerised system c.1970 these stamps were Distribution centre initials. Factories across the States were at full steam during the 60's and had no more room to store finished garments, so Distribution centres were created to solve the storage problem. So 3 centres : Amarillo (TX), San Jose (CA) and Florence (KY) with the I stamp standing for (possibly) international, when Levi's jeans were first being distributed across to Europe. This theory must be credited to @Denimseeker but makes perfect sense to me. Also to add weight is the fact that you only find pairs made in the 1970's and early 80's with IRREGULAR stamped either on pocket bags or patches, but nothing earlier, gives the impression that there was a more simplified approach to quality control by that time. 

Anyway, don't want to rabbit on forever. I'm not promoting anything here, but if you want the full storie(s) and your still on instagram, follow Denimseeker - it's a great read and for me it's a mystery solved. 

 

 

Edited October 2 by Dr_Heech
To edit

[Dr_Heech]

On 8/18/2026 at 8:48 AM, Dr_Heech said:

Always wondered about the actual Lee 101 timeline as it always seems Lee, as Levis main competitor, was ahead of the curve right from the beginning when it came to innovation...

...l'm going to see if l can put together a more accurate timeline of prewar Lee jeans so (hopefully) l will come back with a few more answers. 

 

On 4/18/2021 at 7:37 AM, Dr_Heech said:

 

^^putting this here instead as it's not Lee repro but vintage lee only.

^This selection of images of vintage denim jeans from the late 1910's through to the 1930's demonstrates how ubiquitous the Levi's style arcuate had become and how blasé Levi's seemed to be about it being counterfeited (don't forget, it wasn't until 1946 that LS&Co decided to get the design finally trademark registered). This is just a small selection and doesn't include bigger, more competitive brands like Boss of the Road, Can't Bust em, Penny's Foremost or Montgomery Wards for example. 

When the H.D. Lee mercantile company quietly launched their new 101B Cowboy pants in 1924 or 1925, they blended right in with the crowded marketplace at that time, but their product wasn't a pair of generic denim work pants that could be used for just labouring, logging and mining etc - it was a product aimed specifically at The horse rider and the cowboy market in general including strong links to early Rodeo.

Quick history: H.D. Lee's testimony to innovation came after their initial introduction to the workwear scene with their 11W model waist overalls in 1911 - Lee's  new Union-Alls (coverall) introduced in c.1914 and were an instant success; ln 1921 they debuted their 91-J chore coat  made with 'new' Cone 818 jelt denim and in 1926 they introduced their matching 91-SB overalls with the famous 4 in 1 front pocket.

For fans of the Lee 101 Cowboy pants, they launched their matching 101-J Cowboy jacket in 1931 and also introduced their new budget lines, the lot 31 overalls (budget 91-SB) and Lee's 131 cowboy pants (budget 101B's) and around the same time Lee solved the problem of back pocket rivets scratching leather saddles and automobile seats by applying heavy bar-tacking there instead in the style of an X (who needs hidden rivets?). Anyway let us start at the beginning and work our way up from there: Blue ribbon patch models...

 

#1

1920s earliest Lee 101B Cowboy pants (image from Paul T's book)

^If we take a  good look at this image, we can see that this model uses the early Blue ribbon leather patch, which is placed on the rear left hand side of the waistband. The label would have looked similar to this repro one of mine - 

The inside waistband label would be white background with red and/or blue stitched text,  usually situated behind the leather patch. It would have looked similar to this repro one - 

^^^Back to that image. The buckle strap ends are not dovetailed but straight/flat in shape and have a brass coloured buckle. The waistband has Two rows of stitching attaching it to the top block and the waistband buttons state "Union made by Lee'. Other buttons used on prewar Lee cowboy pants seem to range from Union made (only) , plain Long L Lee buttons and two types of Lee Cowboy one's, one flat, the other type are slightly concave. The back pockets have double arcuates which are single stitched but also a twin row of dark blue stitching going from side to side across the arcs which hold the back pocket linings in place. Lee back pockets have always been half-lined in white cotton drill, another innovation to help with wear and tear (Wrangler did the same thing with their 11MW in 1948). The only other version of this model that l've seen was a video some years back of a guy in Canada showing us the zipper fly model (101Z) which was identical albeit for the Hookless Talon zipper, with the extra hidden snap button above that, as the zipper didn't lock so the snap went over the zipper-pull to hold it in place better. Below is a newspaper advert from 1928 which (if you click twice) you can see the two paralell rows of stitching along the middle of the back podkets as well as the levis style single stitch arcs. Also there's a small close up image of the inside of the fly with the hidden snap above it  -

 

#2

Circa 1931 Lee Cowboy pants (images from Paul T's book) -

^if we take a look at this image we can immediately see how cleaner looking they have become by this time with the dovetailed ends on the riveted buckle strap, the removal of the back pocket rivets and the shape of the pocket no longer imitates the levis one, instead Lee opted for a more shield shaped back pocket and the arcuate has become more stylised, flatter and less extreme than before which helped eliminate the need for the extra two rows of stitching as now the newly shaped flat arc held the lining in better. Remember that Lee still used single stitching until c.1936.

So they still have the early Blue ribbon leather patch and the early inside white tag described earlier. They still have twin stitched waistband and waistband suspender buttons, along with triple stitched seams as before. I have 2 repros of this model, images are in the Leepro Appreciation thread.

Not sure how long this model lasted or what changes came next but my next post will have more questions than answers, that's for sure. 

 

 

Edited October 23 by Dr_Heech
To edit/add stuff

[Dr_Heech]

 

Following on..

At first l thought the next logical step in the Lee cowboy time line would be the famous Lee 101 'Triple name' cowboy pants, like the following two examples, which l believe were introduced in the early -mid 1930's? The triple name comes from the jeans having the Blue ribbon leather patch, the inside label (white with red/blue or black with red/gold) and the new Hair on hide leather patch, so three ways of identifying the Lee name. They must have been short lived models as these are the only two examples I have seen -

 

Earlier White label model Triple name 101B, still sporting the suspender buttons -

 

Later Red label model Triple name 101B with no evidence of suspender buttons -

^These models are where the older style, Blue ribbon patch Cowboy pants cross with the later, Hair on hide Cowboy pants. Both similar, albeit that the earlier white label pair says Guaranteed Shrunk rather than Sanforized Shrunk. They both have attributes from the second pair in the previous post (#2) , twin rows of stitching attaching the waistband to the top block, no back pocket rivets, Union Made Lee Sanforized Shrunk on the inside label, which is still placed on the left behind the Blue ribbon leather patch but also on the right side of the waistband, there's the first Lee Hair on hide patch,  Dovetailed ends on the riveted buckle strap and have flatter, more stylised arcuates which hold the pocket linings in place without the necessity of the extra two rows of dark blue stitching. Seems fairly straight forward so far doesn't it?

Below, a selection of the anomalies in the Lee time line which l'm having difficulty placing - Edit, placed  all of them.

 

#1

Are these another 1920's pair? They look like it: look like Lee (can't see for sure?) cowboy suspender buttons, buckleback strap has earlier non-dovetailed ends, offset belt loop at the centre rear(?), exposed plain back pocket rivets with twin row of stitching holding the pocket linings in place plus crazy levis-esque arcs as well (think these are the pair that Warehouse repro'd and Shredwin has a pair?) but don't have two rows of stitching attaching the waistband and the patch shadow just looks like a right placement only, but stitching looks like it held a cloth patch, so not Hair on hide(?) yet no evidence of an inside label anywhere on the back of the waistband. Strange and certainly needs more detailed shots to determine authenticity. 

Edit: l now believe these to be early 131 cowboy pants, so the budget version. They obviously have exposed back pocket rivets, but also no Lee sanforized Shrunk inside label, the remnants of (what l suspct to be) a cloth patch, as the stitching would have disappeared if it was a Blue Ribbon or Hoh patch. The back panels are the opposite of the premium Lee 101B Cowboy pants. Off set centre belt loop, like the budget version. And now thanks to new (to me)  info and images, l can confirm they have triple stitched outseams, so budget 131 model, not 101B model. Suspender buttons are marked Lee Unionalls, a generic (and obviously budget) overall staple button. 

 

#2

Are these a boys version of the #2 pair from the previous post? Look to be the same apart from no suspender buttons and a red label rather than a white one..

EDIT.. they are a boys hair on hide model c.1935/36?

Details...

 

 

#3

This unique pair with just a Union Made button, have twin waistband stitching, Lee sanforized Shrunk in red and gold, though more importantly Centrally placed, dovetailed ends on the riveted buckle strap and arcs look double stitched but not stylised as later models yet not as extreme as earlier ones. Patch placement seems to be right hand side of waistband so early Hair on hide model

 

And lastly #4

This pair has similar details to the above pair including centrally placed inside red/gold label, have a flatter single stitched arc and the waistband shows that the patch is placed to the right rather than the left so Hair on hide. The Japanese magazine states 1936-1938 but l don't think it would be older than 1936 as twin needle stitching seemed to appear around that time on Lee cowboy jeans.

 

Edited September 26 by Dr_Heech
To edit/add stuff

[Dr_Heech]

Hair on hide patch Lee 101B Cowboy pants.

^If we take a look at the last two pairs in the above post (#3 and #4) we can see some key detail changes from the triple name model which make me think they are also Hair on hide models but early versions. Firstly, the evidence of leather patch placement (on the right side of the waistband), the centrally placed inside red/gold label and most importantly, the yoke is no longer overlapped as before. If we take a look at the arcs on pair #4, it is what l believe to be early twin needle stitching. New sewing innovations meant newer construction techniques. Around this time Lee first mentions their U shaped cotch on the jeans  - for more comfort whilst sat in the saddle. It is difficult to say with any certainty when exactly the twin needle stitching was being used by Lee, but it was certainly there by 1938.

#1

Below is the deadstock Lee cowboy pants from Boon Extra vol 1

^Straight away we can see that there are many changes: the jeans now have a single chainstitched waistband, the word Shrunk is removed from the inside label,  so now just reads Sanforized, Theres now an added size/info label attached to the Hoh patch, and most noticeably are the twin needle arcs with the 'diamond ' stitch in the middle on the back pockets. Don't forget,  Levi's only trademarked registered their pocket design in 1946/7 so it was still being used by many manufacturers in 1938.

^close up of pocket hang tag illustrating Lee's core values. Ever since 1927, the name Lee was synonymous with American frontier traditions.

Of the all the images and info available to me at my disposal,  there are literally no real construction or detail changes that l can find with Lee cowboy pants made between c.1938 and the introduction of the war model in 1942. 

 

#2

The pair below, a well worn pair, show the Hoh patch to be worn away,  so less hair - at first l was thinking that there was more than one type of Hoh patch but now realise that it is not the case. They are the standard 1938-42 model.

 

#3

This unique pair below have what looks like iron rivets, which are also unmarked - not like regular lee rivets which are stamped with LEE. Maybe a prewar model?

 

#4

This youth's pair look to be sporting an earlier, centrally placed Housemark tag in blue and white - looks eerily similar to the 91-SB overalls label of the time. 

 

1939 advert, great details including Lee ' jumpers' - another word for denim blouses  ..

^Lee's binding guarantee on Pants and Jumpers: Better in every way or a new pair free!

Below. Interesting to note that by this time Lee were ahead of the curve sales wise (courtesy of Paul T)

 

Victor Ario catalogue 1939 also mentioning matching Cowboy jacket 101J and for Winter's cold, blanket lined 101-LJ Alaskan lined jackets ...

 

And finally pair #5

This is the (fairly) recently discovered deadstock pair of 1940-42 Lee 101B Cowboy pants which tbh don't look much different from the 1938 pair. What they do have, however is this beautiful pocket hang tag which again,  demonstrates Lee's links with Rodeo -

 

 

Advert from Dude Ranch magazine 1941.

 

That's all for now

 

Edited September 26 by Dr_Heech
To edit/add stuff etc

[Dr_Heech]

So in conclusion, for me at least, there are roughly five main models of the Lee 101B Cowboy pants:

1. Early blue ribbon leather patch model with back pocket rivets (c.1926-30?)

2. Later blue ribbon leather patch model without back pocket rivets (c.1931-33?) 

3. Triple name model with both types of leather patch (c.1934/35?)

4. Early Hair on hide patch model (c.1935-1937?)

5. Later Hoh patch model (c.1938-42?)

I haven't researched the buttons or rivets in any depth really as there's not enough pairs to reasonably dissect and not enough detail in the images as they are too small. There are early brass colour buckles and there are cheaper looking, wire buckles,  but no continuity in the time line. Selvedge looks to be half blue-line selvedge then full blue-line selvedge, then white selvedge but it's all guesswork. Anyway,  it's a start.

I will happily update and add to the above posts if anything interesting comes my way. Hope you enjoy.

Edited August 29 by Dr_Heech
To edit

[Dr_Heech]

Not sure of these images are sharp enough to see in any detail but lovely old factory photos showing finished pairs, pinched from the interweb -

 

 

[Dr_Heech]

Bored so just for shits and giggles - apart from the c.1935 pair in the 501XX book, here are all the nos Levi's 501XX Copper Riveted inscribed leather patches from c.1935-1942.

 

1935/36 Last exposed rivet model 

 

Early 1937 1st hidden rivet model

 

Late 1937 

 

Crappy image l know, but 1941 model

 

1942 last buckleback pre war model (both pairs)

 

Edited October 4 by Dr_Heech
To edit/add stuff

[alpharikk]

Amazing yet unusual piece, a Levi’s sample made for the Japanese market, with the J09 button (or what people usually refer to as “pre-LVC”).

Pretty happy to have picked this one up, as it’s definitely a very unusual piece.

From what I can tell, this is a Levi’s sample made with a 1950s-era cut, but featuring details from the 1930s. You can see it from the arcuates, as well as the crotch construction, instead of being bartacked, it uses rivets.

This piece was released in 1999, and I’m pretty confident that it’s authentic. The hardware, fabric, and even the thread selection are all consistent with what Levi’s used on their Japanese releases from that era, the kind of details we usually see with the J22 button on jackets and J09 on jeans.

Really interesting piece, especially considering it sits right in that transition period before the LVC era really took shape.

[Dr_Heech]

Lot 502SXXEEE store display jeans size 76x45

Edited September 13 by Dr_Heech

[TripicalMidbooster]

For FW99, Martin Margiela and his team overpainted jeans and denim jackets in black and white, the house's signature color. Painting the surfaces of denim garments was a motif Margiela returned to throughout the 90's; he had been doing it since his time when he was a student and couldn't afford leather pants so he coated his Levi's in black paint. Margiela and his team would collect and paint denim they found at flea markets, and most of the jackets they produced were Levi's type 3s. This jacket which recently got listed for auction is special not only because it's a Wrangler jacket, but a selvedge one at that. I'm not enough of a true Wrangler fan to date it off the top of my head, so I wanted to share it here. 

[reallypeacedoff]

How much it go for? Always loved Margiela (and by extension, the rest of the Antwerp group) the most of all the high end fashion houses.

[TripicalMidbooster]

15 hours ago, reallypeacedoff said:

How much it go for? Always loved Margiela (and by extension, the rest of the Antwerp group) the most of all the high end fashion houses.

The seller is in Japan and asking four figures-- maybe to just show off.

[Dr_Heech]

Going back to the mystery 1920's so called Lee cowboy pants l posted above, l managed to screenshot these from a collector who posts his amazing denim on lg (of course he had a pair of these!) So this is only the second pair l've ever seen 

But the details here helped me solve the mystery. The suspender buttons are not marked with what we normally expect, but in fact Lee Union-Alls, which is what we normally find on the 131 and other budget models. The triple stitched outseams, the non existent inside Lee Sanforized Shrunk label or evidence of (?) and the remaining patch stitching on the wrong side (and poorly placed) but no patch (so likely a cloth patch - lot 131 model again). Offset centre belt loop which only appears on 131 models not 101 models  - super crude arcs are not as well stitched as the 1920s 101B Cowboy pants but they still have the twin straight set of stitching going across the pocket from side to side which holds the pocket lining in place. Strangley the back panels are the opposite to the Cowboy model of the time also, not sure what that signifies but it is another detail that is different. Maybe new factory workers were trained on the 131 models, the crude/uneven arcuates and the Offset centre belt loop could be evidence of this theory(?)

 

^budget button above and early Cowboy pants button below -

 

Any more info or detailed images and I'll glady update. Glad that's sorted as it was messing with my head and my previous posts about the Lee 101B cowboy pants time line 🙂

Edited October 8 by Dr_Heech
To edit/add stuff

[Dr_Heech]

Not often you see a split back Levi's Type 2 jacket so l thought l'd share (pinched from Hundredbuyers 

[silencejoe]

That's interesting! I always thought big size Levis Type II jackets added fabric strips on both sides, but this is the first time I've seen a T-Back Type II.

[Dr_Heech]

@silencejoe Hey there, yeah you're right, they normally added those side strips  because the loomed denim material wasn't wide enough to stretch so they added side strips on sizes (I think) 44 and upwards, although it may have been 42 and up. The anomaly, as in this example shows a T back style,  like the 506XX before it - and like the 506's anomaly, which were one piece sleeve versions, the 507's anomaly is the split back. I'm sure in time, more will come to light(?)

Think Csf repro'd this model.