Shoes that look better with age...

[Dick Danger]

It’s not as simple as saying Wesco is better than Whites, both companies make great boots, and both use excellent materials. For me it came down to fit.

My first pair of real work boots was a pair of Whites Smoke Jumpers. At the time I loved them, they fit (sorta), and were tough as hell. Keep in mind, for me, if a pair of boots lasts 18 months I feel like I’ve gotten my monies worth. I have a low volume foot, so a boot that is long enough usually fits a bit sloppy.

I solved that with a visit to Spokane, to have my feet measured for custom fit boots. The custom fitting solved the volume problem, but I still had the arch to deal with. Whites have a very severe arch; even with custom fit boots I still had to deal with the arch. Every new pair had to be beaten down a bit to feel comfortable, even then I spent more time than I wanted thinking about how my boots fit. Having said that, Smoke Jumpers were my boots for almost 8 years; even with the arch issue I hadn’t found anything else to try.

I’d seen Wesco boots, but I figured since I was already wearing Whites it wasn’t worth the trouble to give them a try. It was an accident that I found my first pair of Wescos. This boot shop was having a going out of business sale and had a pair of Wescos in 12.5. They were a custom order that never got picked up, not custom cut, just a generic size 12.5. I was telling the owner about my boot issues, and he said I should give them a try. The generic 12.5 Wesco fit better the first time I put it them on than the custom Whites ever did.

That doesn’t mean Wesco is better, just different. I don’t know why, but the 12.5 last that Wesco uses fits my foot almost perfectly. The arch is in the right spot, the volume is just about right, and the heel width is perfect. Whites will make a 12.5 if you ask, and I’ve asked. The last they use is different; it just doesn’t fit my foot as well as the Wesco 12.5.

Ultimately that’s why I switched, Wesco boots simply fit my feet better than Whites. I think Whites use slightly heavier leather, but I don’t see much difference in the life of my boots. It doesn’t really matter what brand, if I wear the same pair every day they’re dead in 12-18 months.

I’d never say anything bad about the construction of a Whites boot; they make a great boot, I’m just not crazy about how they fit my feet.

As always YMMV.

[Chicken]

thanks for your valuable input, dick.

i'm wondering if white's arch support is for me either, but i'm going to put some time into my semi dress before i come to my conclusions.

but i'm pretty sure it won't take 8 years, though.

[fre-co]

thanks for the write up dick

[blake]

Is there a specific sock that you guys wear to break in tough boots (wesco, redwing, whites)? I have heard smartwools are great but I do not know which model is best. any recs?

[Dick Danger]

but i'm pretty sure it won't take 8 years, though.

yeah well....sometimes it's the devil you know vs. the devil you don't

Is there a specific sock that you guys wear to break in tough boots (wesco, redwing, whites)? I have heard smartwools are great but I do not know which model is best. any recs?

I love darn tough socks.

[GregNYC]

Dick - thanks for the detailed writeup. It's not too often that someone knows both premium companies's offerings so well. I look forward to my White's Smokejumpers - White's has my measurements and I'll order them this week. I like the way White's arches fit my feet.

Blake - I don't use special socks for breaking in boots. I don't mind the pain, and I'll work the leather with my hands and oil, or take to a shoe repair to have a tight spot punched out if necessary. But I can't wear wool, so with all shoes and boots other than running shoes, all year around I wear Gold Toe over-the-calf socks. 59% cotton, 40% stretch nylon, 1% spandex. I get no pooling at the heel, no slippage, no sweating and no cold feet!

moykky - Is there a layer of rubber or leather under the commando sole? If so, then the cobbler probably won't have to unstitch at the welt. And sometimes, they can just slice a layer off, and glue something new on, saving the welt. But if you like the leather or double-leather look, then they'll have to put that layer at the welt. I like how the soles look from the side too - you know, you're seeing maybe the hem of the jeans, maybe the rolled cuff, selvage, the toe/heel and leather layers on the sole. Cool!

[poly800rock]

is this old news?

shell cordovan indys?

I just got a regular pair of indys today.

[Chicken]

we've seen few shell cordovan indys around here, but i think they all had commando soles iirc. the ones you posted look like they have leather soles. sweet.

and welcome to the indy club. (on behalf of mr. ford.) can't wait to see how you beat them up.

[amlai]

On the topic of shell Indys, I guess it is time to post some evolution pics...

How they looked when I first got them (07/2007):

How they look now:

The best part is the waviness in the leather where the ankle flexes the boot:

If you look carefully, you can see the variation in the color of the shell, which explains the rarity of high enough quality shells for the lighter colors.

I've only been wearing these a couple of days a week lately. Too many shoes in the rotation. I'm still waiting on a pair in cigar (I guess only 4 months so far), which I think would look even nicer when broken in.

[Chicken]

okay so they weren't all commando soles.

but amlai those are coming along real nicely.

[jubei]

What I'm always surprised at is the price difference between a pair of cord boots and cordo dress shoes...

the price jumps up about 200 dollars between calfskin and cordo, but once you're there it's "only" about 25-50 dollars difference between a boot and a shoe. It would seem to me that you get a lot more material (and thus, in a sense, bang for your buck) with the boot at a "marginal" price increase.

I'm sure this is all due to how cordo is harvested and the amount of waste produced, etc. But still, interesting.

[theetruscan]

What I'm always surprised at is the price difference between a pair of cord boots and cordo dress shoes...

the price jumps up about 200 dollars between calfskin and cordo, but once you're there it's "only" about 25-50 dollars difference between a boot and a shoe. It would seem to me that you get a lot more material (and thus, in a sense, bang for your buck) with the boot at a "marginal" price increase.

I'm sure this is all due to how cordo is harvested and the amount of waste produced, etc. But still, interesting.

Yeah. I believe each shell (read "Horse's butt cheek") gives enough material for a shoe or boot, so a pair requires a complete horse's ass. Because there's not enough shell on either side for two shoes, it's only a little extra work, and no extra material costs.

[the_state]

is this old news?

shell cordovan indys?

.

wayr kan kop>?

[jubei]

^ leather soul hawaii

[grilled cheese]

First of all, I am compelled to say that I love this thread. Hopefully within the next couple of weeks I can post a few pics of my fleet of boots.

I have to be honest by saying that even though I have a great appreciation for high-end/artisanal shoes, I've never been attracted to shell cordovan. Perhaps I'm crazy, I don't know. Maybe it's because it's horse butt (as if cow butt is somehow better), maybe it's the color/texture, maybe it's my discomfort with the "stodginess" I associate with the old New England guys I grew up seeing wear them. I don't know what it is, but they just don't do it for me. Checking out this thread and seeing some of the ebay bonanzas that have occurred lead me to believe that I'm in the minority on this one.

Great thread, keep it moving.

[amlai]

Maybe it's because it's horse butt (as if cow butt is somehow better), maybe it's the color/texture, maybe it's my discomfort with the "stodginess" I associate with the old New England guys I grew up seeing wear them.

I can see how one might not like the Alden made shoes. They're not really built on the most elegant of lasts... usually more of a stodgy gunboat / tanker look to them. However, I find it hard to not like these two more elegant wholecuts:

Vass:

http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php?p=726768&postcount=12

Carmina:

http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php?p=684579&postcount=29

And then there are these Romano Martegani shell special orders:

http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php?p=741524&postcount=76

[mikesduc]

I can see how one might not like the Alden made shoes. They're not really built on the most elegant of lasts... usually more of a stodgy gunboat / tanker look to them. However, I find it hard to not like these two more elegant wholecuts:

Vass:

http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php?p=726768&postcount=12

Carmina:

http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php?p=684579&postcount=29

And then there are these Romano Martegani shell special orders:

http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php?p=741524&postcount=76

Looking at those shoes makes my heart weep with desire.

[nightdeposit]

and were moving...

i was just in alden to buy some shoes trees and thought i would try the indys on again, just to get a feel. well, i walked out with them under my arm, i couldnt resist.

theyre really nice, and quite a bit lighter than expected. the 4060's i have are heavier than these for sure. i love the rubber/cork sole!

i dont know if this has been mentioned in this thread or not, but anthony in the store was saying that in about 6 months, alden has a black indy coming out! very cool...

do other indy owners have the same thinsulate-like lining in theirs? i noticed that the aldenshop online store says its indys are lined with "cotton duck"

anthony in the alden shop said he didnt actually know if it was thinsulate or not...

[grilled cheese]

Yeah, bringing Vass' and Marteganis into this is almost unfair. There are certainly a fair number of shell shoes made on elegant lasts (the Vass U last isn't bad for sure). I won't argue that point.

In contrast to styleforum, I think people here are more concerned with the specific challenge of finding shoes (especially boots) that look good with jeans (as opposed to finding the best made shoe, period). And while I have a few pairs of Crockett & Jones and Edward Greens, I've never even considered wearing them with my Samurais or PBJs. It just wouldn't work--for me. I'd rather wear my Indys, Redwings, Gokeys, etc... That's the challenge for me--finding the right shoe to compliment the jeans I love.

[theetruscan]

Carmina shell is beautiful! (NOT MINE, sadly)

[jubei]

^ goodness, I think I just blushed!

[GregNYC]

I think any of these shoes can look good with jeans. I too like Vass's lasts, and think Alden's lasts are blobby and undistinguished even though I have 2 pairs of Aldens and no Vass's! I like shell cordovan shoes, but my favorites are always calfskin. As much as I dig the great shoe porn photos at Style Forum or Ask Andy, I hang out more here to talk about shoes because I prefer boots to shoes. And this thread rocks for that. And it jibes with something else I like - my own slant on boots is not what the banned guy says at all, but a mid-century nostalgia/military/workwear angle that is goes along with boots. You know, the kind of thing imaged so well by old movies, bell-ringing telephones, hot-lead typesetting, garish pulp cover art, old leather jackets, khakis, and selvedge denim. For the footwear side of that, this thread has it covered!

[Happy Hooligan]

I think any of these shoes can look good with jeans. I too like Vass's lasts, and think Alden's lasts are blobby and undistinguished even though I have 2 pairs of Aldens and no Vass's! I like shell cordovan shoes, but my favorites are always calfskin. As much as I dig the great shoe porn photos at Style Forum or Ask Andy, I hang out more here to talk about shoes because I prefer boots to shoes. And this thread rocks for that. And it jibes with something else I like - my own slant on boots is not what the banned guy says at all, but a mid-century nostalgia/military/workwear angle that is goes along with boots. You know, the kind of thing imaged so well by old movies, bell-ringing telephones, hot-lead typesetting, garish pulp cover art, old leather jackets, khakis, and selvedge denim. For the footwear side of that, this thread has it covered!

Amen brother...

[amlai]

i dont know if this has been mentioned in this thread or not, but anthony in the store was saying that in about 6 months, alden has a black indy coming out! very cool...

do other indy owners have the same thinsulate-like lining in theirs? i noticed that the aldenshop online store says its indys are lined with "cotton duck"

anthony in the alden shop said he didnt actually know if it was thinsulate or not...

I wonder if those are special makeups for the Madison Ave. store. If you like the idea of a black Indy, Tom at LeatherSoul has some black shell Indy's coming out. I'm tempted, but if the cigar ones eventually arrive and since I already have the regular Indy's and in #8, that might be a few too many to actually achieve any decent level of wear. I was originally thinking that I should collect all of them, but there seems to have been a sudden explosion in the available variations of the boot.

The regular 405 model Indys all have the cotton duck lining in them. Cotton duck is essentially just canvas. It is not thinsulate. Thinsulate is a synthetic material and the 405 model Indy boot predates the availability of this material. My shell Indys are leather lined though.

[amlai]

As much as I dig the great shoe porn photos at Style Forum or Ask Andy, I hang out more here to talk about shoes because I prefer boots to shoes. And this thread rocks for that.

The other great part about this thread is that it seems that people actually wear their shoes/boots and don't just stick them on a shelf like in a museum. I like that people actually post pictures of shoes that have been worn. I wish the shoe porn threads on the other forums would have pictures of shoes that have been lived in. I'd love to see some well worn EG's, Lobb's, Vass', etc.

[theetruscan]

The other great part about this thread is that it seems that people actually wear their shoes/boots and don't just stick them on a shelf like in a museum. I like that people actually post pictures of shoes that have been worn. I wish the shoe porn threads on the other forums would have pictures of shoes that have been lived in. I'd love to see some well worn EG's, Lobb's, Vass', etc.

I think it is about how people wear them. Many of those shoes are well worn, but they're worn every 2nd (or more) day, shoe treed every time they're taken off, and polished obsessively, so they don't age like boots here (I think).

[murdered out]

heres my contribution

[Calden]

I finally got to the end of this thread. That took a while, but it was definitely worth it. I only wish I would have taken notes. Now I have a few questions I'm hoping you experts can help me out with...

I'm looking for an elegant boot with a leather sole that isn't an ankle boot. I would like it to be able to pass as a dress shoe. I've seen a lot here that I really like, but I would like them to be a few inches taller. Crockett & Jones boots are probably the highest I've seen that aren't custom, but I would still like another inch or two more in height. The Tricker's that Headcoat posted in another thread (pic below) is exactly what I'm looking for. I know I could order them custom from the factory, but I'm not really sure how to go about it.

- Is there any store in New York that could help me order a custom pair? I'm very nervous about ordering a custom pair over the phone without a fitting or looking at lasts.

- Any other reccomendations for boots that are a couple inches taller than an ankle boot, have an elegant last, no scotch grain, and are plain toed? Is this asking way too much?

If I can't get fitted for a custom pair in New York and can't find anything else similar, I think I will pick up a pair of these calfskin Alden's from Leather Soul Hawaii. It's a pretty good plan b if you ask me.

I was also thinking about ordering these Dehner laced tank boots ($315) that are MTM for more of a work boot. I prefer the military aesthetic over the vintage workwear styled boots. I would have them made one or two inches shorter than the pic below. They have an option of calf leather or dragoon leather. What is Dragoon leather anyway. I just emailed them and asked, but wanted to ask here since I'm posting anyways. Also, anyone have experience with the overall quality of Dehner boots? Thanks in advance for any replies.

Dehner Laced Tanker

[lenn]

These Red Wings belong to my dad, i gave them to him in October when we went to Japan. He's wearing them pretty hard ever since and i'll just update you every once in a while on these

[beatle]

You´re a good son...and your dad treats them right....