Shoes that look better with age...

[LeatherSOUL]

No, thank you. I plan on eventually getting a pair of the cordovan Indys so you guys will be seeing me again.

Thanks again for the great deal.

This has nothing to do with shoes but i''m sitting in a movie theatre right now and the dumb ass three doors down national guard commercial is playing and people with popcorn need to learn to chew with their mouthes closed. Ugh!

Awesome, hope to see you at our new store, opening on the 29th.

[amlai]

Man, I'm starting to get a bad rep around here! Sorry guys!

I just want to say that Leather Soul has some of the best, if not the absolute best customer service I have ever received anywhere. Tom has always been extremely responsive to questions and has been a great help to many of us on the various forums. (He helped us put together an order for a run of a custom boot on the other SF.) I always look forward to any chance that I can get to do business with Tom and Leather Soul Hawaii. I highly recommend buying shoes, be they Alden, Edward Green, or anything else they carry from Leather Soul.

[GregNYC]

Yes, I recognize several of those photos

[GregNYC]

Finally got a chance to photograph my Corckett & Jones Villiers.

[Leonard Leroy]

oh lawdy i don' love myself sum high lace boots

[M4TM]

damn... i was just back home in hawaii, and didn't know about leather sole!! crap, if i had only read this thread earlier, i would have definitely dropped by to check out stuff...

oh well, next time i'm back...

[fre-co]

very very nice C&J Greg, are they in the hand grade line?

[GregNYC]

very very nice C&J Greg, are they in the hand grade line?

Yes, hand grade, 337 last. Had to be a special order since the NY store didn't have them in stock. The genius of C & J is that somehow that narrow, elegant last fits my wide foot just fine, while at the same time being the last that they use for most of their shoes. Wish the RW 1911s fit as well!

[cloudhands69]

After following this thread for a while, I realized I need to rotate the wear on my boots. I love my redwings and don't want to blow them out too quickly.

These are my Danner lineman boots back from when (you guessed it) I was a lineman. They were great for their job - big heel is good for gaffing and climbing ladders, fiberglass shank, goretex (portland weather), etc. I'm not sure how suitable they will be for my current job (retail/management/warehouse) as they are quite heavy. We will see.

Just gave them a shine so they're a little glossy. They've been in the closet for a few years!

with sufu660:

[mlproject]

Just got these, posted in recent purchases:

Nom de Guerre Russell Moccasin. These things are super comfortable and soft right out of the box. They are really light too, but sturdy and rugged. I couldn't be happier with them, hope they last me a long time.

does russell do a normal version of these in the same materials?

[mlproject]

There's another aspect I forgot - bicycles! I like track bikes, no brakes. Here's my website, lots of pictures. It will get lots of new stuff this spring:

http://oldskooltrack.com

do you have anything to do with NYC bikes?

[Chicken]

Yes, hand grade, 337 last. Had to be a special order since the NY store didn't have them in stock. The genius of C & J is that somehow that narrow, elegant last fits my wide foot just fine, while at the same time being the last that they use for most of their shoes. Wish the RW 1911s fit as well!

belated, but really sexy boots, greg. and yeah, i can't believe they look so narrow and they work for you. i have the same kind of width problem, so these are very interesting to me now. thanks for posting. looking forward to your indy and semi dress updates too.

[theetruscan]

belated, but really sexy boots, greg. and yeah, i can't believe they look so narrow and they work for you. i have the same kind of width problem, so these are very interesting to me now. thanks for posting. looking forward to your indy and semi dress updates too.

Be warned that your C&J mileage may very. I have to wear the 317 in a G width, the 337 crushes my wide foot.

[mlproject]

Bill - you have pm..sounds great..

info on these? :eek:

[GregNYC]

do you have anything to do with NYC bikes?

NYC Bikes, the dealer in Brooklyn? No, old skool track is a website and loose bunch of guys riding brakeless track bikes. I used to sell cool OST T-shirts, but they looked a little bit like the Harley logo so that the Levis thing happened to me too: Harley's lawyers threatened me with suit if I didn't take the shirts off the website.

[Bill2]

Just won these beauties on ebay... Will post more pictures when they arrive.

[Chicken]

nice pickup bill. looking forward to seeing more pics of cordovan patinas. your collection is becoming huge.

[Bill2]

nice pickup bill. looking forward to seeing more pics of cordovan patinas. your collection is becoming huge.

Yeah, I'm really curious to see what these look like in person. I'm also alittle unclear about whether these are true cordovan. They are clearly tagged shell horsehide, but is there specific tannage required to make cordovan cordovan, or is it merely a description of the cut of the hide?

[dave023]

Nice pick up Bill!!

[Chicken]

is cordovan supposed to be horse's butt?

so by them saying it's a shell horsehide and not cordovan, does that mean it could be another part of the horse?

like horse breast?

[amlai]

Just based on the creases, the boots appear to be horsehide instead of shell cordovan. Horsehide is supposed to be extremely hard wearing too, so it sounds like a great pickup anyways!

[amlai]

is cordovan supposed to be horse's butt?

Shell cordovan is specifically from the subcutaneous layer / membrane of a horse's butt. Anything else is not shell cordovan. However, other parts of the horsehide are frequently used for other things, such as jackets, holsters, and apparently occasionally boots. Horsehide was much more common before, such as in the '40s and '50s when more horses were used for agricultural purposes. However, now that fewer horses are used for those purposes, horsehide is rarer now.

[Bill2]

But the question remains....is "Shell Horsehide" the same as "Shell Cordovan"....typically all "Shell" hides are from the rump, and usually become shoes, while front quarter horsehide goes to companies like Aero for jackets and such...

Bottom Line: Horesebutt always equals cordovan? or..... Horsebutt plus special/specific tannage = cordovan

To further the question: I have personally seen Horween cordovan leather that did not have the high gloss sheen on it that is typically associated with cordovan in dress shoes from Alden etc.... To acheive that sheen requires a lot of buffing and finishing. What I saw was #8 in color, but was matte finish....It was unclear to me at the time whether the high polish is applied to the hide before cut&sew, or after a the finished shoe is completed...

Anybody with industry experience have any insight to share?

[Chicken]

man, interesting question. it does seem like "shell" means butt cheeks:

Genuine shell cordovan is rare. Most leathers come from cows, but cordovan comes from horses (which are not, by the way, raised for this purpose). The “shell”, and let me put this as delicately as possible, is the subcutaneous layer that covers the equine posterior. Each horse provides two shells, which is just enough for a pair of shoes. A single shell isn’t long enough to form a seamless belt, so genuine shell cordovan belts will always be pieced. The most non-porous leather known, shell cordovan is distinguished by its lustrous waxy finish, superior durability, and suppleness that readily conforms to the shape of the wearer’s foot.

Cordovan is a corruption of Cordoba, the city in southern Spain where the technique of tanning this leather originated. Even today high volume production and fancy technology are powerless in its manufacture. Old school handwork is what gets the job done. The shells are put through a natural, vegetable tanning process, then hand-stained, glazed, and finished over a six-month period that demands the measured pace of craftsmanship and patience.

It’s those things that account for the expensiveness of true shell cordovan leather. Added to which there’s only one tannery which still produces cordovan leather, Horween Leathers in Chicago. Coincidentally, Horween’s other claim to fame is providing the leather for NFL footballs and professional baseball gloves. Genuine shell cordovan is a leather with character. It’s known for taking on a rich patina that improves with wear and polishing. And tough as, well, a horse’s butt.

but so then what's the difference between shell cordovan and shell horsehide? i guess the technique?

[amlai]

Shell refers to the butt. However, the main difference between shell horsehide and shell cordovan is that shell horsehide is from the hide and not the subcutaneous membrane of the butt.

This is supported on page 10 of this:

http://www.scfirearms.org/TheDefender/Defender2003June.pdf

It says:

"A misconception exists concerning the differences in shell horsehide and cordovan... The shell is the part over the butt of the horse.... Shell horsehide is simply the preferred section of the hide, the strongest."

The use of shell horsehide appears to be a Wolverine specialty:

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Wolverine-World-Wide-Inc-Company-History.html

"By 1914, Victor's own experiments had resulted in a tanning process for "shell horsehide," a cheap, durable, but heretofore unworkably stiff section of hide taken from the horse's rear."

This makes sense as shell horsehide is used in holsters, where the leather does not have to be nearly as soft.

[LeatherSOUL]

Shell cordovan is specifically from the subcutaneous layer / membrane of a horse's butt. Anything else is not shell cordovan. However, other parts of the horsehide are frequently used for other things, such as jackets, holsters, and apparently occasionally boots. Horsehide was much more common before, such as in the '40s and '50s when more horses were used for agricultural purposes. However, now that fewer horses are used for those purposes, horsehide is rarer now.

Exactly.

To further the question: I have personally seen Horween cordovan leather that did not have the high gloss sheen on it that is typically associated with cordovan in dress shoes from Alden etc.... To acheive that sheen requires a lot of buffing and finishing. What I saw was #8 in color, but was matte finish....It was unclear to me at the time whether the high polish is applied to the hide before cut&sew, or after a the finished shoe is completed...

Anybody with industry experience have any insight to share?

When the shells arrive at the factory, they are not quite as shiney as the finished shoe. Alden does finish each shoe with wax polish before they go into the box.

[LeatherSOUL]

Shell refers to the butt. However, the main difference between shell horsehide and shell cordovan is that shell horsehide is from the hide and not the subcutaneous membrane of the butt.

This is supported on page 10 of this:

http://www.scfirearms.org/TheDefender/Defender2003June.pdf

It says:

"A misconception exists concerning the differences in shell horsehide and cordovan... The shell is the part over the butt of the horse.... Shell horsehide is simply the preferred section of the hide, the strongest."

The use of shell horsehide appears to be a Wolverine specialty:

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Wolverine-World-Wide-Inc-Company-History.html

"By 1914, Victor's own experiments had resulted in a tanning process for "shell horsehide," a cheap, durable, but heretofore unworkably stiff section of hide taken from the horse's rear."

A, you are the man.

[LeatherSOUL]

By the way, amlai, you wanna move to Hawaii and work at Leather Soul? I wish my guys had your love and knowledge.

[amlai]

By the way, amlai, you wanna move to Hawaii and work at Leather Soul? I wish my guys had your love and knowledge.

Haha... to be around all those wonderful shoes all the time? I'd love to, but I think my parents would kill me after having spent a huge chunk of my life in school learning to "pile it higher and deeper."

[Chicken]

this thread delivers.