Shoes that look better with age...

[polishmike]

Miz, do you think I should put vibram soles on my Alden Chukka boot? I'm getting them at the end of the month and was going to keep just the leather sole.

[LeicaLad]

Miz. Thanks for the details. I’ll admit that, in my mind, Vibram IS a commando sole. Or, at least, a type of commando sole. Is the Vibram sole model you’ve chosen lower in profile than the commando that Alden uses?

Perhaps, getting them with leather sole and changing to Vibram only once you’ve broken them in, is a smart idea. Of course, if so, it is probably smartest to begin with the leather soles in spring/summer so that you’re ready to swap up to the tougher sole as winter sets in, eh? In any case, I am also thinking that the better traction is the smart choice for all-around wear. And I AM an all-around wear kinda guy.

[polishmike]

I will also wear them all year long. I'm not sure if there are any disadvantages of putting the vibram soles on a used leather soles.

[LeicaLad]

Hmm. To clarify just a bit. By all-around, I mean that cordo boots can be worn with denim & leather jackets, chinos & tweed, or with a suit. Putting on Vibram soles after you’ve worn down the original soles (leather or otherwise) is clearly an option. And there are different models of Vibram, too. My question was inspired by the wonder of whether the commando sole that Alden uses is at all “too obvious†for dressier wear.

For context, my Grenson Ilkley boots are nice, and even modest efforts at polishing make them look really fine. BUT, that commando sole is pretty serious -- and obvious. I might well wear them with a suit, simply because I’ll wear what I want, but they are rather heavy “country†shoes in appearance to be considered actually “properâ€. (As noted, I generally don't give a rat’s *ss about “properâ€, but there ARE certain occasions when I prefer to do it “rightâ€.)

Thus, we chat about various options in our choice of sole, eh?

[mizanation]

yeah, polish mike, i'd wear the leather sole until you need to replace them. then replace with vibram (or cat's paw, which is owned by vibram now). who knows, you might like the leather sole better and want to keep it. it has a different "feel". a little more cushiony, which you might like better than a harder rubber sole.

leicalad, the "commando sole" is a lug sole. so, it's got a higher profile with deep indentions. from the side you can see the lug sole which is a little too casual for suit wear (in my case, which is on wall street).

the vibram sole i had put on my shells are not lugs. they have different thicknesses, but i went with one that is about 3 mm thick. it has treads which provide pretty good traction. from the catalog, i believe i have style 2337, which is the richard's unbuffed half sole, in black. next time, i think i will pick a different style that will give me a little more traction in the snow (but will still look ok with a suit, if possible)

if you go to the vibram site, they have a ton of different options for every imaginable application:

http://www.vibram.us/

you can download the catalog here:

http://www.vibram.us/pdfs/catalog.pdf

lots of good stuff in the catalog!

*EDIT*

the greek guy told me that vibram bought cat's paw but from what i see on the internet, it still might be owned by american biltrite corporation. it's still on their website (took me a long time to find this):

http://www.american-biltrite.com/Genprod/Products/Prod_Shoe.html

[mr. shivers]

does anyone know if the alden shop in san francisco sells the cap toe #8 cordovan boots?

[viv1984viv]

So ive been looking ( read drooling ) at pediwear.com recently. All of the shoes are gorgeous, and ive been looking at the shoe companys websites too, they are all full leather, goodyear welted, bench made in england etc etc

But browsing through pediwear ive jotted down the average price for a normal ( non premium line ) chukka or boot from each brand, these are not mean averages, but I just look at the range and think of the ballpark amount you should have in your wallet to buy from each brand. Heres what ive came to....

Trickers boots around £220

C&J £250 +

Barker £130 - £150ish

Grenson £150 +

Alfred Sargent £150 +

Loake tend to be around £100

why is this? I know this is a dumb question but if im already going to drop £100 on boots then an extra £50 for a great pair would be reasonable. Are the price differences for materials? brand prestige? Construction? Where the parts are made?

Is loake incomparable with C&J or are they all much of a muchness.....

[skalogre]

So ive been looking ( read drooling ) at pediwear.com recently. All of the shoes are gorgeous, and ive been looking at the shoe companys websites too, they are all full leather, goodyear welted, bench made in england etc etc

But browsing through pediwear ive jotted down the average price for a normal ( non premium line ) chukka or boot from each brand, these are not mean averages, but I just look at the range and think of the ballpark amount you should have in your wallet to buy from each brand. Heres what ive came to....

Trickers boots around £220

C&J £250 +

Barker £130 - £150ish

Grenson £150 +

Alfred Sargent £150 +

Loake tend to be around £100

why is this? I know this is a dumb question but if im already going to drop £100 on boots then an extra £50 for a great pair would be reasonable. Are the price differences for materials? brand prestige? Construction? Where the parts are made?

Is loake incomparable with C&J or are they all much of a muchness.....

Reputation: C&J have the upper hand. Probably for materials and construction also although Grensons should probably be also very good. A/S, Trickers & Barker are harder to quantify... some are good, some are not so good but I have no first hand experience.

Loake's better offerrings are under the 1880 line; my three pairs of Loake-made shoes (two under Charles Tyrwhitt's house label, one under their own label) are decent - at least two of them are - but the Grenson boots I have seem much better made with very nice leather.

I doubt anyone would put C&J near Loake in quality but they are much less expensive...

[viv1984viv]

thanks skalgore, but id still really like to know WHY.... I have my eye on grensons, loakes and barkers. I cant stretch to £200 for shoes, its just too much.

heres some shoe porn anyways.....

loake trapper

barker harrison, nice 37mm heel...

grenson chishome

[__3xL]

I got these because I wanted a pair of decent dress boots and the leather on them seemed really nice n buttery .. " italian leather " or deerskin I suppose

Just wanted something I could rock selvage denim and a cashmere blazer with on occasion .. I don't dress up too often so didn't need anything heavy duty and I have normal vibram soled boots n gore-tex for that ...

made in Italy by Jenny-B - never heard of them ... anyone familar ?

Since the leather seems top notch I HOPE they will age nicely .. ?

no one ever replied to me :-(

input please guys ?

[viv1984viv]

numero uno - its hard to know what the leathers like from photos, they look pretty unique and designy, I expect they would kill with black wool trousers and a shirt. You should post in wywt with them on!

EDIT - I think they would work with denim, slim black diors or black skulls or black PBJs, black somets, something black and slim.

[__3xL]

Yeah I have a few pairs of incotex and a pair of cashmere/wool 140's from zanella - but I wanna know what you guys think of them just eyeing them quality wise and would they work with denim in your opinions

[GregNYC]

Viv, I'd like to have some hard info, but most of those I haven't seen, so it's more or less speculation. From the stuff I've seen on Style Forum and AAAC, this list is pretty much in order of quality. Maybe move Grenson up a notch or three.

Boots are a different ranking than shoes. The makers differ, with the attention they put into them. R.M. Williams comes close to the top for Chelsea boots, and John Lobb of Saint James dropping down below where they'd score for shoes.

Do you have a chance to try these different brands on? I am getting interested in the brogued lace-ups that several of you posted. Leica perhaps in his chopper shot? And the Trickers.

And I think this here thread about boots is different from how they are regarded on the other SF. Folks here tend to go for more of a military, work-wear esthetic, primarily because of the denim angle, less so what's good with a business suit.

[GregNYC]

Synthi - how do you like your Skye's? I'm seriously thinking of these since I love C&J. The next thing after the White's!

Here's your photo

Or maybe the Trickers Stow (on the left):

Or maybe the Villiers, to borrow another of your C&J pics:

[Tarmac]

Viv, I'd like to have some hard info, but most of those I haven't seen, so it's more or less speculation. From the stuff I've seen on Style Forum and AAAC, this list is pretty much in order of quality.

Boots are a different ranking than shoes. The makers differ, with the attention they put into them. R.M. Williams comes close to the top for Chelsea boots, and John Lobb of Saint James dropping down below where they'd score for shoes.

the quality isnt something you can necessarily see from a 400x400 pic. In general the cheaper brands use more corrected grain leathers, lower quality hide linings, etc. I have tried on C&J and own Trickers, they are both a touch above brands like Loake, Barker, Cheaney, Grenson etc. Nothing wrong with any of them though, #100 shoes is nothing to cough at. The exchange rate is killer, I wish a US brand would make some decent brogues. If you want cheaper shoes just to see what this Northampton steelo is all about, get some from Herring.

[fattybfat]

Synthi - how do you like your Skye's? I'm seriously thinking of these since I love C&J. The next thing after the White's!

Here's your photo

Or maybe the Trickers Stow (on the left):

Or maybe the Villiers, to borrow another of your C&J pics:

those are such a beatiful boots:D

love the trickers:D

[fattybfat]

here is my poor man shoe, redwing 2143, worn almost for 2 years

[keyko]

....

Trickers boots around £220

C&J £250 +

Barker £130 - £150ish

Grenson £150 +

Alfred Sargent £150 +

Loake tend to be around £100

why is this? I know this is a dumb question but if im already going to drop £100 on boots then an extra £50 for a great pair would be reasonable. Are the price differences for materials? brand prestige? Construction? Where the parts are made?

Is loake incomparable with C&J or are they all much of a muchness.....

Viv, I would recommend Alfred Sargent. They are not as good as C&J for their dress shoes but their country range is extremely well-made. AS are bench-made, like C&J, as opposed to Loake and Barker. I am not sure about Grenson but they produce about 40% of their shoes in Portugal now, but mostly fashiony dress shoes (Featherlite line).

I've got C&J Chepstow and Chelsea 5 from Bodileys www.shoesnorthampton.co.uk, and John recommended AS country line boots as highly as C&J boots while fully admitting C&J dress shoes being superior in quality.

[HEWSINATOR]

IDK how I feel about those. Truly. I either love them, or well, don't. You all should feel honored that you just read my most useless post.

[viv1984viv]

Viv, I'd like to have some hard info, but most of those I haven't seen, so it's more or less speculation. From the stuff I've seen on Style Forum and AAAC, this list is pretty much in order of quality. Maybe move Grenson up a notch or three.

Boots are a different ranking than shoes. The makers differ, with the attention they put into them. R.M. Williams comes close to the top for Chelsea boots, and John Lobb of Saint James dropping down below where they'd score for shoes.

Do you have a chance to try these different brands on? I am getting interested in the brogued lace-ups that several of you posted. Leica perhaps in his chopper shot? And the Trickers.

And I think this here thread about boots is different from how they are regarded on the other SF. Folks here tend to go for more of a military, work-wear esthetic, primarily because of the denim angle, less so what's good with a business suit.

I only really have a chance to try barker and loake at typical highstreet places, I think there is a grenson shop in bham so I might check that out when I go back home. I really love the look of brogued boots but I think its a bit much for my style and age. Thats why im leaning more towards military or suede boots, im only young and dont really have a wardrobe full of suits so a more casual boot is better for me. This might all change when I leave uni - hopefully.

Leica's copper shot pretty much prompted me to check grensons out. Those do look amazing with his sugarcane jeans.

Viv, I would recommend Alfred Sargent. They are not as good as C&J for their dress shoes but their country range is extremely well-made. AS are bench-made, like C&J, as opposed to Loake and Barker. I am not sure about Grenson but they produce about 40% of their shoes in Portugal now, but mostly fashiony dress shoes (Featherlite line).

I've got C&J Chepstow and Chelsea 5 from Bodileys www.shoesnorthampton.co.uk, and John recommended AS country line boots as highly as C&J boots while fully admitting C&J dress shoes being superior in quality.

I read on AskAndy or SF or somewhere, that the rose collection of grenson is made in england but the rushden collection is made partly in portugal,that would probably be the 40%..... Alfred Sargent boots on a par with C&J boots?!?!? Thats something to keep in mind. Good god this area really is a mine field.

these are nice too - Alfred Sargent- Grasmere

£160 - same as the barkers I posted a page ago, id still really like to know what differentiates these boots from C&J, if these AS are on par with C&J perhaps the barkers would be of similar quality?

EDIT - SYTHI - wow your C&Js are amazing, great pictures.

[keyko]

I read on AskAndy or SF or somewhere, that the rose collection of grenson is made in england but the rushden collection is made partly in portugal,that would probably be the 40%..... Alfred Sargent boots on a par with C&J boots?!?!? Thats something to keep in mind. Good god this area really is a mine field.

£160 - same as the barkers I posted a page ago, id still really like to know what differentiates these boots from C&J, if these AS are on par with C&J perhaps the barkers would be of similar quality?

EDIT - SYTHI - wow your C&Js are amazing, great pictures.

Well, as GregNYC said, the criteria for quality of the boots and dress shoes are slightly different. C&J shoes are better than AS because the lasts are more elegant, the leathers are more finely tanned (antiquing techniques application etc) and finishing touches may be slightly more refined. On the other hand, boots, especially if you intent to wear them mainly with jeans, are meant to be worn outdoors and hard so they acquire their beauty in the process of natural wear rather than in the finishing touches of the bootmaker so the leather finish differences between C&J and AS are much less important for boots than dress shoes and criteria such as durability and suitability of the leather for hard wear come first. Both AS and C&J boots are bench-made to the highers standards of quality and only the top models of Loake and Grenson are bench-made. As for Barker, the guy who runs C&J shop on Exchange Square told me that Barker are not bench-made anymore.

[GregNYC]

im only young and dont really have a wardrobe full of suits so a more casual boot is better for me. This might all change when I leave uni - hopefully.

Wow, you've got great taste! I had no such taste for shoes at your age. Back at that time in college southern California I was into pimp clothes and surfer clothes. On the pimp side, it was 3" heels, two-tone wingtip bubble-toe platform pimp shoes, the kind of thing they make fun of now. On the surfer side, I can't even remember the shoes I wore. I think some kind of suede desert boot my mom got at Sears. But - I did wear old-skool 501s. It was many years ago, so they were still raw then! I have only one suit even now, and wear it once a year at the most! Not my style/lifestyle....

[mizanation]

familyman, i really like those redwings. i can tell you take good care of them.

hey i got a question.

if you could buy ONE pair of country brogues in london, which one would you get?

i am thinking go with the classic, the tricker's.

but, loakes looks really good and i saw some other really great options.

opinions?

[keyko]

^only Trickers at over J200 pricepoint. Loake, AS may be a cheaper alternative but Trickers are worth extra 50 quids.

[viv1984viv]

GregNYC - thanks, hopefully im slowly developing a style of japanese jeans and english shoes! Believe me, when I started uni I didnt even consider clothes, then I met my girl and she got me into shopping. As with most things in life I became very interested in clothes and their qualities and took things towards the nth degree. One term i was buying jeans at zara, the next I was sourcing selvedge on ebay, now im buying limited edition eternals *sigh*.... without wanted to get too deep I have really learnt that fashion/apperance is communication, alot of my friends pride themselves on not taking pride in their clothes but I cant help but feel that if you shave before a job interveiw, or say thankyou to busdrivers you should take some care in your apperance. Unless your a sociopath or a hermit you should just consider your apperance. If anyone knows any literature about this PM me.

Keyko - ( getting back on topic ) - wow, barkers are not benchmade? Does this count for the whole brand or just some of the cheaper lines? The international line is still priced liked loake and Alfred Sargent - if they are not benchmade its not the best value. If you here anymore from about this please chime on in...

[moykky]

if you could buy ONE pair of country brogues in london, which one would you get?

i am thinking go with the classic, the tricker's.

but, loakes looks really good and i saw some other really great options.

opinions?

Well, I would have to say Tricker's Stow in Acorn Antique color. Very nice with jeans. I have Malton which is same cut but heavier coarse calf leather. I would have bought Stow but at the time I wanted those "commando soles" and heavier leather.

[mizanation]

thanks guys, tricker's it is.

[tweeds]

speaking of loake, i've just discovered that a departmental store in town carries a range. should i go back for a second look?

in fact, since the place doesn't seem to be doing very well, perhaps they will discount some of their items...

[Tarmac]

hey i got a question.

if you could buy ONE pair of country brogues in london, which one would you get?

i am thinking go with the classic, the tricker's.

but, loakes looks really good and i saw some other really great options.

opinions?

I would go Trickers Stow, in Espresso, Dainite sole. which is what I have, hehe.

But its all about what its worth to you. Loakes, Cheaneys are going to be cheaper, at $500 vs $300, that might be a big difference to you. There are also many smaller makers you will see in London which are well under 150 pounds.

[LeicaLad]

Well, I would have to say Tricker's Stow in Acorn Antique color. Very nice with jeans. I have Malton which is same cut but heavier coarse calf leather. I would have bought Stow but at the time I wanted those "commando soles" and heavier leather.

I just want to say welcome back to Moykky! And, to say thanks for this kind of info which is bl**dy impossible to find on the web. Nowhere does one find details about different leather(s) used in the Tricker line. While I went with the Grenson Ilkley, I retain a very soft spot for the Tricker boots. Since the Malton would be too much like the Ilkley, knowing this about the Stow put them back into the consideration for the future.

Thanks, again.

Miz, we'll be waiting for complete details of your final choice!