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White's Horse Hide/Shell Cordovan group order

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hi davichan

unline the link would make u believe, this thread is for a Viberg group buy

for japanese Whites with horse leather, here are a few links (i will be very patient and wait for whites to make this available to outside japan as well)

http://www.genco-clothing.com/SHOP/WTSDSL-HHDB.html

http://www.genco-clothing.com/SHOP/WTSDSL-HHBK.html

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/topjimmy/whitsshh269/

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/topjimmy/whitsslhh/

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thanks so much for the info and links Slab. (must spread)

so funny why would japanese market preferring E sized lasts is weird to me? what is the size difference between D to an E?

damn these are looking pretty nice.

anyone know who is supplying the Horsehide to Whites to make these up?

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Horween I presume.

I don't think there are any other tanneries in the US producing commercial quantities. I guess you could view it as a side product of making shell cordovan!

I suppose it's possible they could be getting it from outside the US tho....

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so funny why would japanese market preferring E sized lasts is weird to me? what is the size difference between D to an E?

Asian's have wide feet.

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wetdreams are made of these: Horsehide version [in nailed-down+half-soles]__ a closer trim would make them even cleaner.

horseleather11.jpg

horseleather21.jpg

horseleather31.jpg

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new swatch of hh is on my way to me hope this will be it!

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hold on hold on sample not here yet!

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samples arrived today! in the office will post pictures tomorrow!

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black HH sample from vibergs came in. man these are something else.

theyre thick but pliable. and almost no pores in em tanning is great too its got that french calf shine innit

43e1183f.jpg

8d5d576b.jpg

aaea11fb.jpg

caf06f0d.jpg

78888637.jpg

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black HH sample from vibergs came in. man these are something else.

theyre thick but pliable. and almost no pores in em tanning is great too its got that french calf shine innit

43e1183f.jpg

8d5d576b.jpg

aaea11fb.jpg

caf06f0d.jpg

78888637.jpg

That is looking very nice. The shine is a nice touch, and it sounds like the grain will be great with some wear.

I'm just wondering, will it be dyed all the way through in the final product? I ask because I was hoping for the color to fade away to brown over time, and I don't know if it will if it's dyed black all the way through.

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yes this is green light so people who wants to join in finalize the list.

ill give everyone 2 weeks for to decide!

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That is looking very nice. The shine is a nice touch, and it sounds like the grain will be great with some wear.

I'm just wondering, will it be dyed all the way through in the final product? I ask because I was hoping for the color to fade away to brown over time, and I don't know if it will if it's dyed black all the way through.

Reposted. I just have to ask.

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ohnope the dye on these are all the way through mate check the underside picture

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ohnope the dye on these are all the way through mate check the underside picture

I saw that it was in the pictures, but I didn't know if the final product would be.

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i dont think so mate but i have a hunch that the middle core of this leather will have a touch of broown in them well see but its going to scuff the utter part first before well know that and i have another hunch these will not have "patina" in them but just creases

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i dont think so mate but i have a hunch that the middle core of this leather will have a touch of broown in them well see but its going to scuff the utter part first before well know that and i have another hunch these will not have "patina" in them but just creases

And even if it doesn't have some brown, it still looks like high quality horsehide. All in all, I think everyone will be pretty happy with it.

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im sure buddy these are high quality.. FH uses this same HH on theyre boots

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Ed,

What's the price on a pair like what you're getting.

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Can I join this group again?

updated the list:

1. demonito --- engineers, blach hh, double midsole leather natural color , 50's toebox, 10 " high, no lining , silver roller buckles, quabaug heel , cuban heel

2. Aquaphor - Service boot(slim new style), Black Horsehide, Single Midsole Natural finish, Vibram 705 sole, Cat's Paws Heel, Unlined interior, Cut Top, All antique eyes.

3. ADH92 - Size 11.5D - Engineers, Black horsehide, double leather soles with natural edges (1 piece for the midsole, 1 for the sole), 10" high, no lining, brass roller buckles, Cats Paw heels, Cuban heel, regular double stitch welt with white stitching, perforated heel counter and upper vamp

4. BrownMetallic: [***granted, no brown or natural HH available] 8.5EE :: 5" SERVICE boot :: WORK toes, Capped [w/ Celastic] :: BROWN Chromexcel uppers X TAUPE Bullhide counter :: SINGLE Midsole, NATURAL trim :: VIBRAM 705 half-soles + CAT's PAWs [Cuban heels] :: RED leather lining :: ALL Nickel eyelets

5. Pistol --- 8 inch engineer, black hh, Single Midsole Natural, Vibram 2021 sole(Sand color), 50's toebox, no lining, Rolled Top, pull strap on back, Brass roller buckle, no logo (if possible).

6. akiyama71--- size 8.5D 7 inch service boots with worker toe, capped toe, black horsehide,single midsole leather natural color, a smaller welt size or single stich, nickel eyelet with speed hooks and the top most to be eyelet, no inner lining, rolled top, pull tab, vibram 435 half sole with quabaug heel , cuban heel.

7. rayw44 --- Size 8.5D 10" Engineer boot, black horsehide, double leather sole in brown (1 piece for the midsole, 1 piece as a half sole), cuban heel, one extra heel lift, cat's paw heel, brass roller buckles, the new service boot last (as seen here http://vibergboot.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/clean-boots1.jpg but NO toe cap) w/50's toe (no reinforcement of any kind), smaller welt and 1 row of welt stitching (if possible), no lining, no pull straps, yes to logo (on the inside if possible), straps on top and bottom 2" longer, brown stitching on uppers (if possible).

8. Pwing-- size 10.5EE 155 smoke jumper,black hh,vibram 700 composition full sole and oil resisting heel

9. mctaran -- Service boot, 7oz brown mocha leather (like on the link), upturned toe, gunmetal eyelets and hooks, standart heel, natural edges, single leather midsole, vibram 269 sole, vibram heel, leather laces (x2 if possible), Exactly this boot but with eylets and hooks

http://www.wretch.cc/blog/cherryjuice/26584191

my size in RW GT and White's packers is 8D, guess will do some feet tracing to figure out viberg size.

10. bove 9.5 D, Engineer, 10", Black Horsehide, Double Leather Soles with dyed brown edges (1 piece for the midsole, 1 for the sole), Cuban heels, Cat’s Paw heels, One (1) extra heel lift, Brass Roller Buckles, last used on the Inventory oxford (the 110 last?) with no celastic (soft toe), Regular Double Stitch Welt with White Stitching, Instep Straps and upper straps two inches longer, no logo, Perforated Heel Counter and Upper Vamp like this: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1Sr7EddpqF...w/s1600/VB.jpg, No Lining

11. Mich US9.5 E, Engineer, 9" Black Horsehide with undyed edges and Brown Stitching throughout, No Lining, Rolled Top in different leather: Icy Mocha Chromexcel (just the roll), No Pull Strap, Double Leather Soles with natural edges and Cat’s Paws half sole (if the Cat’s Paws half sole is not possible just Double Leather Soles), Cuban heels with Cat’s Paw heels, Brass roller buckles, No Celastic (soft toe with low profile), The Last (and Heel) the same as on this boot http://vibergboot.files.wordpress.co...engineer11.jpg ,Regular Double Stitch Welt with White Stitching.

12. Onehundy US 9.5 D engineers, blach hh, double midsole leather natural color , Vibram 705 sole. 50's toebox, 9 " high, no lining , silver roller buckles, quabaug heel , cuban heel, Metal Toe plate.

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Thx fo samples Ed!

Leather seems great, so i changed mocha to hh, updated the list again:

1. demonito --- engineers, blach hh, double midsole leather natural color , 50's toebox, 10 " high, no lining , silver roller buckles, quabaug heel , cuban heel

2. Aquaphor - Service boot(slim new style), Black Horsehide, Single Midsole Natural finish, Vibram 705 sole, Cat's Paws Heel, Unlined interior, Cut Top, All antique eyes.

3. ADH92 - Size 11.5D - Engineers, Black horsehide, double leather soles with natural edges (1 piece for the midsole, 1 for the sole), 10" high, no lining, brass roller buckles, Cats Paw heels, Cuban heel, regular double stitch welt with white stitching, perforated heel counter and upper vamp

4. BrownMetallic: [***granted, no brown or natural HH available] 8.5EE :: 5" SERVICE boot :: WORK toes, Capped [w/ Celastic] :: BROWN Chromexcel uppers X TAUPE Bullhide counter :: SINGLE Midsole, NATURAL trim :: VIBRAM 705 half-soles + CAT's PAWs [Cuban heels] :: RED leather lining :: ALL Nickel eyelets

5. Pistol --- 8 inch engineer, black hh, Single Midsole Natural, Vibram 2021 sole(Sand color), 50's toebox, no lining, Rolled Top, pull strap on back, Brass roller buckle, no logo (if possible).

6. akiyama71--- size 8.5D 7 inch service boots with worker toe, capped toe, black horsehide,single midsole leather natural color, a smaller welt size or single stich, nickel eyelet with speed hooks and the top most to be eyelet, no inner lining, rolled top, pull tab, vibram 435 half sole with quabaug heel , cuban heel.

7. rayw44 --- Size 8.5D 10" Engineer boot, black horsehide, double leather sole in brown (1 piece for the midsole, 1 piece as a half sole), cuban heel, one extra heel lift, cat's paw heel, brass roller buckles, the new service boot last (as seen here http://vibergboot.files.wordpress.co...ean-boots1.jpg but NO toe cap) w/50's toe (no reinforcement of any kind), smaller welt and 1 row of welt stitching (if possible), no lining, no pull straps, yes to logo (on the inside if possible), straps on top and bottom 2" longer, brown stitching on uppers (if possible).

8. Pwing-- size 10.5EE 155 smoke jumper,black hh,vibram 700 composition full sole and oil resisting heel

9. mctaran -- Service boot, black hh, nailed down construction, upturned toe, brogue toe cap, brass eyelets and hooks, standart heel, natural edges, single leather midsole, vibram 269 sole, vibram heel, black leather laces (x2 if possible).

Exactly this boot, but with 269 vibram sole and heel, single leather midsole, eylets and hooks:

vibergboot.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/horseleather1.jpg

my size in RW GT and White's packers is 8D, guess will do some feet tracing to figure out viberg size.

10. bove 9.5 D, Engineer, 10", Black Horsehide, Double Leather Soles with dyed brown edges (1 piece for the midsole, 1 for the sole), Cuban heels, Cat’s Paw heels, One (1) extra heel lift, Brass Roller Buckles, last used on the Inventory oxford (the 110 last?) with no celastic (soft toe), Regular Double Stitch Welt with White Stitching, Instep Straps and upper straps two inches longer, no logo, Perforated Heel Counter and Upper Vamp like this: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1Sr7EddpqF...w/s1600/VB.jpg, No Lining

11. Mich US9.5 E, Engineer, 9" Black Horsehide with undyed edges and Brown Stitching throughout, No Lining, Rolled Top in different leather: Icy Mocha Chromexcel (just the roll), No Pull Strap, Double Leather Soles with natural edges and Cat’s Paws half sole (if the Cat’s Paws half sole is not possible just Double Leather Soles), Cuban heels with Cat’s Paw heels, Brass roller buckles, No Celastic (soft toe with low profile), The Last (and Heel) the same as on this boot http://vibergboot.files.wordpress.co...engineer11.jpg ,Regular Double Stitch Welt with White Stitching.

12. Onehundy US 9.5 D engineers, blach hh, double midsole leather natural color , Vibram 705 sole. 50's toebox, 9 " high, no lining , silver roller buckles, quabaug heel , cuban heel, Metal Toe plate.

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Btw. got a question:

What's better nailed down or stitchdown?

I believe what nailed down construction gives a closer trim, but what about durability etc?

Also is it possible to build 269 vibram sole (not half sole) with nailed down option?

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Ed,

What's the price on a pair like what you're getting.

Seconded.

I've been thinking whether I should be in with you or not but we need more info on the price and the delivery time.

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1. demonito --- engineers, blach hh, double midsole leather natural color , 50's toebox, 10 " high, no lining , silver roller buckles, quabaug heel , cuban heel

2. Aquaphor - Service boot(slim new style), Black Horsehide, Single Midsole Natural finish, Vibram 705 sole, Cat's Paws Heel, Unlined interior, Cut Top, All antique eyes.

3. ADH92 - Size 11.5D - Engineers, Black horsehide, double leather soles with natural edges (1 piece for the midsole, 1 for the sole), 10" high, no lining, brass roller buckles, Cats Paw heels, Cuban heel, regular double stitch welt with white stitching, perforated heel counter and upper vamp

4. BrownMetallic: [***granted, no brown or natural HH available] 8.5EE :: 5" SERVICE boot :: WORK toes, Capped [w/ Celastic] :: BROWN Chromexcel uppers X TAUPE Bullhide counter :: SINGLE Midsole, NATURAL trim :: VIBRAM 705 half-soles + CAT's PAWs [Cuban heels] :: RED leather lining :: ALL Nickel eyelets

5. Pistol --- 8 inch engineer, black hh, Single Midsole Natural, Vibram 2021 sole(Sand color), 50's toebox, no lining, Rolled Top, pull strap on back, Brass roller buckle, no logo (if possible).

6. akiyama71--- size 8.5D 7 inch service boots with worker toe, capped toe, black horsehide,single midsole leather natural color, a smaller welt size or single stich, nickel eyelet with speed hooks and the top most to be eyelet, no inner lining, rolled top, pull tab, vibram 435 half sole with quabaug heel , cuban heel.

7. rayw44 --- Size 8.5D 10" Engineer boot, black horsehide, double leather sole in brown (1 piece for the midsole, 1 piece as a half sole), cuban heel, one extra heel lift, brass roller buckles, the new service boot last (as seen here http://vibergboot.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/clean-boots1.jpg but NO toe cap) w/50's toe (no reinforcement of any kind), smaller welt and 1 row of welt stitching (if possible), no lining, no pull straps, yes to logo (on the inside if possible), straps on top and bottom 2" longer, brown stitching on uppers (if possible), nailed-down construction.

8. Pwing-- size 10.5EE 155 smoke jumper,black hh,vibram 700 composition full sole and oil resisting heel

9. mctaran -- Service boot, black hh, nailed down construction, upturned toe, brogue toe cap, brass eyelets and hooks, standart heel, natural edges, single leather midsole, vibram 269 sole, vibram heel, black leather laces (x2 if possible).

Exactly this boot, but with 269 vibram sole and heel, single leather midsole, eylets and hooks:

vibergboot.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/horseleather1.jpg

my size in RW GT and White's packers is 8D, guess will do some feet tracing to figure out viberg size.

10. bove 9.5 D, Engineer, 10", Black Horsehide, Double Leather Soles with dyed brown edges (1 piece for the midsole, 1 for the sole), Cuban heels, Cat’s Paw heels, One (1) extra heel lift, Brass Roller Buckles, last used on the Inventory oxford (the 110 last?) with no celastic (soft toe), Regular Double Stitch Welt with White Stitching, Instep Straps and upper straps two inches longer, no logo, Perforated Heel Counter and Upper Vamp like this: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1Sr7EddpqF...w/s1600/VB.jpg, No Lining

11. Mich US9.5 E, Engineer, 9" Black Horsehide with undyed edges and Brown Stitching throughout, No Lining, Rolled Top in different leather: Icy Mocha Chromexcel (just the roll), No Pull Strap, Double Leather Soles with natural edges and Cat’s Paws half sole (if the Cat’s Paws half sole is not possible just Double Leather Soles), Cuban heels with Cat’s Paw heels, Brass roller buckles, No Celastic (soft toe with low profile), The Last (and Heel) the same as on this boot http://vibergboot.files.wordpress.co...engineer11.jpg ,Regular Double Stitch Welt with White Stitching.

12. Onehundy US 9.5 D engineers, blach hh, double midsole leather natural color , Vibram 705 sole. 50's toebox, 9 " high, no lining , silver roller buckles, quabaug heel , cuban heel, Metal Toe plate.

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1. demonito --- engineers, blach hh, double midsole leather natural color , 50's toebox, 10 " high, no lining , silver roller buckles, quabaug heel , cuban heel

2. Aquaphor - Service boot(slim new style), Black Horsehide, Single Midsole Natural finish, Vibram 705 sole, Cat's Paws Heel, Unlined interior, Cut Top, All antique eyes.

3. ADH92 - Size 11.5D - Engineers, Black horsehide, double leather soles with natural edges (1 piece for the midsole, 1 for the sole), 10" high, no lining, brass roller buckles, Cats Paw heels, Cuban heel, regular double stitch welt with white stitching, perforated heel counter and upper vamp

4. BrownMetallic: [***granted, no brown or natural HH available] 8.5EE :: 5" SERVICE boot :: WORK toes, Capped [w/ Celastic] :: BROWN Chromexcel uppers X TAUPE Bullhide counter :: SINGLE Midsole, NATURAL trim :: VIBRAM 705 half-soles + CAT's PAWs [Cuban heels] :: RED leather lining :: ALL Nickel eyelets

5. Pistol --- 8 inch engineer, black hh, Single Midsole Natural, Vibram 2021 sole(Sand color), 50's toebox, no lining, Rolled Top, pull strap on back, Brass roller buckle, no logo (if possible).

6. akiyama71--- size 8.5D 7 inch service boots with worker toe, capped toe, black horsehide,single midsole leather natural color, a smaller welt size or single stich, nickel eyelet with speed hooks and the top most to be eyelet, no inner lining, rolled top, pull tab, vibram 435 half sole with quabaug heel , cuban heel.

7. rayw44 --- Size 8.5D 10" Engineer boot, black horsehide, double leather sole in brown (1 piece for the midsole, 1 piece as a half sole), cuban heel, one extra heel lift, brass roller buckles, the new service boot last (as seen here http://vibergboot.files.wordpress.co...ean-boots1.jpg but NO toe cap) w/50's toe (no reinforcement of any kind), smaller welt and 1 row of welt stitching (if possible), no lining, no pull straps, yes to logo (on the inside if possible), straps on top and bottom 2" longer, brown stitching on uppers (if possible), nailed-down construction.

8. Pwing-- size 10.5EE 155 smoke jumper,black hh,vibram 700 composition full sole and oil resisting heel

9. mctaran -- Service boot, black hh, nailed down construction, upturned toe, brogue toe cap, brass eyelets and hooks, standart heel, natural edges, single leather midsole, vibram 269 sole, vibram heel, black leather laces (x2 if possible).

Exactly this boot, but with 269 vibram sole and heel, single leather midsole, eylets and hooks:

vibergboot.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/horseleather1.jpg

my size in RW GT and White's packers is 8D, guess will do some feet tracing to figure out viberg size.

10. bove 9.5 D, Engineer, 10", Black Horsehide, Double Leather Soles with dyed brown edges (1 piece for the midsole, 1 for the sole), Cuban heels, Cat’s Paw heels, One (1) extra heel lift, Brass Roller Buckles, last used on the Inventory oxford (the 110 last?) with no celastic (soft toe), Regular Double Stitch Welt with White Stitching, Instep Straps and upper straps two inches longer, no logo, Perforated Heel Counter and Upper Vamp like this: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1Sr7EddpqF...w/s1600/VB.jpg, No Lining

11. Mich US9.5 E, Engineer, 9" Black Horsehide with undyed edges and Brown Stitching throughout, No Lining, Rolled Top in different leather: Icy Mocha Chromexcel (just the roll), No Pull Strap, Double Leather Soles with natural edges and Cat’s Paws half sole (if the Cat’s Paws half sole is not possible just Double Leather Soles), Cuban heels with Cat’s Paw heels, Brass roller buckles, No Celastic (soft toe with low profile), The Last (and Heel) the same as on this boot http://vibergboot.files.wordpress.co...engineer11.jpg ,Regular Double Stitch Welt with White Stitching.

12. Onehundy US 9.5 D engineers, blach hh, double midsole leather natural color , Vibram 705 sole. 50's toebox, 9 " high, no lining , silver roller buckles, quabaug heel , cuban heel, Metal Toe plate.

13. Snake US 9D Service boots, black hh, work toes with Celastic, single midsole natural leather, Vibram 430 mini lugs sole, quabaug heel, all antique eyelets, black leather laces, regular double stitch down welt.

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It pains me but i have to drop out due to unforeseen circumstances.

Just can't afford this purchase right now.

Here's the new list:

1. demonito --- engineers, blach hh, double midsole leather natural color , 50's toebox, 10 " high, no lining , silver roller buckles, quabaug heel , cuban heel

2. Aquaphor - Service boot(slim new style), Black Horsehide, Single Midsole Natural finish, Vibram 705 sole, Cat's Paws Heel, Unlined interior, Cut Top, All antique eyes.

3. ADH92 - Size 11.5D - Engineers, Black horsehide, double leather soles with natural edges (1 piece for the midsole, 1 for the sole), 10" high, no lining, brass roller buckles, Cats Paw heels, Cuban heel, regular double stitch welt with white stitching, perforated heel counter and upper vamp

4. BrownMetallic: [***granted, no brown or natural HH available] 8.5EE :: 5" SERVICE boot :: WORK toes, Capped [w/ Celastic] :: BROWN Chromexcel uppers X TAUPE Bullhide counter :: SINGLE Midsole, NATURAL trim :: VIBRAM 705 half-soles + CAT's PAWs [Cuban heels] :: RED leather lining :: ALL Nickel eyelets

5. Pistol --- 8 inch engineer, black hh, Single Midsole Natural, Vibram 2021 sole(Sand color), 50's toebox, no lining, Rolled Top, pull strap on back, Brass roller buckle, no logo (if possible).

6. akiyama71--- size 8.5D 7 inch service boots with worker toe, capped toe, black horsehide,single midsole leather natural color, a smaller welt size or single stich, nickel eyelet with speed hooks and the top most to be eyelet, no inner lining, rolled top, pull tab, vibram 435 half sole with quabaug heel , cuban heel.

7. rayw44 --- Size 8.5D 10" Engineer boot, black horsehide, double leather sole in brown (1 piece for the midsole, 1 piece as a half sole), cuban heel, one extra heel lift, brass roller buckles, the new service boot last (as seen here http://vibergboot.files.wordpress.co...ean-boots1.jpg but NO toe cap) w/50's toe (no reinforcement of any kind), smaller welt and 1 row of welt stitching (if possible), no lining, no pull straps, yes to logo (on the inside if possible), straps on top and bottom 2" longer, brown stitching on uppers (if possible), nailed-down construction.

8. Pwing-- size 10.5EE 155 smoke jumper,black hh,vibram 700 composition full sole and oil resisting heel

9. mctaran -- Service boot, black hh, nailed down construction, upturned toe, brogue toe cap, brass eyelets and hooks, standart heel, natural edges, single leather midsole, vibram 269 sole, vibram heel, black leather laces (x2 if possible).

Exactly this boot, but with 269 vibram sole and heel, single leather midsole, eylets and hooks:

vibergboot.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/horseleather1.jpg

my size in RW GT and White's packers is 8D, guess will do some feet tracing to figure out viberg size.

10. bove 9.5 D, Engineer, 10", Black Horsehide, Double Leather Soles with dyed brown edges (1 piece for the midsole, 1 for the sole), Cuban heels, Cat’s Paw heels, One (1) extra heel lift, Brass Roller Buckles, last used on the Inventory oxford (the 110 last?) with no celastic (soft toe), Regular Double Stitch Welt with White Stitching, Instep Straps and upper straps two inches longer, no logo, Perforated Heel Counter and Upper Vamp like this: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1Sr7EddpqF...w/s1600/VB.jpg, No Lining

11. Onehundy US 9.5 D engineers, blach hh, double midsole leather natural color , Vibram 705 sole. 50's toebox, 9 " high, no lining , silver roller buckles, quabaug heel , cuban heel, Metal Toe plate.

12. Snake US 9D Service boots, black hh, work toes with Celastic, single midsole natural leather, Vibram 430 mini lugs sole, quabaug heel, all antique eyelets, black leather laces, regular double stitch down welt.

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Btw. got a question:

What's better nailed down or stitchdown?

I believe what nailed down construction gives a closer trim, but what about durability etc?

Also is it possible to build 269 vibram sole (not half sole) with nailed down option?

I think nailed down is the standard construction form that most companies use, and have used, for years. The nailed down construction folds the leather under the shoe, and adds a separate leather welt. Both are quite durable, and the Viberg site, under Boot Anatomy, gives a nice detailed look at both methods.

As far as I know, any Vibram sole can be used with either construction type, but this is just an assumption. You may have to double check.

I'm going to go with the nailed down construction, because I don't want the vamp to also be used as the welt (I just prefer the other look, I think it looks more classic and polished).

This is what the stitched down construction will look like.p><p><img src=armyboot by ray.wendolowski, on Flickr[/img]

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