Why use chainstitching?

[mizanation]

Sure chainstitching looks cool, and is still used today as an embroidering stitch, but it is not stronger than a regular lock stitch. In fact, the lock stitch was developed in the 1830s to come up with an alternative to the chain stitch which is weak and easy to unravel.

Why did jean makers in the 1940s use the chain stitch on areas like the hem and waistband when the lock stitch had already been around for 100 years?

Now, many people insist on chain stitch on the hem of their jeans, which is great for aesthetic purposes, but a regular lock stitch is stronger and looks cleaner, albeit less authentic or rugged.

Can someone shed some light on this matter?

Edited by mizanation on May 5, 2006 at 01:06 PM

[mizanation]

NEVERMIND--

i found ringring's response to this question in another thread:

http://www.superfuture.com/city/supertalk/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=2574

should have searched.... oh well.

[Landy]

ringring should put the yoda avy under his name

[xcoldricex]

denim expert he is.

[tweeds]

fail you, he will not

[ringring]

Denim expert, I am not

Learning. I am.

Sure chainstitching looks cool, and is still used today as an embroidering stitch, but it is not stronger than a regular lock stitch. In fact, the lock stitch was developed in the 1830s to come up with an alternative to the chain stitch which is weak and easy to unravel.

Those are 3 different things.

Embroidery chainstitch - Not sure of it's origins, but it was used as long ago as the Shang Dynasty Chinese (around 1600-1050 BC). Beautiful stitch.

Simple chainstitch - still used as a 'basting' or 'tacking' stitch, where pieces of fabric need to be joined only on temporary basis and then need to be easily separated.

Double locking 'Jeans' Chainstitch - flexible and strong. Part of what makes jeans, jeans.

[mizanation]

thanks ringring for the info.

i was wondering why chainstitch had 3 different apparent meanings. i assume that on an industrial machine, chainstitch always means double locking chainstitch.

[Ryu]

which is strong, chain or ordinally?

- it's equal.

but there is a difference in fading.

Using chain stitch, your train of jeans is fading wind.

[Guest]

This is what my text book told me, it's kind of technical and boring I can imaging and maybe abracadabra to those who do not really know know a sewwing machine works, images help too but I can't upload they just now so here goes the tech talk:

lockstitch (301 standardised stitchtype code) "plain normal stitch"

is made by pulling the top thread over the under thread under the fabric and they pulling the topthread back up trough the fabric. When the topthread is pulled back up it slightly pulles the bottom tread into the hole the needle made in the fabric, so now there are 4 thread in the hole two from both top and bottom thread, this makes the hole a bit bigger the a chainstitch hole, see below. The sewing machines that work in this way have a small bobbing with the underthread wound on a small wheel, the machine pulls the top thread around this bobbin during every single stitch. Due to this the bobbin or wheel with the under thread on it can not be to big and thus cannot hold a very long tread, only about 20-10 meters depending on the wheel and the threadthickness. At some point (and believe this is always in the middle of your most difficult seam!) the bottom thread runs out and you have to insert a new wheel with thread, this takes some time and when you run a factory you do not want your workers to waste a lot of time changing bobbins al the time, because wether it takes your production line 20 or 22 minutes to sew one pair of jeans (kind of standart for normal jeans) makes a huge differance.

chainstitch (401 standardised stitchtype code)

the advantage lies in the setup of the sewing machine, it does not have a bobbin or wheel to pull the top tread around because the bottom thead is looped trough the top thread under the fabric, this loop can be pulled out of the toptread and in this way you can pull out the entire seem. To me this is the greaters advantage for I like to take old jeans apart, but my teacher told me that in general seams are not put in garments to be taken out, exept maybe to sew on tags and such. Because the top thread is being held in place by a loop of bottom thread it does not pull the bottom thread back up into the hole in the fabric, it would have to pull up 4 additional threads. This means the hole will stay smaller than with a lockstitch, for jeans this is not really relevant but for a delicate shirt fabric it is, reeeeeeally good shirts have chainstitched button and buttonhole stands, though you don't really find it much (I did it on my ownmade shirt with chainstitches though, gonna do the next one with a contrasting backthread colour) Also the bottom thread cannot run out as quickely because it is not convined to a small bobbin, with chainstitch machines top and bottom thread can both be up to ten kilometers long, and positioned so the sewer can see when the thread will run out, instead of in the inside of the machine where it always runs out in the middle of your impossibly hard seam...

And the backthread can be in a contrasting colour that you don't see from the other side of the fabric. Plus: a chain stitch can stretch (more) than a lockstitch, which is good in jeans and why inner and outerleg seams are usually made with chainstitches, because over the length of the leg even dry non stretch denim can stretch quite a bit, and if it would stretch more then the seem would allow you would break the seem and defect the jeans, not good. One last thing: chainstitches have more thread on the back side of the seam, this puts more presure on the fabric ontop of the seam when worn so the fading is more then with a lockstitch on the same place. though the result is highly dependant on the place of the seem.

Again I almost feel I have to appologise for going into the sewing techniques so deep, for me the whole process of sewing jeans together adds to the character of the jeans just as much as the fabric and I am highly interested in all the stitches and sewingmachines and their possibilities. If you are not then I can imagine this does not really add or take away from

[mizanation]

ryu, i love that last sentence.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

me, too!

Edited by denimdestroyedmylife on May 6, 2006 at 07:35 PM

[mizanation]

ddml - that's brilliant!

kinda like "all your bases are belong to us" but much more beautiful and mysterious. a little jean koan.

[Ryu]

single(regular)stitch

http://letgoasyoulike.fc2web.com/wrang9.jpg

chain one

http://letgoasyoulike.fc2web.com/11m6.jpg

see

chain one is winder than regular one....

[Ryu]

sorry.....

single(regular)stitch

chain one

<img align=absmiddle src="http://letgoasyoulike.fc2web.com/11m6.jpg

" border=0 vspace=0>

see

chain one is winder than regular one....

[Ryu]

chain one

[ringring]

Quote:

which is strong, chain or ordinally?

- it's equal.

but there is a difference in fading.

Using chain stitch, your train of jeans is fading wind.

--- Original message by Ryu on May 6, 2006 10:32 AM

I don't think the stitches are equal in strength - which is why chainstitching is used in certain stress points on a pair of jeans in preference to the single lock stitch.

Hems - certain chainstitching machines, such as the old Union Specials, roll the hems. This is a very different process to folding the hems up twice over, pressing them, and edge stitching them. The hemming is done in one process and in a circular motion, creating a slight torque at the hem. Many times the hem will be twisted, so that the side and inside leg seams don't completely match up. This, added to the rolled hem and the chainstitching v denim shrinkage, gives the roping effect that's much sought after amongst denimnerds.

Regular folded & pressed hems by comparison look flat.

Edited by ringring on May 9, 2006 at 01:22 AM

[Paul T]

ringring, this is exactly why we missed you so much. Don't ever go on vacation again!

Coming across a new, insightful piece of knowledge like this makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

[mizanation]

aaaah, the roping effect! so that's what it's called. i really love that on the hems of my cane 47s, i didn't know that it was because of the special hemming machine. cool, thanks!

------

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[ringring]

Quote:

ringring, this is exactly why we missed you so much. Don't ever go on vacation again!

Coming across a new, insightful piece of knowledge like this makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

--- Original message by Paul T on May 9, 2006 02:25 AM

'tis I who have learnt from you Paul.

Vacation? I wish!

Unlike yourself, I'm not a natural writer, so my description of the hemming machine maybe a bit clumsy. It works a little like a plough - there's a metal scoop that rolls the fabric over before it goes under the needle. The machinist needs to pull the hem in the opposite direction to the machine stitching, and in doing so, a little torque is created.

Afterwards, you get a narrow width, rolled hem. You can feel they're rolled, as the edge is rounded rather than pressed flat. Nice.

[thomas_highstreet]

i was under the impression a chainstitch is alot more suitable on denim than a single line stitch, as if one loop breaks it should lock itself back on the next loop.. jeans are pretty high stress, i mean, they are workwear.. so this extra support is needed (or was needed)..

[tweeds]

i'm curious - i googled for chainstitch machines, and howstuffworks.com threw this up:

http://home.howstuffworks.com/sewing-machine.htm - scroll down to the middle where they discuss lock and chainstitching and illustrate with a nifty flash animation. would this be an example of the temporary stitchwork that ringring alluded to? how is a double chainstitch created then?

[denimdestroyedmylife]

tweeds,

ring2 posted this animation elsewhere, but here's a double locking chainstitch that is found on jeans:

[__3xL]

hmm so then using chainstitch my train of jeans - IS fading wind ..

shit

[ill DON]

wow thanks for the info . there s so much i still dont know. 3 different types of chain stitching but the lock is stronger, and the denim stretches. but is there denim that stretch and some that don't ? or does it depend one the type of stitching?

[morse9443]

someone was trolling

[klue]

my findings...i have found that chainstich with hold a seam together very well, even after it breaks in a number of spots. However when taking the stitches out intentionally, it takes a lot longer to pick a lockstitch.... you dont need chainstitch or special folders for extreme roping. this was rolled by hand on a lockstitch machine with a regular presser-foot.

[klue]

these too were done on a regular "plain-stitcher"

[Canuk]

my findings...i have found that chainstich with hold a seam together very well, even after it breaks in a number of spots.

Truth! Exception being if the end of the thread isn't knotted or secured properly. The chainstitch unravels fairly quickly in this case. I suppose this makes sense logically.

I like how there was a 5 year hiatus between postings, then the thread came alive again.

[cassieb]

I have a juki mo 2500 series that stitches 5 thread with chainstitch. I mostly sew knits and have found the 3 thread to be lacking a little in stability. So my question... is the 5 thread suitable for knit sewing?

[ndat]

You made an account just to bump this ancient thread?

Edited February 7, 2013 by ndat