Loopwheeled/Vintage T-Shirts

[rayw44]

true, you clearly have no facts. the basic lw machines are the same, the fabrics and weight of material differ, hence THE VARIOUS TYPES OF LW MATERIALS.

What is this statement based off of? Where did you see any information stating all loop wheel machines are the same? You're saying there is only one model and one manufacturer?

And what do you know of lw? You are knocking other people's posts for attempting to add info without citation or authority, yet you have neither. So far it has been a lot of hot air and not much else. Maybe you do have a nice source of some sort, but it would be nice to find out what or who that is.

[Foxy2]

^^ That's what they told me 3 years ago when I was visiting their shop in Tokyo - didn't ask them for a ratio and I haven't checked if it has changed lately.

I am following them on their blog for a number of years and own a few of their pieces over the years.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Foxy2

[Foxy2]

I just googled both German manufacturers you named and it's interesting that they both come from the same German city (Albstadt). And it's also the home town of Merz b. Schwanen.

So you can say Albstadt (near Stuttgart) is kinda the German counterpart to Okayama

edit: you beat me to it

Merz (not Merz b. Schwanen) is another early Loopwheel machine manufacturer from Germany.

Don't forget Saxony (Plauen and region) as the other, older center of German knitting history...

[nachtelijk]

Merz (not Merz b. Schwanen) is another early Loopwheel machine manufacturer from Germany.

Don't forget Saxony (Plauen and region) as the other, older center of German knitting history...

i am also interested to know that if there are other companies in Germany which also does LW fabric (clothing)

surely there must be some still existing but yet (or well kept secrets) not known outside of Europe?

Edited March 18, 2013 by nachtelijk

[Foxy2]

yes, thank you captain obvious.

i was interested in why you came in the thread and proclaimed they all the machines were in japan were either, japanese made, or were copied. these are your words. then, in no more then three posts later you say they are from euro? what the fuck?

now, i see you copy and pasted an lw interview. okay, but what do you know of lw? i thought you had some prior knowledge of the machines. now, i think you are full of shit.

...

That's what my dad says...

On another note:

Not so sure what you were expecting?

No, I don't have a loopwheel machine at home.

No, I don't run a factory using loopwheel machines.

I am industrial tailor, pattern maker and have a engineering degree in garment engineering.

I spend the last 30 years working in the garment industry, but I'm not a loopwheel or knitting specialist.

I have been interested in loopwheel fabrics and other fabrics and machines from the area for a number of years.

The brief history of circular knitting can be easily googled by everybody - the early concept of the loopwheel machine goes back to England or France (Marc Isambard Brunel, French born, English engineer patented a circular loop wheel knitting machine).

Industrial loopwheel machines have been produced since the early 1900's.

I was sceptical about the statement that the machines currently used in Japan (according to LoopWheeler they are from the 1920's) are actually American or European machines.

As of now we have to take LoopWheelers word that the machines of the 2 remaining Japanese factories are build in Japan.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

^^ that's fair. You could try it to do it in a more friendly way though

I, at least, would appreciate that.

[Foxy2]

...

when some says "most machines are made in japan ... then they say, oh wait, "most are from euro," you dont need to be a lawyer to say ... um, wtf?

...

I said that I believe that the majority of the still existing/operational loopwheel machines in Japan are most likely of Japanese origin.

For various reason, I tried to explain a few...

Same as most of the European loopwheel machines are of European origin (or have been, whatever is left of them outside of museums).

I don't recall comparing the size of the Japanese industry to the European.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Foxy2

[rayw44]

yes, only one type of basic lw machine ... that is sort of the point. its lOoP-WhOOOveNNN.

no, not one manufacture. two or three main manufactures, several machines exist with several japanese/euro manufactures.

i actually dont know a lot. i have owned lw material for many years, but i am NOT an expert.

i am not knocking, just clarifying. when some says "most machines are made in japan ... then they say, oh wait, "most are from euro," you dont need to be a lawyer to say ... um, wtf? i question. its what i do. i want to know the truth. i want to know about these products. i dont want to have somone come up in this hole and say they know something they dont.

got it?

I completely get that, and I would like to know more as well and I ask questions to further the conversation as well. However, the problem is that you are doing exactly what you are complaining about.

You issued a blanket statement saying there is only one type of basic loop wheeling machine, but you don't know that, you just said so yourself. Unless you have catalogs, purchase orders, or some other source to show the machine types, we just don't know this right now. My point is that there likely are a number of different types of loop wheel machines, much like even though all shuttle looms are basically the same type, there are many variants that do certain things. I believe this was Foxy's original point as well.

I'm also suggesting you hold back on the judgment when you are doing the same thing, or continue to judge and stop issuing blanket statements without support. It just isn't helping the conversation in any way, because you are saying it's not ok for others, but just swell when you do it. It just keeps causing others to say wtf to your posts, much like you are saying wtf to others' posts.

I think you certainly can add to the conversation, especially with the pics you have and the access to this, but others are just trying to help. I'm not trying to pick on you or antyhing either, I am just trying point out that everyone posting here is trying to get to the same goal: more info about this process.

Any chance you have other pics of the machines showing a maker's plate or serial number? It seems that Foxy may have access to some info that could help narrow some of this down. I don't know if you are still in the area, but if you can get access to them I would imagine there is some identifying info on each machine that was placed there by the manufacturer. Source documents are probably the best place to start, although I'm not sure if anyone actually has much access to them.

[rayw44]

Foxy I think you are right to doubt that all these machines are also American or European, although it seems more plausible than the story of all of the American looms being shipped to Japan merely based on size alone. From what I understand, a shuttle loom is much larger than a loop wheel machine, so it may be more plausible that a large number of these machines were shipped to Japan because that could have been done without an immense shipping costs (smaller bulk and weight = less shipping costs generally speaking).

However, if there is a Japanese manufacturer of these machines, or if there was at one point, this idea seems to be much less plausible. Why ship an industrial machine across the globe if you can get them in your home country?

[Double 0 Soul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzxksv9XGQk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lruRJjqsUKw

[Double 0 Soul]

Just going to chuck another log on the fire..

I do feel like foxy is bringing true personal knowledge to this debate and he obviously has experience in the field,

I have just had a quick scoot online and found most of whatever123,s input readily available there.

The first pic that you posted "from your photobucket" is actually from http://onandbeyond.com/tag/loopwheeler/

Did you take this photo yourself or have you just pulled it from the net as i have?

You will find all the other photo,s there.

Want to see his pics from harajuku? type loopwheel or satoshi suzuki into google images and there they are.

As we see many times on this forum it is not difficult to put an argument forward with info collected from internet blogs.

When you say "i have my ways" would those ways be google by any chance?

[ksisouk]

Wait, so just the non-zip hoodie isn't loop-wheeled? I thought it was the same as the zip-hoodie and the standard sweats, which are both loop-wheeled right? Also, the two-pack shirts aren't champion replicas as far as I know; that's a different, and more expensive, shirt.

I only mentioned the non-zip hoodie because that's the only one I asked about before I bought it. If they are made from the same fabric, which it does look like it is, then they all probably aren't loopwheel fabric.

Here's what Gordon sent me:

"The Real McCoy's Hooded Pullover is not made on a loopwheel machine but

rather a special knitting machine Real McCoy's acquired that is exclusive to

the brand yet still unlike the average knitted sweatshirt."

Also, on the BiG site I find that anything that is made of loopwheel fabric would have it in the product description, so if it doesn't I just assume that it's not. BiG has the 2 pack shirts just listed as a tubular knit and not loopwheel. I don't know if my assumption helps, but if you're curious I'm pretty sure you could shoot Gordon an email and he'll let you know.

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Maynard Friedman]

Somewhere in the midst of this debate, has anyone explained the difference between a loopwheel machine and a standard tubular knit machine (if there is such a thing)?

....waits for abuse questioning my IQ, social credibility, moral fibre, integrity, possible agenda, etc...

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[Maynard Friedman]

Considerably holier than thou...

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[kiya]

yes, someone who doesnt know where the machines are made (or know where they come from) has "true knowledge."

yes, it was a pic in my photobucket. its this really cool place you can store photos, either taken personally or from another source. i dont think i ever said i took that pic, did i? perhaps you inferred that but i never said it.

you can think what you want. i know you are all pissy because i didnt respond to your previous message where you say you are sorry and blah blah blah. but no need to take it personal. i am not here to be your friend. i could honestly care less what you think or do not think about me, hence my reason for not responding. you follow?

Oh wow. That photo from your photobucket just led me to your name.. now i know who's been trolling us at our general email address at Self Edge for the past two years.

This guy has been emailing us occasionally with extremely offensive emails both personally attacking us and pulling the same type of trolling he's been running on these forums.

Tyson, your life must suck.

[garden gnomes in space]

LOL. seriously?

[misterjuiceman]

Oh wow. That photo from your photobucket just led me to your name.. now i know who's been trolling us at our general email address at Self Edge for the past two years.

This guy has been emailing us occasionally with extremely offensive emails both personally attacking us and pulling the same type of trolling he's been running on these forums.

Tyson, your life must suck.

Looks like Tyson was already a member here: http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php?/topic/44154-ban-tyson31-support-thread/

[ksisouk]

loopwheeler machines use gravity to feed the material. other "tubular" machines are manually fed. that is part of the reason lw fabric has such a soft (tension free) feel to them.

there are also many other types of tub knitting machines designs whereas there is only one basic lw machine design. they operate much more efficient then a lw machine does. i am sure there are many many other differences aside from the physical design of the machines as well.

Just wanted to say that it isn't tension free. Gravity causes tension. It just has no (and by no I mean exponentially less than a normal tubular fit) excess tension from the machine. Unless they have anti gravity fields while making these sweaters.

[misterjuiceman]

no, gravity is tension free. in a lw machine the material is not pulled pushed or otherwise manually entered in the machine. with lw machines gravity (i am sure you can imagine how this works ... assuming you passed the 2nd grade) is used to feed the material. do you need me to draw you a picture?

Maybe it'll help if you draw it: http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/newtlaws/u2l2c.cfm

[S-Town]

Damn, Tyson is a physics guru too! I wonder how he continues to keep Goldman Sachs afloat with all his outside interests.

[Quoise1203]

I thought your name was Brett

[misterjuiceman]

come on hugo, really? you need a picture?

I meant that it would help you.

[ksisouk]

come on hugo, really? you need a picture?

Yeah on the real I need a free body diagram.

[misterjuiceman]

I'd love to see how gravity gets cancelled out on this one.

[ksisouk]

What happened to whatever's posts? I actually wanted to know. Assuming he knew. Cause I read from loopwheeler:

http://www.loopwheel.../makeit_w1.html

Ichigo: I see, is that factor making soft fabric?

Satoshi: Being slow means no excess tension. Fabric is being made with very much relaxed yarn, making fabric with softness which comes from cotton yarn itself.

It clearly says "no excess tension". If it's a translation error I would find that weird because I'm pretty sure there's a way to say no tension rather no excess tension. That and if you think about the machine it looks like the material is draped downwards and gravity obviously pulls down so there's gotta be tension right?

Anybody want to clearify on this for me?

Edited March 19, 2013 by ksisouk

[S-Town]

So, a question for those that have purchased Loopwheeler products: do they ever do a standard tee, in the same vein of their basic sweats? I see that they have a Swiss-made raglan, but I'm more interested in their Japanese sewn stuff.

[garden gnomes in space]

well, no tension except for gravity. I think thats what he means. Whatever went and got himself banned it looks like.