Jeans of the Old West: A History

[Sansome1877]

Sadly, I gave away my little 2x1 jacket. But i think the macro shots actually make it harder to tell the difference, in the hand they don't look at all similar. THe twill line is far less pronounced on 2x1.

Mike, that fabric looks like a ticking to me. Lovely French fabric, still trendy, they sell a lot of it on Berwick St, near me. Amoskeag used to produce huge amounts of it.

Ticking... Interesting that this fabric is still trendy. I found the top part of a pant years ago... I think this is the first time in 5 years, that I found this fabric again.

Joseph... Roundhouse?

[Paul T]

Ticking was made mainly for mattress covers (still is), as well as some other furniture. It was made dense, to keep in the feathers. I've never seen it used for clothing in Europe - so I love the fact that people tried it in the US, in search of harder-wearing materials.

HAd a longer read of your book last night, looking through some of the Boss of the Road and other sections. A wonderful reminder of the creativity of that period, all those people looking for a USP.

[Sansome1877]

Ticking was made mainly for mattress covers (still is), as well as some other furniture. It was made dense, to keep in the feathers. I've never seen it used for clothing in Europe - so I love the fact that people tried it in the US, in search of harder-wearing materials.

HAd a longer read of your book last night, looking through some of the Boss of the Road and other sections. A wonderful reminder of the creativity of that period, all those people looking for a USP.

I found a 1870's pillow case with similar fabric a few years back. It sounds like It's going to be easy to get that Ticking fabric, just in case I find another pair of pants that use Ticking. I really want to make the pants on page 54(top two pictures) It's hard to see but this duck fabric has white and dark brown pin stripes going through it. I will take a close up of the fabric.

[Sansome1877]

Page 65, something I didn't notice on the patent... small yolk,two fly buttons and the top button being reversed on the patent illustration.

[mtchfrnk]

Just anecdotally -- my best vintage find so far is ~14 yards of old, used mattress ticking fabric. The face side is in really good condition with lots of slubs and loom chatter. The back side is clean, but it has a pile raised, in some spots as fine as velvet or suede. My conjecture is that it was actually used as a mattress or pillow for most of its life, and that the abrasive action of the down filling (or cornhusk filling, or whatever) raised the surface fibers. I am going to make something out of it one of these days.

[Sansome1877]

Just anecdotally -- my best vintage find so far is ~14 yards of old, used mattress ticking fabric. The face side is in really good condition with lots of slubs and loom chatter. The back side is clean, but it has a pile raised, in some spots as fine as velvet or suede. My conjecture is that it was actually used as a mattress or pillow for most of its life, and that the abrasive action of the down filling (or cornhusk filling, or whatever) raised the surface fibers. I am going to make something out of it one of these days.

Can you take a picture of your yardage and post it? Sounds pretty cool.

[rnrswitch]

I feel like these need to be here as well

[Sansome1877]

I would like to see a pick pocket try and take your wallet out of that back pocket, without you knowing it. Nice photos rnr!

[Knugget]

sooo glad i found this thread. used the book to do a speech. THANKS

[rnrswitch]

I would like to see a pick pocket try and take your wallet out of that back pocket, without you knowing it. Nice photos rnr!

Dude, I have a huge wallet and it is difficult for me to get it outta there. Hah.

[Joseph Hill]

You need a chain wallet. Not to keep it from getting lost, but so you can fish it out of your pocket. Puts my Lee Zeds pockets to shame.

Sansome, Roundhouse makes the last non-boutique American made overalls other than Pointer. They do work wear ala Carhartt before they got all uppity and expansionist. My only experience is with their basic blue unwashed denim. They don't give you any info on the denim other than 'heavyweight' and pre-shrunk. Except they're not particularly heavy and they shrank. It's a 2x1 twill. I'm not good identifying ring-spun yarns, but as it exhibits some of that modern Levi style 'orange peel' fade, they're probably not. I've worked them pretty hard for all my dirty and gravel gritted jobs, and washed them regularly (they're for work not fashion) and suffered no damage, only fading. My camera doesn't handle macro too well, otherwise I'd post a closeup.

[Sansome1877]

sooo glad i found this thread. used the book to do a speech. THANKS

If you don't mind me asking, I was wondering where you gave your speech? Thanks Joseph for the information.

[Dr_Heech]

Mike, FYI

- cross post from the Levis 'birthplace and museum' thread showing the early duck and denim jackets discussed earlier in this thread.

[Sansome1877]

Very cool Heech... Thanks for posting it!

[mtchfrnk]

Can you take a picture of your yardage and post it? Sounds pretty cool.

Some photos of my vintage mattress ticking fabric.

It's in two pieces; the top piece here was cut in half lengthwise so it has only one selvedge edge. The bottom piece is selvedge-to-selvedge.

The edge. Also note some fading on the indigo stripes.

Some details of irregularities in the fabric:

The gross part: the back has a sueded texture from, I presume, being full of feathers in a previous life.

It looks filthy but as best as I can tell it's clean. I hot-soaked the yardage when I got it and the water wasn't especially murky afterwards. The nap rubs off:

Some thread is still stitched into the fabric at various points.

Definitely cotton thread, which makes me think the fabric is pretty old. People don't use cotton thread so much anymore, right? Because poly or nylon is easier to work with?

[rnrswitch]

For ticking fabric I believe a poly cotton blend is used mainly because it is stronger, with about the same feel and it tends to keep its color a bit better.

[Sansome1877]

Nice post mtchfrnk, I wish I had pictures of that piece of pant I found using this type of fabric. I remember them being floppy front pocket pants, pre Levi patent I think. rnr I will send over those levi repro pictures today.

[Paul T]

I dropped into my favourite Soho fabric shop today to check out their ticking - you can still buy it in selvage, that identical construction, a kind of a herringbone, still all cotton. Plenty of projectile loom versions, too, but it makes me think they've been making it on the same equipment for decades. They're always a little cagey, but if I catch them on a friendly day I'll ask where it's made. Over $20 per yard, unfortunately. I'll shoot pics next time I'm in town

They had some pretty funky-looking hemp denim, too, made on a projectile loom, lovely and gnarly.

[Teger]

this is probably the coolest thread I've read on any forum. will definitely be picking up this book!

[rnrswitch]

I have seen a lot of selvedge ticking fabric at 60in wide, maybe wider, i didn't have my tape measure. I guess since it is used for large items like bed spreads, tarps, etc. 36in" just ain't gonna do it.

[Sansome1877]

Paul T posted these on the LVC thread a few months ago, I thought this thread should also have them. I am going to find the picture I took that shows

the thread count,per inch. I also want to show the cinch strap buckle stitches, this pair has a crude triangle... this could be the beginning of this triangle stitch that would then be used for the next 50 years, or until the cinch strap was removed in the 1940's( I think 1940's?) If you don't know what cinch buckle stitch that I am talking about... you can look on page 44, this shows the 1870's stitches that were used. BTW Thanks Paul for the information on the ticking fabric, I might have to get the name of the place so I can order a few yards. Teger thanks for the kind words.

[Paul T]

Lovely. I always love seeing that incredibly short stitch lenghth. So they switched to a double yoke swtich a little later on the 201, and at some point didn't use selvage. I wonder if they switched the fabric at any point?

Happy to pick up some ticking for you at any time... I can photograph them first. They are expensive, but in the case of items like Ticking they seem to be able to source fabrics no one else can. The shop is called The Cloth House.

[Sansome1877]

Lovely. I always love seeing that incredibly short stitch lenghth. So they switched to a double yoke swtich a little later on the 201, and at some point didn't use selvage. I wonder if they switched the fabric at any point?

Happy to pick up some ticking for you at any time... I can photograph them first. They are expensive, but in the case of items like Ticking they seem to be able to source fabrics no one else can. The shop is called The Cloth House.

Im thinking that the #2's /201 and XX changed to the double needle yolk stitch around 1893-94. I have a half pair of 201's on denimnews from 1890-91, it still has a single needle yolk. This half pair has a pocket bag stamp that matches Levi advertisements from 1890. The fabric on this half pair is different than the #2's that I have posted here. I will post the half pair on this thread. Paul I can send you a piece of that ticking fabric.

[Paul T]

Isn't that a 2-horse patch? Did that come in before 1886, then?

[Sansome1877]

Isn't that a 2-horse patch? Did that come in before 1886, then?

Yes that's the two horse brand patch, I don't know when the two horse brand patch first came in. We can't find the brand, in advertisements before 1890. The #2's that I posted above date to the late 1880, could be from early 1890.

[Sansome1877]

Typical tight Levi stitching, that I have seen on all 1870's and 80's Levi pants. The last photo is the crude triangle stitch, that holds the cinch buckle on.

[entertainment!]

^That's a detail that LVC has gotten right. All my one pocket jeans have very tight stitching.

[Sansome1877]

^That's a detail that LVC has gotten right. All my one pocket jeans have very tight stitching.

Yea I recently got three pair of 1 pocket LVC jeans and they all have the tight stitching.

[Sansome1877]

[roy6]

Mike, those Neustadter's look fantastic. Wish I could see you wearing those in person, see some of your collection in the flesh, maybe have you sign my copy of your book or something.

Why isn't there some time and place where those things could happen?