Selvedge Denim

[sarno]

Those samurai jeans at the rakuten site look streaky...the indigo seems to streak down the denim in different shades. is the streakiness of the indigo on purpose or a side-effect of the weaving and/or dyeing process? will this soften over time?

incidentally, i think the vintage loom mystery demands a documentary of some sort. anyone working on one or feel like making one?

Edited by sarno on May 20, 2005 at 02:26 PM

[Geowu]

Wow... those Samurai jeans look fantastic. The price is ¥52290, a bit expensive, but that streaky effect is like the one seen on Nudie's Straight Sven Italian-made selvage. The buttons are gold-plated. It seems to be amazing quality, natural dyed.

[urban sprawl]

went to memes the other day and saw some nice denim from "post overalls". nice selvedge fabric... for your list ringring!;P

[ringring]

Thanks Urban Sprawl. Will edit list

[savage]

don't mind me, lots of stuff i wan to know...

as a side note, Evisu jeans are WAY too expensive in the States. Minimum $300 in NYC. Just went into the Evisu store in Seoul, Korea and bought a pair for $80. highest pair was $120. How can this happen? Why/ How are people paying this 200-300% markup?

Though i will pay $200 for my DDC's cause i can't get nothin' like them ANYWHERE!

[ringring]

Juxtaposed : Here's a few links to denim galleries as requested (not looked at most of them in ages, so some links may not work now)

http://denim-gallery.heavy.jp/collection.html

http://letgoasyoulike.fc2web.com/denim.htm

http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~hiro1031/collection.htm

http://www.nurs.or.jp/~ourlem/text/denim_top.html

http://wornjeans.atspace.us/

http://www.realjeans.org/collections/index_col.html

http://www.levisjapan.com/my1.htm

http://dragon1001xx.fc2web.com/page13.html

http://my.internetacademy.jp/~a01020172/

http://www.biwako.ne.jp/~tm-nm318/sub3.htm

http://hk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sylvianhammillfan/my_photos

http://www.geocities.jp/akiramayomiyuu2001/sub-newcorekusyon.html

http://www.eonet.ne.jp/~my-standard/Jeans_photo.html

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Stylish/1952/index.htm

http://osaka.cool.ne.jp/tak812/jeans/jeansmenu.html

http://www.mynudies.com/index.php?page=4&sid=186d696162e9e880e1eec496bb0b0c2e

Please feel free to post more.

Links to online selvedge jeans retailers might be useful too

Edited by ringring on Jun 6, 2005 at 02:49 PM

[juxtaposed]

thanks a lot. will do so.

i thought that the swedish site www.zoovillage.com carries pace denim. but appaerantly they dont.

Edited by juxtaposed on Jun 6, 2005 at 07:19 AM

[evolution global]

I know a shop in Berlin carrying Pace Denim.

Interested?

Oh, i just read another post by you where you state your friend got a shop, carrying pace denim. So you don´t need my help.

Cheers

Edited by evolution global on Jun 6, 2005 at 07:37 AM

[takashi]

Mmm... bit quiet here lately. Maybe summertime coming...

Four jeans I've got lately (two for me, two for my girlfriend).

-- for me:

Levi's vintage 1955 reproduction 501XX (unwashed rigid); 34x36; 13.5oz/yd Cone right-hand twill red selvage. Had these for a couple months now -- they have that pleasing greyish Levis indigo when in the unwashed state. 13.5oz makes for a nice medium weight denim. The weft yarn is very white. Can't fault them on any count really, except of course being so traditional they lack any interesting details. I got them at 'Cinch', just off Carnaby Street in London

Yen Jeans Red Label model 110 (rigid, straight wide leg, low-rise). 34x36 14oz right-hand twill Japanese orange/white selvage. The indigo is denser and more purple than in the Levis, and the weft yarn is distinctly brownish-yellow rather than white. Also the actual yarn is thinner and more closely woven, giving it a more 'drapey' look and rougher hand than the Levis. I don't think they will last as long as a result, but I don’t mind – I can patch them up (!)... I got these at Michiko Koshino on Broadwick Street in London. It's an ok shop, but the staff is clueless (friendly, but clueless); don’t bother asking them about sizes, denim weight, etc, just find the stuff yourself. Note that Yen Jeans have two lines: Red label (Japanese vintage-style selvage) and Orange label (Italian-made). The Orange label is more of a fashion line comparable to Nudies and the ‘Euro’ Evisu line (both also Italian-made).

-- for my girlfriend:

Works, Inc. Iron Heart 'Tom Boy' (rigid, low rise boot cut), 27x34, 21oz (!) right-hand twill Japanese NON-selvage denim. Comes with a matching denim wallet strap, although this is a bit too 'butch' for my girlfriend. A massive denim, intended for motorcycle riders, really, but still comfortable to wear (I'm told). When freshly rinsed, the jeans will stand up on their own. Polar opposite type of denim to the Yen, the yarn is very wide and regular. A completely machine-made product, but extraordinarily robust -- I'm not sure they will ever break in. Note: Works/IronHeart also make a selvage line : if that's important to you, make sure you specify. Unfortunately I can't wear the mens' versions of their jeans because the longest length they make is 34", which is a bit too short for me after shrinkage. Not sold in the west, I had to order them from the Japanese distributor, pay for international shipping, customs, etc. A bit of a bore, but still, kind of fun – I’m sure she has the only pair in the U.K. as a result.

Samurai Jeans S510XX-AI Natural Indigo (rigid, straight leg) 29x36, 17oz, r-h twill Japanese red&gold-thread selvage. This was a limited-edition model -- only 250 pairs were made from one run of fabric, and this was number 100 in the series (they are numbered on the rear patch). It was a birthday present for my girlfriend. (Alright, I'll be honest: I was looking for a pair for myself but couldn't find any larger size than 29 --- all the others being sold out --- so I decided to make a virtue of necessity and buy it for her; at least that way I can admire them). The yarn is loosely ring-spun and quite irregular in thickness. The fabric looks and feels like it is hand-woven. The indigo dying is wonderfully variegated. Very stiff when new. Unusual features include gold-plated fly buttons engraved with Japanese ‘mon’ symbols, and the hand-stamped mark of the indigo-dyer on the inside pocket. Again, I had to get these shipped from Japan via a retailer in Nagoya, with the help of a Japanese friend. I believe I may have got the last pair going, although I think there is one (used?) on Rakuten (which is like Japanese ebay).

I’m a crap photographer, and don’t have a macro lens, but I will try to post a few shots of these if there is any interest.

best,

takashi

[wild_whiskey]

Takashi, very cool. Your lady is good to you if she wears the Iron Heart jeans. I don't think mine would listen if I told her she should wear anything other than GAP jeans (but I'll win eventually).

[ringring]

takashi - photos would be great

Cool jeans. Lucky lady.

[leviathan]

Ok I thought I'd also share two recent acquisitions

(1) - pair of 5EP one wash.

(2) - pair of 45rpm "2005" sorahikos.

The quality of the 5EPs are in my view second to none. The construction and finishing really are something else, better I thinh than the more expensive rpms. The cast is very green, fit is kind of narrow-ish, slightly tapered. Thinking of keeping these dark, not going for wear/washed look.

45rpms are new style just introduced apparently. They are pretty wide legged. Denim very very slubby, imperfections in selvedge line etc. Think the dye will come out fairly easily on these so will try some gently "encouragement" on areas of wear to see what devlelops. They are lovely too, quite heavy. Nice detailing like "raised" fabric on belt loops and pockets between the stitiching - apparently it's an old fashioned sewing machine that does this (I'm sure others will know more than me).

[35mm]

Quote:

Ok I thought I'd also share two recent acquisitions

(1) - pair of 5EP one wash.

(2) - pair of 45rpm "2005" sorahikos.

The quality of the 5EPs are in my view second to none. The construction and finishing really are something else, better I thinh than the more expensive rpms. The cast is very green, fit is kind of narrow-ish, slightly tapered. Thinking of keeping these dark, not going for wear/washed look.

45rpms are new style just introduced apparently. They are pretty wide legged. Denim very very slubby, imperfections in selvedge line etc. Think the dye will come out fairly easily on these so will try some gently "encouragement" on areas of wear to see what devlelops. They are lovely too, quite heavy. Nice detailing like "raised" fabric on belt loops and pockets between the stitiching - apparently it's an old fashioned sewing machine that does this (I'm sure others will know more than me).

--- Original message by leviathan on Jun 28, 2005 12:47 PM

How about some pics of those 45's?

[takashi]

Quote:

takashi - photos would be great

Cool jeans. Lucky lady.

--- Original message by ringring on Jun 28, 2005 12:46 PM

Ok -- I am away next week but the week after I will endeavour to put some pix up (if I can work out how to do it...).

Best,

takashi

[urban sprawl]

Quote:

Ok I thought I'd also share two recent acquisitions

(1) - pair of 5EP one wash.

(2) - pair of 45rpm "2005" sorahikos.

The quality of the 5EPs are in my view second to none. The construction and finishing really are something else, better I thinh than the more expensive rpms. The cast is very green, fit is kind of narrow-ish, slightly tapered. Thinking of keeping these dark, not going for wear/washed look.

45rpms are new style just introduced apparently. They are pretty wide legged. Denim very very slubby, imperfections in selvedge line etc. Think the dye will come out fairly easily on these so will try some gently "encouragement" on areas of wear to see what devlelops. They are lovely too, quite heavy. Nice detailing like "raised" fabric on belt loops and pockets between the stitiching - apparently it's an old fashioned sewing machine that does this (I'm sure others will know more than me).

--- Original message by leviathan on Jun 28, 2005 12:47 PM

i dont think that the 5ep have better construction or sewing than the 45rpm. can you eloborate?

personally i dont dig the wrangler coinpocket and i think the rise is a bit weird... btw both have the same selvedge.

::::::::::

posted: Jun 5, 2005 10:14 PM msg. 1 of 17

yes they have 2 new styles with each 2 washes in their selvedge (selffabric with red stitch):

1. old fit (straight leg) but new 9 oz fabric in raw and rinse (i think)

2. new fit (peg-legged) and new 12 oz slubby denim in rinse and blue-blk (by spotted horse)

check it.

btw, they opening a new store in ues after summer.

[urban sprawl]

guys, i just got my 21oz studio d'artisans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!))))))))))))))))))))))))

they can walk by themselves!

[Geowu]

cool...

[trinket]

urban sprawl...

I'd like to hear more about the d'artisans: how you got them, sizing, and pics of them on would be great.

(i know pics are a hassle, so just whatever info or comparisons... they are on my radar, but i have never seen them in "the flesh")

_trinket

[Yakboy Equals Nurturer]

Quote: Nice detailing like "raised" fabric on belt loops and pockets between the stitiching - apparently it's an old fashioned sewing machine that does this (I'm sure others will know more than me).

I'm no expert either, but I understand that this is a result of using chain stitch machines. After a wash the cotton thread shrinks, and the chain stitch pulls the fabric together tighter. The 5EP jeans most likely have a lock stitch, which appears neater and is stronger than a chain stitch.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/sewing-machine2.htm

Edited by Yakboy Equals Nurturer on Jul 6, 2005 at 08:52 PM

[andewhall]

Hey Yakboy. I was thinking about chain stitching the other day, thinking it must have a specific purpose. I was taking up a pair of Wranglers for my mate the other day and had to unpick the chain stitch on the hem, and it came away quite easy. So is that the reason for chain stitching to move with the denim? Interesting. Not everyone uses 100% cotton thread though yeah? Not sure, polyester thread doesn't shrink.

Edited by andewhall on Jul 7, 2005 at 01:53 PM

[witts]

What should i use as my next project denim... i can pick from

LVC 1966

Edwin Nashville

Edwin ED-47 Rainbow

[jackbeale]

Hi, i have just bought a pair of evisus of ebay the ones with the gull all the way down the back. But i have washed them and the die has leaked on to the white gull! The jeans have also leaked the die onmto my boxers, can you please tell me if these are fake or is this just what happens with evisu!? Thanks very much

it wud be a great help. Thanks

[emrinder]

the authenticity has nothing to do with naything, theyre just overdyed indigo jeans and bleeding is a common occurence

you know you have to pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues

[witts]

they probly are fake though

[Yakboy Equals Nurturer]

Quote: I was thinking about chain stitching the other day, thinking it must have a specific purpose. I was taking up a pair of Wranglers for my mate the other day and had to unpick the chain stitch on the hem, and it came away quite easy. So is that the reason for chain stitching to move with the denim? Interesting. Not everyone uses 100% cotton thread though yeah? Not sure, polyester thread doesn't shrink.

Chain stitching is kind of like shuttle loom weaving (shuttle loom woven denim being what is generally referred to as selvage). Both are outdated methods that a few companies still use because its the way jeans used to be made. Lock stitching is stronger and better, projectile loom weaving is cheaper and faster. While an argument can be made for selvage denim being better quality fabric, chain stitching is technically inferior.

You're right about the cotton vs. polyester thread. Most lower-end jeans seem to use polyester, which doesn't shrink, which is why the seams won't twist and the hems won't ripple / bunch up after washing. I don't know of any selvage that doesn't also use cotton thread, but only a few seem to use chain stitching. The only 'benefit' I think chain stitching has is that it may accentuate the contraction effect of the shrinking cotton. (It certainly seems that way with 45rpms anyway.)

By the way, Witts, any chance you could reduce the size that image in your signature?

[Ahlvahroe]

Hello, new here. I was wondering is there any bad selvedge or is this a direct indicative of a good jean. Also is there fake selvedge out there such as a common stitch changed afterwords to the selvedge edge. Thanks

[Geowu]

There isn't any 'bad' selvage, as a selvage already takes a fair amount of work to do, so you can't mass produce it or focus the production to a low-price seeking consumer. There are, however, differences between the different jeans manufacturers that do selvage. Uniqlo is far from bad quality but is not as high quality as some other more expensive ones, that use more costly processes. There are attempts to 'fake' selvage but they can be very easily spotted by a person who knows the real thing. To my knowledge these fake selvage are overlock stitching, so they don't have clean edges. Maybe they're not even intended to be fakes, just to copy the nice look.

[witts]

do ACNE produce a selvage line?

[kaew]

witts >> I believe not anymore.

[sweet orr]

evisu u.s. and europe are a licensee of evisu japan, and not the same quality. evisu japan gulls (pocket prints) come to a point and are skinny, all the license versions are fat and rounded at the bottom. this is one way to tell the differance. if you want authentic evisu it is really only available in japan. as far as the quality, u.s. and europe product is inferior to japan evisu. fabric is cheaper, make is not as good. it is possible that the 80.00 dollar jeans are fake. there are many fakes coming from korea, china and h.k.

sweet-orr