Selvedge Denim

[leviathan]

No I understand that perfectly. My confusion is due to the fact that you'd obviously want to make sure that there was no furher "stitching" further up the leg of the jean from the hem (although this would be stitching on the inside of the garment, you'd still be able to see a "line" on the outside) - so the new stitching would have to be exactly on the original chain stitched hem - can this be done?

[Geowu]

IMO this cannot be done in a perfect way. The best option, at least with raw, undistressed denim, is to make the same thing the manufacturer does. Fold the denim in the bottom twice and stitch.

[ringring]

Yes it can be done. You just have to follow in the steps of the original stitching holes (like when you re-stitch leather garments). Obviously, unless you are using a chain stitch machine, then your new hem will not have chain stitching.

Done this way, the hems are a little stiffer due to the extra layers of fabric. Obviously it's only worth going to this trouble if your hems had some kind of factory finish to them that you wanted to preserve.

[urban sprawl]

ringring: as i mentioned earlier it's getting tougher to the mere eye to recognize fabrics from a shutterloom and also to recognize ring-ring...well now, it's enough!

btw, all you said is ditto. respect and i'm still a student too and very excited to learn from you too!

35mm: the prps you mean have an all-over starch in it. i was really disappointed of their latest line. seems akademiks (don) has more power...too bad, the production manager used to be the vp of production @ 45rpm.

leviathan: yeah i saw the spotted horse ones from yohji. man they're us$800 for just pure indigo! also if you see yohji's other jeanswear...kinda funky. but i like his other non-denim stuff.

thx for the site, i love the sorahiko and aihikos from 45rpm... didnt know that yohji was using the spotted horse for a long time.

btw, were you asking to hem your jeans (shorten) or lengthen them? sorry didnt get it..

Edited by urban sprawl on Apr 1, 2005 at 11:57 PM

[soultek]

All posts here have been regarding the denim itself, it has really been enlightening.

I was hoping to get opinions on how best to care for high quality denim such as this so that it will wear/age in a good way (meaning that it will look better with age). I am referring to raw denim, not jeans that are already pre-worn and artifacted.

I have heard using a machine dryer is something definitely not to do. Other than shrinking, why is this? will it make the jeans have that "fuzzy" look?

I have a pair of Dope & Drakkar jeans that I have just put in the washing machine without soap inside out. Then I hang dry it. The effect seems to be to just lighten the worn parts of the denim.

PRPS recommends hand washing/rinsing and then drying in the sun.

I wanted to hear other peoples opinions on getting looking their best with age. (also things not to do that would ruin a pair of expensive jeans)

[ringring]

Welcome Soultek.

There's 2 main directions you can take - frequent wash and infrequent wash.

The latter will give you more contrast (and can be addictive), whilst the former will give you much lighter jeans (and something more akin to the real vintage jeans look).

Obviously the amount of abrasion the jeans are subjected to, will greatly effect the whiskers, honeycombs, kneepatches, hems etc.

There are plenty of past threads about this topic on this forum, so try a seach. Also there's lots pictorial references on the web for worn jeans, with descriptions of how they have been worn and washed. Here's a few....

http://denim-gallery.heavy.jp/collection.html - a whole collection of jeans that have been worn a lot with mostly infrequent washing.

http://denim-gallery.heavy.jp/eternal_811-5.html - jeans that have been washed relatively frequently. (this pic shows results after 9 months and 7 washes).

http://letgoasyoulike.fc2web.com/sc1947.htm - shows a pair of Sugarcanes jeans going from One-Wash state, then worn and washed every month for a year.

http://www.45rpm.jp/denim/detail.jsp?id=010 - a pair of jeans that has been washed frequently over 7 years of use.

http://www.45rpm.jp/denim/detail.jsp?id=009 - a pair of jeans that has been washed infrequently over 7 years of use.

http://www.nudiejeans.com/thisisnudie/worn_jeans.php - a bunch of nudies that have been worn a lot before washing.

The only thing I wouldn't do is put a raw pair of jeans in a warm-hot machine wash without turning them inside put first. That's to avoid marks from creasing whilst inside the machine.

Edited by ringring on Apr 11, 2005 at 12:38 AM

[shinobi2000]

Hey ringring, those were great photos to illustrate the difference between the vertical and horizontal ring spun yarns. Thanks! It was very informative but I just want to further clarify...since you showed the front side to demonstrate "vertical" but the back to demonstrate "horizontal"...I'm not sure how to imagine ringring spun fabric. You say just imagine a combo. Do you mean that if a fabric has the vertical slubby lines on the front but the diagonal white slubby lines on the back...then that is "ring-ring"? Wouldn't having both vertical and horizontal ringspun yarn make the back look different? I think it would help if I saw how the back of the vertical type looks so that I can imagine it with the back of the horizontal type you showed. I have a pair of Prps that look like the vertical ringspun type but the back does not have the diagonal white lines of the horizontal type. How do I know if this is just plain vertical or ringring? I'm sorry this has turned into a tongue twister but you guys have made me REALLY curious about this! I never realized denim was this detailed! Thanks in advance.

[leviathan]

Thanks for the further resource ringring - the denim gallery ones in particular were excellent. I'm breaking in a pair of Levis repro 55s at the moment - been doing the hand rubbing and light (very) papering. Getting proper abbrasion/wear on thighs. I think they'll look Ok after first wash, but it's a pain having to wait. Only had them for three weeks or so - thinking 'll wait another month or two and then cold or tepid soak them with no soap just to loosen out the dye in the worn areas.

Urban Sprawl - the YYs are more expensive this season than ever before, and they were still expensive before. I got a pair from 2002 at about £350 and they're now at £530!!! I think the difference is that this season's appear to be spotted horse jeans rather than YY, with just a YY label on the back. Not sure how this works, but there's some distinction drawn between thier various commercial activities in a sectin on their website. So the current ones have spotted horse branded rivets etc whereas before it was YY Jeans. The jeans are cut more narrow now too. In fact they look almost identical to 45rpms, and I suppose, similar-ish in price point. They are very nice though - if only they weren't so long! (I'm needing them taking up by the way). Actually I've found a not too bad way of doing this. Cuff the jeans with a much bigger cuff than you want (say 5-6 inches) and then fold in the jean at the bottom an inch or two. You then have a shorter jean with a shallower cuff. YOu then iron down the inside with wondaweb or some kinf of invisible stich. That way you retain the visible original chain stitching an finishing. The cuff is of course a little thicker than it would be but it looks Ok actually.

[ringring]

Hello Shinobi2000

Let's see if I can make it simple.

Denim is composed of 2 sets of yarns. Vertical (warp), which is blue, and horizonal (weft) which is white. When both the warp and weft are made of ringspun yarns, then the denim is called a Ring-Ring denim.

I used the example of back and front views to make things simple (or so I thought LOL). You can actually tell if a denim is Ring-Ring by looking only at the underside of the denim. But in reality, you would already have seen the warp yarn before you turned the fabric over to check the weft.

I would be surprised if your PRPS weren't Ring-Ring. If the backside of your jeans don't have the 'diagonal white lines', then it may be a broken twill (another type of weave). Concentrate on the actual yarn, and not the weave. If the yarn is slubby, then it's ringspun.

Does that help?

Leviathan -you're welcome . To break in your jeans try breakdancing on carpet, preferably traditional japanese straw tatami LOL.

[Kairo]

Sprawl-itecture. You're the biggest nerd I know. If you get to Japan first you better hook my ass up.

Moderation in all things. Hey John, it's only Fashion!

[urban sprawl]

hehe the good ol story about breaking-in. well leviathan, it's all about love - giving and taking, patience and endurance!;P no seriously, do you really wanna buy fresh new raw denim and then little by little cheat by using a sandblock...? c'mon man! you can do better? you gotta sweat and bleed in it. it really needs your own whiskers and chevrons, your own wallet and cellphone mark! then after a year you are allowed to dry clean them... do i sound to fascist?...just treat as a child...

or use ringring's suggestion: "breakdancing on carpet, preferably traditional japanese straw tatami" which is the better one!;p

actually a friend of mine got the raw natural indigo ones (which btw seem to never break-in due to the power of indigo). so he took it to our snowboarding trip and skied in them - left some blue lines on the snow...just kidding.

btw, the 45rpm's sorahiko (pure indigo) are cheaper than the yoji's one - almost the half. 45rpm are only more expansive unless it's the natural indigo or bespoke denim.

re hemming, if you live in nyc you can go to 45rpm and get them hemmed w/chainstitch for $10. afterwards i suggest (only then! a light self-sanding @ the fresh hem...hehe.

shinobi: the prps are ring-ring 3x1. unless you use a magnifying glass, it's really not that easy to identify nowadays ring/ring from others. it's also more difficult to explain it in words...good job ring-ring btw!

Edited by urban sprawl on Apr 4, 2005 at 06:46 PM

[urban sprawl]

btw, who likes to roll their hems up and shows off the selvedge? if - how high or maybe how many rolls?

(i personally don't roll it up. keep it my own little secret. but if i'm in an odd mood i do one short one by 3/4")

[wild_whiskey]

I only roll them up if they are too long.

[trinket]

urban sprawl: "3x1" is that talking about warp vs weft? How can we recognise that? Is it the angle that the diagonal stripes make on the back of the cloth?

_trinket

[donjuan]

Guys

Just want to thank you for your knowledge. This post has truly been an education.

[ringring]

Let's see if this works....

3x1 (three over x one under)

||| ||| ||| |||

|| ||| ||| |||

| ||| ||| ||| |

2x1 (two over x one under)

|| || || || ||

| || || || ||

|| || || || ||

[kremedla]

hey guys.

as always great to get more of ring double's knowledge on denim and so many others as well. here is a link of some gucci selvage i picked up a few months back. hopefully this link will work....

[http://www.kodakgallery.com/BrowsePhotos.jsp?&collid=992704041205&page=1&sort_order=0]

[ringring]

Blingissimo!

Niiice selvage Kremedia. Have you worn them much?

On the theme of 'fashion selvage', I noticed Hugo Boss are doing some this season too. The world's shuttle looms must be really buzzing at the moment.

[hahnstch]

hey kremedia, i saw a similar gucci jeans on ebay last time, are you the winner of the item? lol. i like the selvedge edge, very 'gucci'. marc jacobs is producing some selvedge jeans as well, i saw it in flesh a few weeks ago on their flagship store in NY, looks very well tailored.

btw, is it possible to have a stretch selvedge denim? i notice that my bape x stash denim (which i think is a selvedge, given the edge) has some stretchy feel

[kremedla]

ring dub,

have you seen the new rogan hemp 'selvage'? looking at them yesterday it seemed a bit strange in that it looks as though the seam with the r logo has simply been sewn on for the sake of making it look selvage. the jeans are an interesting colour and quite heavy, but i am leaning towards the prps purple selvages at the moment. have worn the guccis a few times and they are very nice, subtle details and actually not too bling.

hahnstch,

got a very good deal at a second hand store in covent garden therefore got to try and see them firsthand before getting them. not a huge fan of ebay actually....

[ringring]

Kremedia - thanks for (another) heads up on the Rogans. I'll try and get a look next week. Got a full length pic of the Gucci's?

[urban sprawl]

the rogan selvedge are from last year. the denim is a cotton/hemp blend i think by kurabo.

yeah everone is doin it!...

if you like the prps selvedge - did you check out the jean shop ones?

[Geowu]

nice guccis. I would like to see more pics too.

[hahnstch]

i saw a sick pair of rogan selvedge at henry lehr today. never seen it at any other stores before. and the price is insane too, $619... also, i notice that earnest sewn is riding the selvedge bandwagon as well...

[Lazylinepainter]

Hi,

I was hoping someone could suggest a fix for my problem.

I have a pair of Evis raw selvedge denim jeans. I washed them cold and they now fit perfectly apart from the waist band. I generally leave the top botton undone. Is there anyway to unshrink the waistban?

Any help or (constructive) advice appreciated.

Cheers

[Geowu]

maybe you can have them tailored

[wild_whiskey]

Lazyline - if they are unwashed, they will stretch out over time. You might want to wait till the next washing period, then when the jeans are still wet, pull VERY HARD on the waist, or put them on and button all the buttons so that the waistline can stretch out. Your legs will be blue and you might want to lay out in the sun for awhile to ensure that they do not shrink too much, but at least your jeans you paid $300+ for have a chance of fitting.

[Serge d Nimes]

That same fucking thing happend to me! My evisus were painful to wear till they stretched a little!

I'm not illiterate, I just can't type!

[darknworn]

From what I've seen, you can try to stretch it out using a plastic hanger. They're bendable, so given that the width of the hanger is a bit wider than the waist, you may be able to stretch it out a bit. Insert the hanger inside your jeans, then squeeze the width until the part with the most tension is where you want to stretch out the waist band. If this doesn't work, you can find a stretcher commonly used in carpentry at any hardware shop. This is a more heavy duty solution and you should get at least .5" from the waist. My tailor advised against taking out the waist band in jeans because the rear yoke also needs to be adjusted, thus more or less will ruin the look of the jeans.

Last resort, I'd be interested in buying them if the waist is around 30".

Good luck.

[Lazylinepainter]

Cheers for the advice guys.

I'll give stretching a go.

Tell me, what do you think of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3968069602&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

A bit like the levis tuxedos from oki-ni. Any one know anything about them?