Spruce and Wings&Horns!!!!

[guffer]

i will try here thanks

wanted - spruce/w&h - pm me if you are selling...

[hahnstch]

so kane, could you give me an update of the official spruce / w&h stockists in the states or rather, NY?

[LA Guy]

Quote:

so kane, could you give me an update of the official spruce / w&h stockists in the states or rather, NY?

--- Original message by hahnstch on Feb 17, 2006 07:32 AM

That would really be useful on a website. People want what is *difficult* to obtain, but if they have no idea where it can be had... well, let's say that only people who inhabit boards like this would phone every possible high end retailer they know to find a piece. I know that HTC had Wings & Horns, as did Ron Herman, that Jake in Chicago had a few pieces, as did Nom de Guerre, Steven Alan, and Famous Friends in NYC. I know that Stel's in Boston had it for a season, then dropped it. Other than than though, I can't think of any US retailers stocking it. Also, who is representing in the States now that Steven Alan is not?

As for a webstore, I think that this is not such a bad idea if you are a *small* operation, like The Cast www.thecast.com that gets only press in niche magazines like Complex. It also works for huge conglomerates like LVMH, with their eluxury.com site (which offers Dior Homme, as well as lots of otherwise easily obtainable mid-range brands and diffusion brands like James Perse and Marc for MJ) that fly under their flag.

For a larger company offering goods at the high mid-pricepoint like Wings & Horns and Spruce, who rely on distribution rather than price to keep exclusive I agree with Kane that opening a webstore could be a potential disaster. This is especially important given that Spruce and Wings & Horns are not as "knowledge" exclusive as, say, The Cast or Oliver Helden. Spruce products have been featured in editorials in GQ and Cargo (although, in the latest edition of Cargo, which features the exact hoodie I am wearing now, I was thinking: umm... I think that that hoodie is a season old and pretty much sold out, even on Rakuten-explorer.)

Edit: the Cast has actually been featured in Cargo (one of last season's tees) - but it was definitely is under the radar compared to the front and center Spruce hoodie featured.

Edited by LA Guy on Feb 17, 2006 at 09:14 AM

[MyMindSpray]

i personally have mixed emotions when it comes to having website presence...in my opinion, the internet has taken some of the fun out of this "culture"...the hunt is gone...i think most of us that have been in the game for a very long time would agree that there's no better feeling when shopping, than the anticipation of what might be available when you stop in at your local boutique...before the internet blew up with all the information now available, it use to be fun learning about new brands through word of mouth or just being involved in the culture and hunting on your own...to me, the internet takes some of the fun out of what we, or more specifically I, love...

i see the positives from a business perspective as you gain exposure, etc, etc...but as a consumer, it saddens me that many people out there are just too lazy to "dig" and would rather have things handed to them on a plate...

wings&horns / spruce has done a nice job of creating quality products and using that quality along with word of mouth to gain modest popularity...there's alot to be said in their approach...when out in japan last year, i noticed a high level of respect for the brand...and mags like mens non-no continue to give the line proper exposure...(it's nice to see a canadian brand getting love overseas!!)...

in the end, a web presence would be alright if properly done ( i do like the nonnative/hobo site)...but sometimes i miss the good old days when things didn't come so easy...

just my thoughts...

[yuljo]

I think having a lookbook would be best with maybe a webstore for the more common items but within the lookbook, withhold a couple of pieces so when people do hunt for the stuff some of it will be a surprise.

[sr20det]

i'm with spray on this one. half the fun was the hunt. sourcing it on your own, whether it be from the states, europe, asia, or even finding a local stockist in your hood. how many "heads" were born from this site alone? followed a link to a link, to a niketalk mention of dry denim, to yo this is what my local spot is carrying so now i'm gonna google this label to be down. it ain't the same. it's just so funny because to quote a friend of mine... "where were you 5 years ago?" there was a time on this board where i was down to hook up anyone who asked for help. now? i'm quite reluctant. anyone ever read that interview on the creator of beinghunted??? his response to the internet is exactly how i feel.

http://superfuture.com/city/supertalk/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=5508

[Fuuma]

Quote:

i personally have mixed emotions when it comes to having website presence...in my opinion, the internet has taken some of the fun out of this "culture"...the hunt is gone...i think most of us that have been in the game for a very long time would agree that there's no better feeling when shopping, than the anticipation of what might be available when you stop in at your local boutique...before the internet blew up with all the information now available, it use to be fun learning about new brands through word of mouth or just being involved in the culture and hunting on your own...to me, the internet takes some of the fun out of what we, or more specifically I, love...

i see the positives from a business perspective as you gain exposure, etc, etc...but as a consumer, it saddens me that many people out there are just too lazy to "dig" and would rather have things handed to them on a plate...

wings&horns / spruce has done a nice job of creating quality products and using that quality along with word of mouth to gain modest popularity...there's alot to be said in their approach...when out in japan last year, i noticed a high level of respect for the brand...and mags like mens non-no continue to give the line proper exposure...(it's nice to see a canadian brand getting love overseas!!)...

in the end, a web presence would be alright if properly done ( i do like the nonnative/hobo site)...but sometimes i miss the good old days when things didn't come so easy...

just my thoughts...

--- Original message by MyMindSpray on Feb 17, 2006 09:47 AM

Maybe but from a more practical level, taking W&H and Spruce as an exemple, web presence would definitely simplify the hunt as these labels AREN'T sold where I live. Being able to see the new collection online and call a list of stores selling the goods would greatly simplify my life. Sincerely a community of a few hundred people disseminated all over the world (mostly NA though) getting the same goods as me won't really leave me feeling like I lost some cred or my experience was diminished.

[LA Guy]

Quote:

i personally have mixed emotions when it comes to having website presence...in my opinion, the internet has taken some of the fun out of this "culture"...the hunt is gone...i think most of us that have been in the game for a very long time would agree that there's no better feeling when shopping, than the anticipation of what might be available when you stop in at your local boutique...before the internet blew up with all the information now available, it use to be fun learning about new brands through word of mouth or just being involved in the culture and hunting on your own...to me, the internet takes some of the fun out of what we, or more specifically I, love...

i see the positives from a business perspective as you gain exposure, etc, etc...but as a consumer, it saddens me that many people out there are just too lazy to "dig" and would rather have things handed to them on a plate...

wings&horns / spruce has done a nice job of creating quality products and using that quality along with word of mouth to gain modest popularity...there's alot to be said in their approach...when out in japan last year, i noticed a high level of respect for the brand...and mags like mens non-no continue to give the line proper exposure...(it's nice to see a canadian brand getting love overseas!!)...

in the end, a web presence would be alright if properly done ( i do like the nonnative/hobo site)...but sometimes i miss the good old days when things didn't come so easy...

just my thoughts...

--- Original message by MyMindSpray on Feb 17, 2006 09:47 AM

I dunno. When I went to LA in 1997, I was just looking for cool stuff myself (and going to grad school, of course). Internet communities were not nearly as developed as they were today. In 1998, I got hooked up with a buyer through a mutual friend, and pretty soon, as well as dating her, I was "hunting", going to shows, showrooms, asking random people on the street that had cool stuff on how to get hooked up, trying to put my ear to the ground and also trying to predict stuff while staying true to my own roots (lots of milsurp and western gear mixed in with denim and some skate elements. I was never a skater, but always liked elements of that style.)

Yes, it was always really a great feeling to find something new. I had a pair of Paper Denims from their first collection, when the tag was satin and the font was different, and the brand was essentially unknown but made a quality jean (actually, that first collection was more repro inspired than later collections) I persuaded a few people to buy DSquared2 back when the label just read D2. I was wearing Nice Collective stuff when it could only be had from fabric8.com. And I remember shelling out $110 for a pair APC Anglaise, which was a huge amount of money, back in 1997, before APC started any form of distribution outside of their stores and mailorder and the NYC, Paris, and Tokyo stores were the only place you could find the stuff. But it was just as fun, maybe more, telling people that what great stuff I'd found, and hook them up. To me, these communities (I moderate the Styleforum when it is working - i.e. not right now) are just another way of sharing the love. I mean, I would love it if everyone was into APC because it makes a great jean at a (still, relatively) great price, and not because some people on an internet board says that they are cool and that Sevens suck, but in the end, who cares?

[Kane]

Right now, the majority of the goods are being sold in Japan.

I was wondering last night if there were a Japanese version of Superfuture, and how interesting it would be being able to lurk through it and understand what -they- were saying.

From feedback from sales, the North American and Japanese and European markets are quite different in their preferences. Even within the North American Markets... heck, right here in Supertalk, I've read comments like "the cuffs are too long" and then "I like the long cuffs" and "I prefer Wings & Horns because it's more interesting than Spruce" and then "I really like the simple clean no-logo concept of Spruce".

But despite all these differing opinions, the concensus seems to be (not to toot my own trumpet) generally the response is positive.

I'm planning to head to Japan sometime in May. It'll be interesting to see first-hand how and where our pieces are presented. Still, it'll be really interesting to find out what the man-on-the-street in Tokyo is thinking about our stuff.

[wild_whiskey]

Kane - really appreciate your comments. They've given me some nice insight into the business, as odd as that sounds.

So you say that S/W&H are going to be available at Fred Segal in LA? Do you mean, like, I could say, drive up to LA tomorrow and it would be there, waiting for me, possibly smiling at me?

On web presence - I think you're doing a pretty stellar job of instilling curiosity and rabid obsession (in some cases) for Spruce/W&H products and I think you're right - an online shop makes it all too easy and will even lower some credibility, the way I see it (I mention this because I have a similar feeling about APC). You dont want to turn the brand into a catalogue, or an online Urban Outfitters (Threadless). A web page with perhaps a few pictures would help the image, similar to what Griege had (I cannot find their web page now). Dont wanna go too far like Nice Collective.

As for the Surface 2 Air thing, I was one of those who pointed that out, and while I stand by it, I can't seem to find the shirt that it reminded me of. Coincidences happen. I remember seeing it on Breakbeat Science.

[minya]

Quote: Dont wanna go too far like Nice Collective.

Too far???

I really like NC's website. A bunch of shots of people wearing the clothes.

[Kane]

On the website which displayed the W&H tee, the little patch on the bottom left was described as a 'wound', I think. It's supposed to be a Dandelion seeding little stiletto blades. There's even one on the back left shoulder of the garment that's not shown (that was one of my contributions to the design).

I personally hadn't even heard of Surface to Air until the forum posting (Yeah, I'm relatively sheltered to labels out there, but for some reason that's how they like me).

Maybe the Designers had seen or heard of the design, or it could be another one of those spooky coincidences, but <shrug> eh.

I'm certain we wouldn't have outright copied a concept or design. There are a lot of "interpretations" and a lot of current graphics are driven by the reinterpretation of nostalgic memories or icons. Of course, that is an entirely different topic (though a cool one).

[Kane]

I was tossing around the idea of a photo gallery as a format for a website, but I don't know if that feels right either.

Personally, magazine spreads of people doing various activities don't really draw me to the clothing.

For example, going through an Abercrombie or American Apparel catalogue feels like flipping through some very mild soft porn. As I go through the pictures, I get less and less interested in the clothing and more curious about the people. But maybe that's just me.

And really, I don't want to do a site where we're zooming into stitch detail and geometric measurements and stuff either.

Another project that I've been working on is the developing of mission statements or statements of purpose for W&H and Spruce, and I find that's really tough too. I don't think people need to read about how ANOTHER company is out there looking to make the WORLD'S BEST <yadda>.

Tough enough trying to figure out who or what I am, now we've wanting to give birth to these new pseudo personalities! Hm. Maybe we're just trying too hard.

[minya]

I, too, kind of got a "Surface to Air" impression from the "knives" W&H tee. Partially it's the off-symmetry print, since S2A seemed to do a lot of that (obviously not exclusive to their designs either). Something about the knives really just reminds me of Surface to Air.

Kane, do you know if the cut of the S/S 06 W&H t-shirts have changed? My experience with last season's was that they were short and wide.

[Kane]

Heh. Yeah, I've noticed that you've mentioned that numerous times.

I believe the cut is different. I remember saying something about that that season, but for whatever reason, they still came out a little short.

This would be for just W&H, right? I think the Spruce tees came out good.

[minya]

Yeah. The medium tee I had was really short. And a little wider than I'd prefer, but still really short. (Somewhere around 24" in length, I think?)

Yeah, just W&H. The Spruce stuff was fine length-wise.

[Fuuma]

Quote:

Heh. Yeah, I've noticed that you've mentioned that numerous times.

I believe the cut is different. I remember saying something about that that season, but for whatever reason, they still came out a little short.

This would be for just W&H, right? I think the Spruce tees came out good.

--- Original message by Kane on Feb 18, 2006 12:30 AM

One of the things I like about W&H AND Spruce is that their Smalls are actually made for people who wear small not mediums who want a slightly tighter fit. The shirts aren't too long, the armholes are high and the sleeves cut tight at shoulder and wrist level (for l-s).

I'll probably call Nomad to get the "winged" W&H tee so hmm if the lenght has changed please tell me^^

Edited by Fuuma on Feb 18, 2006 at 10:42 AM

[LA Guy]

Quote:

Kane - really appreciate your comments. They've given me some nice insight into the business, as odd as that sounds.

So you say that S/W&H are going to be available at Fred Segal in LA? Do you mean, like, I could say, drive up to LA tomorrow and it would be there, waiting for me, possibly smiling at me?

On web presence - I think you're doing a pretty stellar job of instilling curiosity and rabid obsession (in some cases) for Spruce/W&H products and I think you're right - an online shop makes it all too easy and will even lower some credibility, the way I see it (I mention this because I have a similar feeling about APC). You dont want to turn the brand into a catalogue, or an online Urban Outfitters (Threadless). A web page with perhaps a few pictures would help the image, similar to what Griege had (I cannot find their web page now). Dont wanna go too far like Nice Collective.

As for the Surface 2 Air thing, I was one of those who pointed that out, and while I stand by it, I can't seem to find the shirt that it reminded me of. Coincidences happen. I remember seeing it on Breakbeat Science.

--- Original message by wild_whiskey on Feb 17, 2006 10:50 PM

Hey WW,

Got your hoodie yesterday. Very cool. Now I gotta wash it. I'll probably do everything on hot to shrink it up and crack the paint and fade the shirt. I've been thinking of overdying it too, maybe in indigo or wine. Not sure yet. Altogether, very nice.

Greige is gone baby. One of the principals started a company called "Noble" in a similar vein. Gary may be carrying it come fall.

Kane, I think that many companies like their designers isolated to some degree. Otherwise, it's just too easy to let other people's influences creep into your designs. Some companies I know do this, and then have another group of people (I've done this) who keep up with the scene, go to trade shows, etc... to make sure that their stuff is fresh and not overly derivative or could be perceived to be so. Right now, if I had to design a line, I'm sure that it would be a mixture between Spruce, Engineered Garments, and The Cast, (I actually have drawn several templates for a cut and sew hoodie, and they all turn out looking like Spruce married to Rogues Gallery - nice, but so, so unoriginal) and that any denim designs I turned out would have obvious references to 5EP, Corpus, and Rag & Bone. It's just so easy to be influenced by the stuff you see out there. Illustrators and graphic designers have told me that it's incredibly difficult to keep the creative mind unpolluted.

[LA Guy]

Yeah, the markets are so different, even within Europe. For example, in southern Europe, the Swedish clean aesthetic is just not that appealing. Nudie, for example, so popular in Northern Europe and now the US, totally bombed in Spain.

One buyer (from San Francisco, but working in Spain) told me that she had to completely recalibrate her aesthetic sensibilities when buying for the Spanish (Madrilenos) market. The typical customer is a lot more body conscious, like a *lot* more color and embellishment.

[LA Guy]

BTW, just to answer the question from the "Build your own sweatshirt" thread, the people I talked to at CYC are totally cool. I don't remember who gave me the number, but it is hardly a secret (they do like to do business, after all, and if lawstudent wants it, he can PM me. I was originally contacting them because I wanted another fleece, and told them I couldn't find a US stockist with what I wanted, and the woman I spoke with (C? don't remember her name) was really helpful. Even looked at leftover stock, and told me what they had (unfortunately, nothing in my size in the colorways I was interested in) and within a couple of hours, which is super fast. And they were more than happy to tell me who to contact re. cut-and-sews, although I ultimately decided against that route.

[minya]

I just stopped by Nomad... they had a bunch of the W&H S/S 06 pieces in... and as expected, I bought a bunch of them.

I scored:

- white tiger "Wings & Horns" tee

- grey "samurai mask" tee, w/ discharge print on shoulder; totally amazing

- black "angel wings" tee

- black crew sweatshirt with a large, very thick "puff paint" print of a crow with the "wings & horns" logo on the back

also picked up a Spruce thermal and a Spruce longsleeve at 60% off!!

Today was a very good day!!

pictures of all of the above when I get home.

[PG2G]

wild_whiskey, Ron Herman definitely does have W&H in stock. I just came back. They had all of the new tshirts and a black sweatshirt, probably everything that minya listed

[wild_whiskey]

Quote:

wild_whiskey, Ron Herman definitely does have W&H in stock. I just came back. They had all of the new tshirts and a black sweatshirt, probably everything that minya listed

--- Original message by PG2G on Feb 18, 2006 02:04 PM

Cool man thanks for the info. I was more concerned with Spruce, to be honest, but I can just call them for more info on that.

This guy who owns a shop in San Diego told me that F/W 05 is the last time Spruce/W&H will be carried in the US, and the only other places are JPN/CAN. Can you confirm? Sorry to nag you.

LA Guy, I'll make sure you to get you a hoodie next time without the print so far down on it. I didnt realize how low the print was, but yea.. I'm working on fixing my ways. hehe

[jiomitori]

Are there any places you can call that will ship you a Spruce sweatshirt? Does Spruce have a phone number?

[hahnstch]

Quote:

Quote:

wild_whiskey, Ron Herman definitely does have W&H in stock. I just came back. They had all of the new tshirts and a black sweatshirt, probably everything that minya listed

--- Original message by PG2G on Feb 18, 2006 02:04 PM

Cool man thanks for the info. I was more concerned with Spruce, to be honest, but I can just call them for more info on that.

This guy who owns a shop in San Diego told me that F/W 05 is the last time Spruce/W&H will be carried in the US, and the only other places are JPN/CAN. Can you confirm? Sorry to nag you.

LA Guy, I'll make sure you to get you a hoodie next time without the print so far down on it. I didnt realize how low the print was, but yea.. I'm working on fixing my ways. hehe

--- Original message by wild_whiskey on Feb 18, 2006 10:15 PM

i still manage to find a few hoodies at nom de guerre 2 days ago, not sure whether that counts as fw 05 or ss 06

[minya]

pictures

http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wh32kq.jpg -> tiger shirt

http://img445.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wh23ik.jpg -> crow sweatshirt

http://img351.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wh13az.jpg -> samurai shirt (with Spruce thermal inside)

[minya]

bonus picture: two Wings & Horns garment bags... what the clothing comes packaged in.

http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img01003io.jpg

[sybaritical]

Grr. All these pictures and storeis of 60%'s off are making me jealous. Does Spruce have a website?

[showbiz00ditc]

Minya:

how much was that white W&H t-shirt?

[Fuuma]

Quote:

pictures

http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wh32kq.jpg -> tiger shirt

http://img445.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wh23ik.jpg -> crow sweatshirt

http://img351.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wh13az.jpg -> samurai shirt (with Spruce thermal inside)

--- Original message by minya on Feb 19, 2006 03:11 PM

Did he get the black "winged" tee posted here (first picture):

http://highsnobiety.blogspot.com/2006/02/wings-horns-ss-06.html

and how much was it? If it's reasonnable I'll probably call and ask him to ship me this one and a white spruce l-s from last season

Edited by Fuuma on Feb 19, 2006 at 04:45 PM