Levi's 201 - 2002 vs 2007

[Paul T]

Beautiful jacket.Is it synthetic indigo? That would mean they produced it in both natural and synthetic versions, like the '1st blue jean.'

Here's the eBay jacket... tempting, although that natural indigo gives a washed-out look.It's a 555, from 2000.

[andewhall]

Hey guys. Looove 201's, prob my fav of all vintage jeans. I just noticed the back pockets on the LVC's are riveted and bartacked? They wouldn't have had the bar tack as well back in the day right? Might head off to Marvins website and marvel the 201's again and see.

[Dr_Heech]

It's the same denim as the 555 201's. It was one wash.

The pocket stitch is different from the rest of the jacket, it's that magenta/pinky orange again.

So your saying the 555 213 is natural indigo, rather than synthetic?

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[Paul T]

Actually, maybe those are the same, it's hard to tell from the photo. I did have a pair of the washed 201s and it's a little like those... but the weave looks exactly like the natural indigo Kurabo which they produced the same year.

Hey guys. Looove 201's, prob my fav of all vintage jeans. I just noticed the back pockets on the LVC's are riveted and bartacked? They wouldn't have had the bar tack as well back in the day right? Might head off to Marvins website and marvel the 201's again and see.

Which photo, ande? No bar-tacking on mine but I'm told my powers of observation are failing.

[Dr_Heech]

Hey guys. Looove 201's, prob my fav of all vintage jeans. I just noticed the back pockets on the LVC's are riveted and bartacked? They wouldn't have had the bar tack as well back in the day right? Might head off to Marvins website and marvel the 201's again and see.

Andewhall

I think they used bartacking back in the 20's/30's. There's a pic of the Cant bust 'em model A in Paul T's book.

The 1937 (original) Levis 201 had bar tacking. It was just that - bar TACKing. Then the pocket was folded over and stitched (over the concealed rivets). The tack just held them temporily in place. There's a pic a few pages back of a pair.

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[Dr_Heech]

Here we go ...

From the 2nd "lightining denim book".

An original pair of pre-war (1937-1941) 201's.

Hidden rivets + no suspender buttons and yellow stitching. Obviously, crotch rivet removed in 1941.

[andewhall]

This was the pic I was wondering about. It's definitely a bartack on top of the pocket in navy thread, not the fold over over hidden rivet style. Maybe they did have both at one stage? The bartack is actually pointless if the rivet is there, which makes me wonder if it's a mistake...as it would slow down production, being in navy thread it's an added extra 4 operations.

[Dr_Heech]

Who know's?

Lvc has a mind of it's own when it comes to authenticity (i.e. compared to an original model). Those were my 2005 re-issue, which also had the wrong arcs.

The 555 version I have, also has this bar-tacking albeit under the rivet more

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[Doug C]

Thanks to Doug over on the LVC thread for pointing out there are fake 213 jackets on sale, too.

Where's my + rep then ?

Do you guys remember a couple years back, the Levis stores were carrying a non selvaged version of the 507 jacket? It may have been the 506 but I think it was the 507. Anyway the price was around $70 IIRC, I almost got one from the store at the Galleria in Dallas, but ultimately decided against it. For all intents and purposes it was correct, I think it had a big E too. But the point is someone could post that jacket here and you guys would be all over it as being a thai fake. When in fact it was an authentic levis item. They don't always play by your rules and you can't know every item that has been produced especially from back in '98 or when ever they were first starting to reproduce 201 items. So they slapped a 201 label on a jacket, not many people back then had any idea that it was supposed to be 213. MHO.

[Doug C]

This was the pic I was wondering about. It's definitely a bartack on top of the pocket in navy thread, not the fold over over hidden rivet style. Maybe they did have both at one stage? The bartack is actually pointless if the rivet is there, which makes me wonder if it's a mistake...as it would slow down production, being in navy thread it's an added extra 4 operations.

Andewhall, you probably have FAKES... j/k . I actually own a pair of factory made 201 "mistake" jeans where some of the bronzed rivets were left off. I will post some pictures of them soon. But they also have the dark blue bar tacks that you've pointed out. To see these bar tacks better, look at the inside of the pants... clear as day from there.

[Dr_Heech]

Where's my + rep then ?

Do you guys remember a couple years back, the Levis stores were carrying a non selvaged version of the 507 jacket? It may have been the 506 but I think it was the 507. Anyway the price was around $70 IIRC, I almost got one from the store at the Galleria in Dallas, but ultimately decided against it. For all intents and purposes it was correct, I think it had a big E too. But the point is someone could post that jacket here and you guys would be all over it as being a thai fake. When in fact it was an authentic levis item. They don't always play by your rules and you can't know every item that has been produced especially from back in '98 or when ever they were first starting to reproduce 201 items. So they slapped a 201 label on a jacket, not many people back then had any idea that it was supposed to be 213. MHO.

Doug C

To recap. The 201 jean and the 213 jacket are well documented. There's enough collective knowledge on this Forum to spot fakes when it comes to Levis vintage clothing in general, Thai or otherwise.

It's this documentation and constant collective detective work by all of us which makes your last statement seem so naive.

Perhaps you could look back at this thread, and the Lvc one, read some of it and expand your knowledge , before jumping in and making random/unjustified comments about members here.

By the way, they DID know that it was supposed to be a 213 way back in 1995. I have pics somewhere. Will dig 'em out.

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[Doug C]

Doug C

Perhaps you could look back at this thread, and the Lvc one, read some of it and expand your knowledge , before jumping in and making random/unjustified comments about members here.

By the way, they DID know that it was supposed to be a 213 way back in 1995. I have pics somewhere. Will dig 'em out..

You know as well as I that Levis hasn't always cared if the details were correct, sure they would have known the 201 label was wrong but who's to say they would have given a shit (can you say 1937 201) and most consumers wouldn't have had a clue at that early point. Now, as far as educating myself.. I can assure you I have completely read every thread here regarding LVC as I lurked for quite a while before I started posting. More importantly I've bought many LVC items and even have a very genuine pair of "factory mistake" 201s, and have been so persistant because you guys refuse to believe they exist. I even offered to send them to Paul in the other thread, so he could inspect and photograph them. I stand beside my original comments that you guys don't know for sure that the jeans posted in the other thread are fake just by the very small group picture that was offered - wheather you've written a book or not. Ya'll can go on believeing what you want, I'm done trying to convence anyone that there are other possibilities. I regret even trying and strikeing such a nerve here. I've decided that I'm better off just lurking so this is my last post here at superfuture. I hope there's no hard feeling. All the best, and happy holidays to all !

[jpsmith98]

Do you guys remember a couple years back, the Levis stores were carrying a non selvaged version of the 507 jacket? It may have been the 506 but I think it was the 507. Anyway the price was around $70 IIRC, I almost got one from the store at the Galleria in Dallas, but ultimately decided against it. For all intents and purposes it was correct, I think it had a big E too. But the point is someone could post that jacket here and you guys would be all over it as being a thai fake. When in fact it was an authentic levis item. They don't always play by your rules and you can't know every item that has been produced especially from back in '98 or when ever they were first starting to reproduce 201 items. So they slapped a 201 label on a jacket, not many people back then had any idea that it was supposed to be 213. MHO.

I'm not going to pretend that I understand what you are trying to argue (that levis makes good counterfeit levis?) but I bought one of the STF jackets in question a couple of years ago in the SF Levis store. Here's some pics, for what it's worth (no big E):

[erk]

one of you jerks with the 20s 201 needs to post a decent fit pic. I've been trying to look at one for a year now. Paul T? Dr. Heech? come on, throw us a bone here.

[Dr_Heech]

one of you jerks with the 20s 201 needs to post a decent fit pic. I've been trying to look at one for a year now. Paul T? Dr. Heech? come on, throw us a bone here.

Look Erk (Lol)

My ideal size in a (555) 201 jean is 34 waist, but according to the shrink guidelines posted on this forum, the waist doesnt really shrink (I want mine to remain dark).

I have a pair of 36/38, which are too big.

Now I can don said clown trousers for you if you wish and take pix, but you're better off asking Mr. T, as He wears and washes his (ie - they fit).

.

[Paul T]

one of you jerks with the 20s 201 needs to post a decent fit pic....come on, throw us a bone here.

It's entirely the wrong weather for 201s - these need to be worn with a skinny white T-shirt, for that sailors out cruising on the town look. Today it's siling it down, so you get a bonus pic of a rainbow.

Thse are actual wiast size - I take a 32, these are 32, shrank maybe half an inch.

[Dr_Heech]

They look fine - nice full drape, good to see the denim breaking in gently (I think you've pointed out a few times how hard they are to break in). What year are that pair from, 2002 or 2007 ?

.... Would +Rep but GTS

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[erk]

Thanks Paul. They look fantastic. Much better than I expected, like doc said they've got a nice drape. They look good with the outfit too. Thanks for posting but I can't rep.

[akuma no uta]

Paul that is a great fit, love it!

But not as much as I love the tag "Doug talks bullocks"

[almostnice]

They look fine - nice full drape, good to see the denim breaking in gently (I think you've pointed out a few times how hard they are to break in). What year are that pair from, 2002 or 2007 ?

.... Would +Rep but GTS

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I have a 2007 pair,tagged 33-36 that is fully shrunk,streched to a w34.worn 2 or 3 times...

[Mr Black]

This is a pair of 555 201's- preesumably 2002?

Not worn them in ages, but shows how they wear in.

[crownzip]

Paul, Great looking 201's. If it was a b&w photo you could be in a Dorthea Lange photo of a 1930's San Francisco bread line.

[Paul T]

Haha, thanks Crownzip, if my overdue check doesn't arrive soon I just might be...

Edit: Doctor, yes, they're the 2007. Akuma, it's actually bollocks but bullocks works just as well...

[The Clerk]

Cross posted from the LVC Thread... I thought that a look at my brothers 201'a might be of interest. I bought them for him in December 07 from Libertys in London. They're a size 32 32. Not sure how many times he's washed them... not many

[Dr_Heech]

Nice pics Clerk.

I've been let down again by a seller who's 'changed his mind' about selling me his 555 201's size 34/36.

Anybody out there with a 555 pair in 34/34 wishing to part with?

Money waiting for the right pair(- deadstock with tagged size 34/34)

Or swap my size 555 201 - 36/38

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[Paul T]

34 waist - what's your budget?

[Doug C]

This may not be very helpful as the picture is pretty bad, but just trying to add to the fit picture. 201s from SE '07 . These are a size 36x34 and are way bigger (after a few washes) than any of my 501s of the same size. Cinch is fully cinched. I'm five ten and a half... 180lbs. I have a love hate relationship with these ones.

[Paul T]

Another fake; probably better quality than the recent pair we discussed.

[Dr_Heech]

Here we go ...

From the 2nd "lightining denim book".

An original pair of pre-war (1937-1941) 201's.

And on Ebay now (X post from LVC thread) -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110472782756&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

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[ThomasK]

http://www.volls.de/index.php?cat=LEVIS_VINTAGE&product=LVC-201-1920-01

What year are they from? Probably 2007? Is 139 € either a good or bad price for the 201s? I think it might be OK.

How much did they cost back in 2007 (on average?)

Thanks