Levi's takes on Japanese Denim Resellers and Manufacturers

[khoiphan92]

wow... seriously... i think i remember reading a post showing a levis catalog with sidneylos pants in it saying thats how their pants will look or some jizz like that

[the black arm]

paul, i'm so sorry to hear about you getting ripped off like that. I'm sure whoever did it will be made responsible, its just a shame you have to waste your time and money enforcing a right an honest businessman wouldn't have taken advantage of in the first place.

i remember when the levi's thing broke, and getting all pissed off. Not that levi's didn't have the right, but that they were so short-sighted in being that hard-fisted. Then I started noticing the backlash and hype around getting your hands on all the japanese denim that it was assumed would be switching up some design elements. suddenly everything was limited edition. . . It appeared there might be an air of self-promotion wrapped up in such an unfortunate event, and it bummed me out. it's sad whenever the line between sharing info with a community and self-promotion gets blurred. at the end of the day the world didnt' stop, the same japanese denim co's are still making and selling denim (as far as i know), and some merchants were able to turnover some inventory a little faster than they would have otherwise.

[dralfonzo]

i just figure i'll point this out

go Levi's!

http://niketalk.yuku.com/topic/146909

smh

jesus christ! That is the kind of thing that really lowers my appreciation for a brand.

[anthonyoj]

just recently found out about this, pretty crazy to me.

its going to/has caused a lot of brands to step outside of the norm

[Somar]

ajchen just gave me a link to this post and I have to say: you could have seen this coming!

Levi's was the first one with the red tab and why would you copy that!? I mean, would any of you copy something from someone else if it was well known and already successful? Would you make your product look a LOT like something from a competitor just to have success?

I definitely wouldn't do that and I wouldn't want anything that I created (stitching, label patch, logo etc.) look anything like stuff from the competitors.

But it seems that a lot of Japanese brands would and luckily there is 'THE LAW'.

And somebody please sue LEVI'S for copying the converse style shoes and probably a lot of other stuff because they deserve it!

[beautiful_FrEaK]

you obviously don't get the whole reproduction style and meaning of this "copying" of the arcs&tab. See it as an homage to Levi's. And of course Levi's hold the rights for this branding...but not in Japan, that's why there is no problem about arcs&tabs inside of Japan. Just when the product leaves Japan, the trouble starts (started)

[aho]

^thanks b_F....

they're called "repro's" for a reason; although things have since evolved, expanded, and further specialized, you have to understand where things started from...

[anklspr]

Levi had to protect their trademarks from competitors for sure; I get that. But, at the time, even their Premium line wasn't all that great... they would have been lucky to have been confused for a pair of Flat Heads or Sugar Canes (my favorite old arcs). Just wish they could have given a few "passes" to companies that didn't compete in their price range.

[Cold Summer]

This whole thing is very similar to how Fender and especially Gibson have gone after guitar makers who "copy" their public domain guitar designs. Similar to the Japanese repro jeans, Japan is one of the only places where you can get high-quality replica guitars that far surpass the crummy American production specs.

The lawsuit thing doesn't really bother me because I couldn't care less about Levi's and I like the "new" pocket designs used by Flat Head, Iron Heart, etc. a lot more than the Levis arcs anyway. Whether Levis or Gibson, it's always depressing when a legendary American company outsources their labor or cuts corners making an inferior product, then attacks makers who try to do things the old fashioned way.

[exaptavist]

.

Edited October 9, 2015 by hoggreaser

[whackedout]

So what will happen if I order something from 2nd with red tabs?

[mr.invincible]

levis have bounty hunters. they'll find you, manually remove the tab, and then turn your new jawnz into cutoffs.

[whackedout]

Thanks!! I am going to cancel my order before it ships now!

[dawei94]

He's being sarcastic. This was 5 years ago, I ordered a pair of S710 a year or two ago from 2nd with a proxy, had no issues, and they didn't cut off the tab and remove the arcs or anything like that

[xchen]

^ I could be wrong but I don't think Levi's has changed their mind on this - loose lips sink ships

[Somar]

you obviously don't get the whole reproduction style and meaning of this "copying" of the arcs&tab. See it as an homage to Levi's. And of course Levi's hold the rights for this branding...but not in Japan, that's why there is no problem about arcs&tabs inside of Japan. Just when the product leaves Japan, the trouble starts (started)

Then please help me, (and maybe some others) understand.

I asked: ''I mean, would any of you copy something from someone else if it was well known and already successful? Would you make your product look a LOT like something from a competitor just to have success?''

Is this question not correct? Is it unfair to ask this? Please help me understand.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I thought you read the whole thread? Anyways…

Do you know how the whole reproduction thing started that brought us here and let us talk about raw denim that much? That paved the way for so many brands following that trend and philosophy (also your beloved N&F)

Well…first read this and then, if there are still some questions. Please ask.

http://www.japanesestreets.com/reports/1313/the-quest-for-perfect-jeans

About the ‘copying’: I think the words ‘reproduction’ and ‘homage’ are pretty self-explaining in regard to why these repro brands uses arcs that are inspired by Levi’s and also use a red tab.

Of course, that nearly ALL the brands following the Osaka 5 also did this…well…you can say it’s a lack of inspiration or just a way for them, that they also do high quality reproductions.

[Maynard Friedman]

Somar,

In many cases, of course the answer to your question is yes. I think you are either very young or very naive as brands copy other successful brands all the time. You can see this at a high street level where chain stores copy or interpret clothing from high end designers every season to bring a diluted/affordable version to the masses. You can also see it at markets where stall holders are offering snide or counterfeit gear for sale. Supermarkets try to make their own brand products look like familiar brands - this is known as 'passing off'. There are countless examples of this type of behaviour.

I think the Japanese denim context is different. Many of these jeans companies were creating their products as a homage to the past at a time when Levi's were no longer making their 'historic' products with selvage denim. Many would argue that the Japanese had improved upon the original American products with their lavish care and attention to detail, these were no pale imitations.

Just my 2c.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Maynard Friedman

[Somar]

@b_F: Thanks for the enlightening article about the Osaka 5! Just an amazing story. I didn't know that and I think a lot of people don't know this.

@M F: Young, maybe. Naive, definitely not. Not well informed and new to denim, that's the truth here.

But I'm still learning a lot. I'm posting and asking so much because I'm eager to learn more about denim. I'm also a person that says what my opinion is on a subject, even if there is a chance that I'm incorrect. I'm not afraid of what will come after that and I'm definitely not a wimp when it comes to criticism, but I think a lot of people are on forums. Criticism is necessary in every learning process and that's why I value it. Also, not everybody is willing to give an informative answer like you 2 did. For this I'm very thankful.