A MUST READ: WSJ - Is Admissions Bar Higher for Asians At Elite Schools?

[djrajio]

Why do colleges want diversity?

Fuck I wish I was black.

Short political correct answer: Because the world is diverse and with increasing globalization, having experience dealing with individuals of different cultures/backgrounds/etc. will become increasingly more important

More jaded long-winded answer: Because its been a politically charged issue for decades and minority coalition groups have pushed hard for greater representation. Because increasingly US World/News, et al., use diversity as a criteria in their ranking, which in turn, helps boost funding/bragging rights/status amongst the fiercely competitive college admission industry.

I think you should be proud to be whatever you are, even if your set of circumstances will be harder. In my industry (investment banking) all the top managing directors are white males. Even in my department, there isn't one african american. I can't even begin to comprehend how much more incredibly difficult it would be to excel in an industry known for its fraternity/collegate culture. IB is definitely not an industry where diversity is taken as a top priority.

Basically, whatever doesn't kill you, will make you stronger. And if you truly really want something, you'll do everything in your power to achieve it.

[poly800rock]

Why do colleges want diversity?

Fuck I wish I was black.

i don't even know how to answer that question...wait your from pittsburg right?

[apu]

well, i am from Australia, and now preparing for the GRE

i am planning to take the test around mid December, so i can use it to apply for a range of Universities in January

I have just finished my degrees, which are; bachelor of Bioinformatics Engineering and Bacehlor of Science (maj. in Biotechnology). I have absolutely no interest in the acedemic/research area, so i decided i'd like to turn to the commerce side of things, maybe get into management, which sort i am still looking around at the moment.

Personally, i think the Mathematical section of the GRE is a joke (but then i still cant get 100% correct which makes me a joke too). The Verbal section, i'll have to say i find the vocabulary section rather annoying, but do-able; just have to memorize all the GRE words and root-meaning, etc etc

The essay section, mmm.... should be ok (i hope)

By no means i am only aiming for the top Universities, but it is always good to give it a shot. My undergraduate grades are alrite (its around Distinction average, and i dont know what that is in the US system). I have participated/joined a few cirruculums in the past years, e.g. student associations, sporting associations, local sports clubs, etc. As with my letters of recommendations, they will be from my current Thesis supervisor, my faculty coordinator and one professor that i know quite well PLUS the CEO of a company where i worked for 3 months as an intern at the beginning of this year (the company is based in Silicon Valley but had a branch in Taiwan (thats where i am from))

i have all the time from now till the day i submit my applications, and to be realistic, i will be applying for a range of universities, i.e. ones in the top 5, then others in descending order in terms of difficulty of obtaining an offer.

I dont want to give myself high hopes but then would like to get into a descent University, so, if anyone here knows or can share some insights with me, i would truly appreciate your kindness.

cheers

What program are you planning on applying to? In psychology, my field, the most important thing about an applicant (in addition to grades and GRE score, though they're a lot less important that you might think) is how his or her research interests line up with faculty members at the target school and letters of recommendation.

[apu]

also, are they less likely to accept an overseas student c.f. to locals?

[red]

i hear sunflowers are in high demand.

in reality though, all those big name colleges are only dreams for me. shit. it makes me sad everytime i think about it.

[swooc]

This may sound kinda dumb, but what is so special about big name colleges? especially ones located in the US? What benefits do you get when attending such schools?

Benefits i can think of are having a resume that looks impressive, thus giving you a higher chance of getting a job, and better resources for researching. But to me this doesn't really justify reasons for attending such schools.

[Chicken]

better resources, better connections and people are suckers for brand names.

[poly800rock]

This may sound kinda dumb, but what is so special about big name colleges? especially ones located in the US? What benefits do you get when attending such schools?

Benefits i can think of are having a resume that looks impressive, thus giving you a higher chance of getting a job, and better resources for researching. But to me this doesn't really justify reasons for attending such schools.

you answered your own questions

[red]

better resources, better connections and people are suckers for brand names.

exactly.

im applying for sarah lawrence and syracuse for sure. colgate, rutgers, and some other schools are in consideration.

[Thorns]

Note: my previous post was meant to be a talking point, not necessarily my belief.

I simply don't agree with affirmative action in anything. It diminshes the accomplishments of truly talented people and stunts potential growth. I'm a mutt who looks white. There are so many different races and creeds in my family line that I really wouldn't feel comfortable calling myself anything but american. I agree completely with djrajio, except that the politically correct answer drives me nuts. In any american city or suburb you will run into enough different cultures simply in everyday life, that for it to be a goal in higher education is absurd. Currently I live in a ghetto. I voted in a housing project in the hill. (Thats the area of Pittsburgh that always gets shown on Cops.) We experience enough diversity crossing the street for a beer, we don't need quotas in college.

[onemancult]

Note: my previous post was meant to be a talking point, not necessarily my belief.

I simply don't agree with affirmative action in anything. It diminshes the accomplishments of truly talented people and stunts potential growth. I'm a mutt who looks white. There are so many different races and creeds in my family line that I really wouldn't feel comfortable calling myself anything but american. I agree completely with djrajio, except that the politically correct answer drives me nuts. In any american city or suburb you will run into enough different cultures simply in everyday life, that for it to be a goal in higher education is absurd. Currently I live in a ghetto. I voted in a housing project in the hill. (Thats the area of Pittsburgh that always gets shown on Cops.) We experience enough diversity crossing the street for a beer, we don't need quotas in college.

i think your position would be all fine and good if every college applicant in america were on a perfectly level playing field, but they aren't. also, if the playing field were level during and after college. but, it isn't.

if the only way to ensure that minorities have a crack at getting into major universities and have a chance to wield the name of said universities in order to simply begin the process of validating themselves as just as capable as their white counterparts is to force these major universities to institute quotas, then so be it.

i don't see affirmative action as a permanent, inescapable part of society. i see it as a long-term application of certain ideals that will hopefully help to ameliorate certain ingrained problems with racism and classism that are prevalent in american society. one day, if affirmative action works, there won't be a need for affirmative action- the old boys clubs across the country will have dissolved or changed their positions on blacks, hispanics, and asians, and the institutionalized racist/classist systems that they prop up will have come apart.

[poly800rock]

Note: my previous post was meant to be a talking point, not necessarily my belief.

I simply don't agree with affirmative action in anything. It diminshes the accomplishments of truly talented people and stunts potential growth. I'm a mutt who looks white. There are so many different races and creeds in my family line that I really wouldn't feel comfortable calling myself anything but american. I agree completely with djrajio, except that the politically correct answer drives me nuts. In any american city or suburb you will run into enough different cultures simply in everyday life, that for it to be a goal in higher education is absurd. Currently I live in a ghetto. I voted in a housing project in the hill. (Thats the area of Pittsburgh that always gets shown on Cops.) We experience enough diversity crossing the street for a beer, we don't need quotas in college.

i went to school in a shithole area of providence. not the bullshit east side old new england wealth crap. but walk out the door and the projects are to your left and right side. my old gf's apartment was in the projects. I lived in that area for 4 years, moved on up to the east side where Brown and RISD was, it sucked, no sense of community, so I moved back to the shithole area of providence to resume neighborhood living. The big similarity in both of our situations is that we both choose to live there. Regardless of the reason, mine for community, yours seemingly financial, we choose to live in respected communities. The black folk you mentioned above don't necessisarily have a choice. They were born there and maybe they will die there. To say that your situation being a proclaimed american mutt and your reasoning of disregarding affirmative action because you "live and voted" in the projects is ridiculous. While I in most part agree with you in saying that obviously the most qualified candidate should have the best chance at anything you have to look at why they are the best candidate as well. Is it because they paid for the best schooling, SAT prep, have great college counsolers, etc? And where do people who don't have the means to afford those benefits stand. I think thats the part you're overlooking. I agree with onemancult that in no way should affirmative action be a permanant fixture in education, the work force, etc, but it was enstated to level the playing field, and partially has done a good job in doing that so far. But I think the main point at what I'm getting at here, is that you, I, and most of this board all have/had the means to make choices in education, career, etc. There are many people who don't, and that's why we have affirmative action.

[Servo2000]

I'm excited for the day that people will be able to educate themselves to at least the ability to finish highschool with good grades entirely online, for free. I don't know why this hasn't happened yet, it makes more sense than state-funded public schools that become worse by the day.

Not as a stand-alone thing, mind you, this would be in addition to attending high school.

Next after that? Someone starts getting SAT prep and "rich people" type benefits online, level the playing field.

[xcoldricex]

thank you poly for holding down the fort. i don't think enough people understand why affirmative action is important and are just complaining that it affects them negatively when they don't comprehend the flipside. by no means is affirmative action the solution, but it's a start- because there are those upper class minorities that have all the resources necessary to excel, yet they can also take advantage of affirmative action... but the majority do not. i think that "the best candidates should get the spots" is narrow view to hold, since there are a lot of factors people cannot control that also deserve a chance. how well would you do in school if you had to worry about your personal saftey everyday, if you had to work two jobs to support your family, and the public school you went to was absolute shit (unqualified teachers, not enough resources, old ass textbooks, and counselor's who tell you you'll never make it to college)? diversity is important. in the profession i'm heading into, medicine, you need to have doctors that will be culturally competent enough to treat patients correctly. being a doctor is not just knowing what problem a person has and telling them what to do- you need to have personal connections and have an understanding of the person's culture, background, and the way they live. this applies to many professional jobs- and we're not going to have that kind of workforce if we don't have this diversity in the education system.

sorry this post isn't crafted well, but i've gotta study.

thorns, you wish you were black? please......

re: servo2000's post. because people are making money off education and they're not going to let that go easily....

[almondcrush]

rutgers

sunflower-san

if you end up at ru

shit will be so redic

broseph

i kid you not

[Servo2000]

[

re: servo2000's post. because people are making money off education and they're not going to let that go easily....

Oh, of course. I'm simply saying that I think it should happen. Maybe some billionaire will one day make it his pet cause, who knows. Of course, being the cynical bastard that I am, I immediately thought that everyone and their mother in the education system would surely attempt to shoot it down in every way possible. Of course, one can only hope that there's a few good people out there.

[jl3969]

this article doesnt really say anything people dont already know

-asians in america are collectively smarter than any other race

-the old white guard won't stand for that just like how they won't stand for any other race either.

-the old white guard twist up the rules to keep themselves on top.

the only difference between the deal with asians and blacks is that asians in america are scarier because they will actually have the intellectual capability to truly challenge white folks.if it were seriously a level playing field.

[apu]

Just wondering if anyone knows a website where i can get access to a list of Universities in the US. There are too many Universities and I dont know where to start~~

[PG2G]

the only difference between the deal with asians and blacks is that asians in america are scarier because they will actually have the intellectual capability to truly challenge white folks.if it were seriously a level playing field.

Ugh... not quite sure what to say about this one.

[poly800rock]

Just wondering if anyone knows a website where i can get access to a list of Universities in the US. There are too many Universities and I dont know where to start~~

there are WAY too many colleges and universities to sort through man, i'm sure there's a list out there....

i feel like explaining myself in this situation is pretty fucking ridiculous. If you went to college you should have the comprehension and understanding of how and why things are in place the way they are. Fuck it, i'd even say if you lived or have lived in and actually communicated with any minority you'd have some sort of understanding of why programs like affirmative action are in place. I can understand if you don't agree with it, but complete ignorance to previously mentioned problems are just stupid.

[Servo2000]

I'm still just not even sure why people concern themselves with disagreeing. I'm in highschool right now, and personally I appreciate them, even though as a white male I may ultimately be "discriminated" (hardy har har) against by them. I think I'd rather be somewhere diverse than somewhere that the only people are said white males, even if maybe it means I miss out on my first choice school, for whatever reason.

Then again, I'm applying to art schools and not Harvard, so maybe my outlook is biased by that somewhat.

[xcoldricex]

hooray for the model minorities! and black people are genetically less intelligent than other races!

it is usually because of a lack of diversity that people are ignorant about the previously mentioned problems. that or they have no understanding of other people's situations and no desire to understand because they are too self absorbed. at least that's my opinion.

[poly800rock]

I'm still just not even sure why people concern themselves with disagreeing. I'm in highschool right now, and personally I appreciate them, even though as a white male I may ultimately be "discriminated" (hardy har har) against by them. I think I'd rather be somewhere diverse than somewhere that the only people are said white males, even if maybe it means I miss out on my first choice school, for whatever reason.

Then again, I'm applying to art schools and not Harvard, so maybe my outlook is biased by that somewhat.

its not so much disagreeing i have a problem with, its the blatant ignorance that's blanketed as smart statments that bother me.

[poly800rock]

hooray for the model minorities! and black people are genetically less intelligent than other races!

but chris rock still claims that the NFL stands for niggah fucking large. so go figure.

[mono14]

The NBA definitely needs affirmative action.

[Servo2000]

The NBA definitely needs affirmative action.

Yeah, we poor whites need a foot in the door. See, it's because of our overall economic situation that we're at a distinct disadvantage. (10)

[jl3969]

asians in america are smarter than all other races in america. asians all over the world are not. but the ones that came to america in a majority came on their own free will to better themselves. to get that opportunity, they had to beat out a large majority in their home countries. so most asians in america are smarter because they had to get here pretty much based on how good they can do math.

all races are the same when you measure around the world. but as far as this country goes, asian folks today have higher IQ because the way they came to this country favored brains over brawn.

its not a racist thing at all.

[poly800rock]

Yeah, we poor whites need a foot in the door. See, it's because of our overall economic situation that we're at a distinct disadvantage. (10)

the NBA was already all white. get with it. hockey needs affirmative action....back to another chris rock quote...

[Servo2000]

You missed my sarcasm meter, apparently, poly.

[poly800rock]

You missed my sarcasm meter, apparently, poly.

sure i did (10)