MISTER FREEDOM

[kiya]

Just wonder.. Do any of you realize that this leather jacket isn't a fully original design?

This is just a slight twist on a classic 40's/50's motorcycle riding jacket, once the stars come off it's basically a horsehide riding jacket.

I'm getting one, without stars.

[Dead_Wizard]

I think there's a bit of cognitive dissonance between the seasons. Of course motorcycle inspired gear is going to be a bit more ostentatious than naval gear. It's a completely different culture, which is going to appeal to different tastes. Even with the stars you could make that jacket look good. Just don't wear it with rhinestone encrusted Ed Hardy's and a pair of square toes with an applique gothic cross and you'll be alright.

[akuma no uta]

Personally, I'm stoked people aren't jumping all over it, that gives me more time to save up for it hahaha

[rnrswitch]

The jacket is acceptable without the stars, but I could totally see Bret Michael's rolling to Neptunes with this on.

Even if this jacket is vintage inspired and based on an actual model, that does not make it excusable. Not everything vintage inspired is worth reproducing. Even if, say, Brando wore this jacket, that does not mean it needs to be reproduced or better yet, that 99.999999% of the population could pull it off. Most jackets that look like this are custom for the person who will be wearing it.

I do like the jacket without the stars, but it is still a bit loud for my taste with the two tone. It almost says, "Look at me. I am retro." I have a cordovan horsehide jacket (plain) and I still feel like everybody is looking at me. (But,I am also ridiculously stylish, cool, and ruggedly hansome. It could be that too.) I like more subtle displays of fashion. Hence, plain indigo unwashed denim and white-ts.

[Rivet Head]

The stars on the sleeve of this leather jacket are reminiscent of a Bates jacket...kind of odd styling with a D-pocket on a cafe style jacket. Interesting, but not my personal taste perhaps.

[rnrswitch]

I mean the design of the jacket, D-pocket, etc. is nice, but I think this jacket can be reproduced less loud and with better quality by Aero and probably cheaper. Also, the jacket will be fitted custom to your measurements through aero. You got long arms and short torso... Aero can deal with that shit. An off the rack MF jacket can't.

[jake431]

I mean the design of the jacket, D-pocket, etc. is nice, but I think this jacket can be reproduced less loud and with better quality by Aero and probably cheaper. Also, the jacket will be fitted custom to your measurements through aero. You got long arms and short torso... Aero can deal with that shit. An off the rack MF jacket can't.

Quoted for truth.

[jacob_davis]

these are the three pieces i will getting from the new season. if anybody has seen the "Rider's Dungarees" in person could you please tell me what the back pockets are like. no pics of them yet. it might be a deal breaker. thanks

[panthermodern]

Those sweatshirts are incredibly sweet in person... without the applique on the front. I think I may pick up more than one color.

[akuma no uta]

Will be buying all three sweatshirts plain, and maybe if there's a second run and I have the cash I'll cop the ones with the patch. They look ultra comfy

[tmadd]

the trouble with designing clothes in Hollywood is, all your friends are in Hollywood and say, "Gee Stars on a jacket look awesome!" And you'll sell them to people in Hollywood for huge sums of money. But nobody outside of Hollywood will want them. I see so many "rock-star-wannabes" walking around this town it looks comical. If they were walking around any place else people would actually stare and laugh or as Tally says... wait for the rocket to go across the river.

It's a fine line a hollywood designer must walk. Unfortunately I think this rockstar jacket fell well past.

If you want people to ask you when the show starts then this is the jacket to wear.

Calling Christophe a "hollywood designer" might be the most ridiculous mis-characterization I have ever heard despite his geographical proximity to Hollywood. It also completely ignores the historical basis upon which all of his garments are created, the actual existence of this aesthetic in vintage jackets, and probably most importantly, in reference to your claims about who will be buying them, the fact that the only significant customer base for any items from this line is Japanese vintage/repro folks, not rockstar types from LA.

Not liking this jacket is one thing, but arguing that it has any different motivation behind it than such rockstar friendly pieces as the denim p-coat, the 11oz denim CPO, or the experimental denim shawl collar shore coat, indicates either ignorance or an agenda.

[Rivet Head]

I have to agree with tmadd (despite not really being fond of the leather jacket) that Mister Freedom's designs are not likely to have been influenced by the Melrose rock-n-roll Hollywood deuchebag factor. He's a man with a lot of taste and great ideas. I think that no matter what he comes up with, there will be designs that some like and some don't.

[Happy Hooligan]

Calling Christophe a "hollywood designer" might be the most ridiculous mis-characterization I have ever heard despite his geographical proximity to Hollywood. It also completely ignores the historical basis upon which all of his garments are created, the actual existence of this aesthetic in vintage jackets, and probably most importantly, in reference to your claims about who will be buying them, the fact that the only significant customer base for any items from this line is Japanese vintage/repro folks, not rockstar types from LA.

Not liking this jacket is one thing, but arguing that it has any different motivation behind it than such rockstar friendly pieces as the denim p-coat, the 11oz denim CPO, or the experimental denim shawl collar shore coat, indicates either ignorance or an agenda.

I have neither ignorance nor an agenda. I was referring specifically to the leather jacket with the stars. Not to any other pieces he has.

From the Mister Freedom "About" page it says and I'll quote "Mister Freedom® is a retail space/design studio created by Christophe Loiron, French expatriate to California in 1990.

The concept operates at the current Hollywood, CA location since 2003."

so he's been in california since 1990... almost 20 years and in Hollywood since 2003 ...six of those years.

Yeah, I'd call him a Hollywood designer. What would you call him?

Maybe you've never traveled down the Melrose shops and seen the wares they sell... they look a lot like this jacket.

I'm referring ONLY to this jacket as it came up. NOT to his other lines.

so putting a d pocket on cafe jacket and rows of stars down the sleeves make it historical? Give me a break. I'm all for cool fashion but this jacket is not it. Some of the other products Mr. Freedom makes are nice, I'm not saying his line is bad... again.. I'm only talking about this one jacket.

And I'll give it two months after it comes out that we some wantabe Rock Star picture wearing it probably sipping a starbucks near Santa Monica.

[TallyHo]

Not liking this jacket is one thing, but arguing that it has any different motivation behind it than such rockstar friendly pieces as the denim p-coat, the 11oz denim CPO, or the experimental denim shawl collar shore coat, indicates either ignorance or an agenda.

i'm not even sure how to read this statement. if you lined up those 4 pieces (peacoat, cpo, shore coat, and "bronco champ"), you're telling me that this leather jacket wouldn't be the odd one out? there's obviously a different "motivation" and "inspiration" for this jacket.

and to tmadd, kiya, and all other defenders: i'm pretty sure every single person in this thread knows it's not an entirely original design. that's why i said i'm not brushed up on motorcycle history. i know about rider's jackets. do you have pictures of the direct inspiration for this piece?

and to echo sentiments already stated in this thread: it doesn't matter if brando wore this very jacket, stars and all - it's not working in 2009.

when i first heard the new lines would be inspired by motorcycle history, i was excited to see what that would mean. i expected stuff like the "mulholland master" jacket (which really delivered on the promise!) and vintage style "mechanic" gear... this jacket does not fit the line, nor the level of taste, i generally associate with mister freedom.

some styles are best left in the past.

[TallyHo]

if it helps to clarify why i'm a bit shocked and confused, i don't see any flashy leather jackets with or without stars in this inspiration teaser we've all seen:

but definitely some damn good style.

know what i'm sayin?

[rnrswitch]

To me, the purchase of this jacket is either ignorance of brands making quality motorcycle jackets, brand loyalty, or maybe you just like its loudness.

If you just like the loudness, then go ahead and buy it. But if you want a nice motorcycle jacket, then you will be paying way too much for this jacket and it can be had for quite a bit cheaper with higher quality. Maybe Kiya gets it for cheaper because he has "ins." And finally, some people are brand whores and will buy anything made by a company be it Supreme or MF. It doesn't make it better that one is a brand whore for MF, okay slightly better.

This jacket looks like it has been somewhat aged. Buying it is akin to buying predistressed denim. Not my thing but somepeople dig it. I like mine to look like I wore it, not a machine.

For the most part I like the MF stuff, some is a little too much for me, not to mention the price point, but this jacket just misses on all levels.

[akuma no uta]

the preview looks aged because its the one christophe has been wearing. yes its expensive, yes you can get an aero for less, yes its loud, youve made your point. its an experimental garment designed and made in la, all by christophe and his staff. not a factory. jesus people chill out, its fine ya'll dont like it, its not the end of the fucking world. and saying "higher quality" without handling both of the items at the same time? wow, thats an uneducated statement if ive ever heard one.

[zissou]

if anybody has seen the "Rider's Dungarees" in person could you please tell me what the back pockets are like. no pics of them yet. it might be a deal breaker. thanks

I think this is the most we've seen so far... not much.

[rnrswitch]

the preview looks aged because its the one christophe has been wearing. yes its expensive, yes you can get an aero for less, yes its loud, youve made your point. its an experimental garment designed and made in la, all by christophe and his staff. not a factory. jesus people chill out, its fine ya'll dont like it, its not the end of the fucking world. and saying "higher quality" without handling both of the items at the same time? wow, thats an uneducated statement if ive ever heard one.

So the new ones are not broken in? Are you sure? Does christophe's staff make the jacket or do they outsource it? Do they do a lot of leather work in general, where is the leather sourced from? If you can't answer these questions then I would highly recommend not buying the jacket.

Also, I don't think anybody was really getting mad over this discussion, but it appears somebody has hit a nerve.

[YoungPunch]

The Mr. Freedom jacket I'm sure is up to the same quality as Aero jackets. Pretty much the only companies that can hold a candle to Aero quality and materials are the Japanese Repro brands. Of course, Aero offers the better deal when you factor in price and you can do custom measurements.

Mr. Freedom's version is actually a nice twist on the classic motorcycle jacket. He could have put out a jacket that looks exactly like a Schott one star, Buco or Beck but theres no originality in that. But putting a D-pocket on a cafe racer and combining two distinct styles of moto jackets, thats unique. It makes the M.F. jacket instantly recognizable.

For me, the down side to the M.F. jacket is that it's really out there. Kinda "over-done". There may be too many details when you combine all the pockets, two-tone color, stars all over the sleeves and lettering plastered across the back. But that just comes down to personal taste.

My thoughts about those kind of details is they should be an end product of customizing one's own leather jacket. Back in the day a person wouldn't buy a brand new jacket already done up like that. They would buy a plain jacket then add the studs, club-patches, or whatever else.

Christophe should have no problem wearing a jacket with the words "Mr. Freedom" across the back. He is Mr. freedom after all. But any other person buying that jacket with the stars and lettering in the back is just wearing the branding. In that context, its really not any different than buying a jacket with "Ed Hardy" written all over it.

[rnrswitch]

Well said. I too think the addition of the D pocket to a normal cafe racer is a great idea and modernizes two distinct types of motorcycle jackets and morphs them together. It seems like the purchase of this jacket is more about buying "cool" rather than a garment to show off how cool you really are.

[kiya]

For the record, anybody comparing the quality of an Aero jacket to what Toyo is capable of producing should check themselves.

Also, as a side note, i never defended this jacket, i only stated my a few facts a few pages back.

[jake431]

Aero sources great horsehide, and cuts a mean jacket. Their jackets aren't going to be full of vintage details (they use re-branded YKK zippers, for instance), but the leather and craftsmanship is top notch, and custom to boot.

I know Toyo by way of Buzz Rickson makes some great jackets, I am sure the Mister Freedom jackets will be well made garments as well.

[Bill2]

So the new ones are not broken in? Are you sure? Does christophe's staff make the jacket or do they outsource it? Do they do a lot of leather work in general, where is the leather sourced from? If you can't answer these questions then I would highly recommend not buying the jacket.

Also, I don't think anybody was really getting mad over this discussion, but it appears somebody has hit a nerve.

If I can afford it, I'll be buying the jacket, with the stars. I will rock it confidently, make it look good, and probably piss off somebody on here....

I'm completely disappointed in this thread for the reaction the new line has gotten..... If you like it, great, if you don't, awesome.... Feel free to share your opinions... but these campaigns of conversion that some of you are running seem a little silly! I don't wanna convince anyone that I have good style, nor am I likely to be convinced by someone typing feverishly on superfuture. I am all for open discussion and critique, don't get me wrong. I am even for criticism of pricepoint if it seems out of touch with reality. What distresses me here is the tone of the discussion..... We're all friends here!

Christophe's line is deliberately fringe. Its not supposed to be for everyone, nor are you expected to love everything he ever does. It is that quirkiness that attracts most of us to his stuff to begin with...

To address the quote above: The jackets are made by Toyo, just like the rest of the line. They are made in the same factory and of the same horesehide that Buzz Rickson uses for its A-2's and other pilots jackets, so they are made in Japan, and of Japanese sourced leather. They do NOT come predistressed in anyway. As mentioned above, the jacket and jeans pictures that have been posted on here are of Christophe's own personal garments, and are in worn-in shape accordingly.

[La Brea]

I think the stars look cool. Most leather jackets all look the same to me especially flight jackets. I'm glad someone is doing something different. Just my opinion.

[rnrswitch]

For the record, anybody comparing the quality of an Aero jacket to what Toyo is capable of producing should check themselves.

Also, as a side note, i never defended this jacket, i only stated my a few facts a few pages back.

Since it was I that was comparing the two: I am not saying that toyo makes horrible jackets or that Aero makes a completely top quality jacket in comparison. The two are about the same, and yes I would give the "nod" to Aero. I have seen a few Buzz Rickson jackets in my time and to me it comes down to leather sourcing. Aero's leather is a bit thicker and the color a bit richer, atleast in the browns. I have only handled Buzz Rickson in brown horsehide. But Buzz's are ridiculously expensive and even if they are of higher quality than an Aero, which I don't believe, they are not that much better and I don't know how to give Toyo my measurements so that the jacket fits me right when I get it and if it doesn't then I wouldn't know how to send it back to Toyo so that they can redo it.

So consider myself checked.

[tmadd]

Agreed on the we are all friends sentiment, and I apologize for letting my frustration carry through to my choice of words. I didn't intend to start some war of bickering with a small group of guys, who outside of the last two pages discussion on this particular jacket, are some of the people with preferences most similar to mine...I know we all get on splendidly in the Shoes that look better with Age.... thread.

My frustration came from a multitude of claims, and attitudes that were based on lack of, or mis-information that has since been rectified and resolved by people who hadn't seen the garment. Though I don't like the rigidity of the notion that something isn't "acceptable" or "won't work in 2009" that is obviously a subjective matter of opinion and taste.

The only thing I reject whole-heartedly is the ridiculous claim that the "bronco champ" is some kind of LA thing that comes from a different metaphysical place and has different motives behind it than any other piece from the line. Yes, I realize it is aesthetically different from most of the rest of the line, but to insinuate that its creation, or its path to market was influenced by some stereotypical "LA wannabe rocker" is silly and carries no weight. It may end up that those are the type of folks that buy the jacket in the U.S. but that isn't why the jacket was brought into existence, and there is a HUGE difference between those two things.

[tmadd]

Now that I tried to tie-up those loose ends, I have something that Mr. Switch got me to thinking about with his brand-whore comments in regard to Mister Freedom. I am asking for opinions on the following because I am genuinely interested in hearing what people think about it, and I don't have a particularly well-formed opinion about it myself:

Where is the line that defines or indicates brand loyalty or whoredom when it comes to brands that are meticulously executing on a conceptual level? For me, the only clear example I can give of what meticulous execution on a conceptual level would be, is Mister Freedom, but I am sure that there are countless other examples people here are aware of. What I mean to ask is, is there a fundamental different by being loyal (perhaps unintentionally as a result of previously formed preferences and ways of valuing things) to a concept and loyal to a brand that embodies a concept.

I ask this because I am growing addicted to (my perception of) what the concept that is at work behind the Mister Freedom line is. (My perception of it is that) The concept is essentially that each garment is like a one in a million thrifting find of a piece of vintage, custom clothing, in deadstock condition that happens to be in a size that you can wear. This shares a lot in common with the concept of painstaking repros...period correct construction and techniques, attention to every last detail, but it takes it to a whole other level. Unlike repros, the garments from the Mister Freedom line aren't garments that ever existed, they are garments that could have conceivably existed. This includes the integration of deadstock materials, the milling of new fabrics to match the specs of deadstock materials that aren't available in the necessary quantities, and the combination, modification, and alteration of details for additional and specific functionality. In this way, I feel like it shares the sense of "being old" possessed by repros, with an aspect of newness that repros don't have, because their history has already been written for them, in real life.

I realize that the Mister Freedom line is in fact not custom, but factory/line produced just like repros, but I think it is an excellent approximation of what finding someone elses custom clothing would be like. This is where a pragmatist would question why you would ever surpass a less expensive item that could be fully customized to your preferences in favor of a pseudo-custom, multiple run item designed by someone else. I don't know that I have a particularly good answer to this but for me, there isn't anything interesting or compelling to me about a piece of clothing that was essentially designed by me (my weakness or limitation maybe). While I envy those who can be precisely certain of what they want, and order it as such, for me, at least at this stage in my life, I much prefer finding something I enjoy, and then making it my own. I think in that way, with the help of a willing imagination, the Mister Freedom line can begin to inhabit an impossible space between vintage and repro, and maybe also between bespoke, and off the rack.

I have a lot more going through my head about this, but I will save it. For now, though, I am curious whether this would be considered simple brand whoredom, or maybe brand whoredom via concept, or if there is a fundamental difference between being loyal to a brand, and demonstrating loyalty to a concept that is an essential part of a particular brand.

[Opie]

^ He's good.

And i can't rep

[akuma no uta]

Tmadd hit every nail on the head, fucks yes. Will +rep when I can, now let's discuss the badassness of the mulhulland masters jacket and the sweatshirts