Traditional Jeans...

[cheapmuthafukr]

they need to be natural indigo with a fist menstration blood overdye.

shit...

[airfrogusmc]

Gotta test, take a pair of 555 made late 1990s LVC 1920s 201s raw new with tags and put'm in a drawer and do the same with Edwins or what ever and take'm out in 20 years and see which are worth more. As far as authenitc to me its haveing the close to as right weight of denim, right hardware and right label types. Levis because of copy right are the only ones that can use the red big E pocket tab and arcuate pocket design.

[obsessis]

i don't care what's worth more, i have no intention of buying jeans and letting them sit in a drawer for 20 years. i buy them to wear them because i like them, not make money off of them.

having a big letter E isn't anything special. tons of jeans have red tags. the design is similar on many jeans so that isn't really a big deal either...legal or not.

[airfrogusmc]

And like I said before to each their own but for me I'll take my 20s 201s or my 37 501s. Trends have come and gone but the one thing that has survived it all are 501s. Like it or not its a fact. We'll see in 15 years who's still making denim. I'm pretty sure that Levis, Lee and Wrangler will still be around.

[Chicken]

Quote: If it weren't for the Japanese putting American culture under a magnifying glass and literally going over the top in terms of denim appreciation, then America would still be flooded with vintage denim and deadstock, and it would be questionable as to whether or not anyone in the world was still using vintage selvage looms. Where would we be without all those vintage repros to remind us of how great jeans are made?

Good point, Yet Fung.

In the Lightning magazine posted by digital denim http://www.superfuture.com/city/supertalk/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=12189, there's an article about three bigs of the Japanese denim world discussing past, present and future of denim. The three are Hidehiko Yamane of Evisu, Hitoshi Tsujimoto of The Real McCoy and Yoshiyuki Hayashi of Denime.

From the article, you can tell that all three of them got into the denim world because they were all affected and inspired by Levi's in their youth. And more specifically, the 501s.

There's no question that even now, they're manufacturing denim because of their affection for the original 501s. Yamane even admits in the article that jeans are least profitable. They average ten pairs of jeans produced per one pair sold.

When asked about their ambitions in the future, they answered they want to produce the true, authentic 501s. Tsujimoto will buy the Levi's company, Hayashi will produce the denim and Yamane will market it.

It is strange how there seems to be more passion and love for such an American icon abroad. What are we doing wrong? How good is heritage if people inheriting it don't really care anymore?

[digital_denim]

People seem to be just blindly following Brand loyalty, no matter what. Even if they are crap in 15 years, but as long as they have that levi's, wrangler, lee's patch on it, you're happy. Levi's could give a rat's ass about tradition and quality, they just care about profits. If you were a true fan of Levi's you would be pissed at them for letting their brand name go to the toilet and actually boycott until they got their act straight. But instead you're just going on history.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

Quote:

what about the first person to make a shoe? the first person to make a shirt? what about a coat? things naturally progress.

--- Original message by obsessis on Jun 9, 2006 07:50 AM

that about sums it up!

it isnt even possible to discuss this topic, when one side only uses the argument "Levi's is better because it's Levi's".

Levi's obviously doesn't give a crap about jeans anymore and they consistently put out the worst repros on the market.

Edited by horriblyjollyjinx on Jun 10, 2006 at 11:47 AM

Edited by horriblyjollyjinx on Jun 10, 2006 at 11:47 AM

[minya]

Hooray, a political economy discussion.

This thread is going places.

...

[horriblyjollyjinx]

haha, ok, I will edit my post ^^

http://repeattofade.blogspot.com/

[red]

damn you. stick it to the man!

[airfrogusmc]

Now come on you don't have to get panties all in a bunch because someone disagrees with ya. And all these other companies are making these repros for the pure joy of it and the $400 + price on some are just covering cost. Yeah Right. Like I said we'll see in 15 years whos still around.

[airfrogusmc]

And beyond blind brand loyalty wheres a better pair of 20s 201s than the late 1990s 555 LVC pair I have? Where a better pair of 37 501s? 1901s?

[rnrswitch]

Quote:

Quote:

HEY - I just remembered, Carhartt are still made in the US with union workers according to my inside label!

Quick Google search says they were established 1889, so at least one workwear brand has stayed true to its roots.

Is there a Carhartt vintage repro ????!!!!!

--- Original message by sneakeraddict on Jun 10, 2006 02:32 AM

are you sure about this? last time i checked, carhartts were made by non-white people.

Edited by red on Jun 10, 2006 at 02:46 AM

--- Original message by red on Jun 10, 2006 02:45 AM

What does that mean? There are a lot of people in the US that are non white. And most of the people in the garment industry is not white.

[rnrswitch]

Quote:

And beyond blind brand loyalty wheres a better pair of 20s 201s than the late 1990s 555 LVC pair I have? Where a better pair of 37 501s? 1901s?

--- Original message by airfrogusmc on Jun 10, 2006 12:55 PM

Whether or not they currently exist. I guarantee that a Japanese brand could make them better, plus those are repros made in the late 90's. Obviously, you won't be able to find that quality by levi's this year, even if they were making those repros.

Don't get me wrong. I love levis jeans too. I take a trip into the Levis store every time I am there, but there is definitely something wrong when you go into a levis store and the sales person doesn't know diddly squat (did I just say "diddly squat?") about jeans. I guarantee if you go into a Japanese denim store even the most knowledgable denim head will come out learning something.

BTW My Carhart jacket says, "Assembled in Mexico, of US materials" on the label.

Also, I could care less where my jeans are made as long as the worker is making a living wage. If Levis wants to produce high end replicas in Mexico, of the same quality, I wouldn't have a problem as long as they are paying a living wage. And I am not talking about living wage by American standards, but by Mexican standards.

[alitarbegshe]

Heritage is different to brand loyalty. Sugarcane et all are more mindful of why these jeans were made theway they were/are then levi is.

Democratic does not necessarily mean cheap. Making the best possible product is one thing, but i personally think once you take workwear past a certain price point, where the premium price does not add to the functionality of the product, it stops being workwear.

That's why i am trying to be careful with the language. In a thread like this, single words can change the whole uunderstanding of a statement.

[spiveyt2]

Quote:

Now come on you don't have to get panties all in a bunch because someone disagrees with ya. And all these other companies are making these repros for the pure joy of it and the $400 + price on some are just covering cost. Yeah Right. Like I said we'll see in 15 years whos still around.

--- Original message by airfrogusmc on Jun 10, 2006 12:44 PM

I have to agree with you that thinking that the Japanese repro companies are acting as some kind of bottom-line-ignoring, free-love hippie, do-it-just for-the-denim organizations seems rather foolish. I guarantee that they do care about the almighty dollar (yen) to some degree. Now that may not be quite as much as Levis but still. Besides, caring about profit is not a bad thing. Its when you don't care about quality. On the other hand, airfrog, I don't understand why Levis is still great just because they made great stuff in the past. Just because they will be around in another 15 years doesn't make it any better now or later. The Orioles aren't still a great team just because they had some great seasons in the '70s and early '80s. This is what have you done for me lately territory.

[Lars]

Quote:

And like I said before to each their own but for me I'll take my 20s 201s or my 37 501s. Trends have come and gone but the one thing that has survived it all are 501s. Like it or not its a fact. We'll see in 15 years who's still making denim. I'm pretty sure that Levis, Lee and Wrangler will still be around.

--- Original message by airfrogusmc on Jun 10, 2006 10:05 AM

The 501 didn't survive it all, that is why they changed the cut every 10 minutes.

[airfrogusmc]

Again I'll say show me a company that is making a more acurate pair of 1920s 201s, 1937 501s or 201s, 1901s and maybe then you have an argument. The blue/green line denim on my 20 201s is OUTSTANDING.

[rnrswitch]

I would also like for someone to point out a company that makes jeans like those too... including levis. Those 98 repros are phenomenal(?), but they still are not making them like that these days. Levi's makes great repros, but I wouldn't expect the quality to stay consistent from year to year considering all the factory changes and the fact that it seems like they put the least effort and marketing into their lvc line. It is sad that the very company that initially produced these jeans, continually gets details wrong on the repros.

I can almost admire people who don't ever think that the grass is greener on the other side.

[airfrogusmc]

You're right. My favorites are my 37 201s from 97 my 20s 201s for 99 and I have a killer paier of 37 501s from 03. I thought that Paul had said some of the newer LVCs had gotten better and the fall 06 line showed some promise. I have an order in for a pair of the raw 33s when they come out in Sept. But there are some of my others I'm not as crazy about. My 33s from a few years ago and last years 20s 201s were double needle on the arcuate.

Edited by airfrogusmc on Jun 11, 2006 at 08:28 PM

[lockstock389]

I somewhat agree. I work for Levi's and have a pair of Big E 1955 Hand-rolleds and they are just the best made jeans I've ever had. I love my nudies and am looking for some APCs (hint, hint) but there's just something about tradition.