Traditional Jeans...

[Jim Cissell]

I was curious if anyone else felt like me - where the only jeans really worth wearing were the authentic, originals lile Levi's, Lee and Wrangler? It just seems like the others are simply copies, and for some reason, that bugs me.

I know many of these knock-offs are actually extremely well made, excellent pieces in themselves and often more 'authentic' then the master brands in many ways, but they're still 'fakes'...

Any thoughts?

Jim

Jim Cissell

[cheapmuthafukr]

maybe not the only jeans worth wearing, but they definatly have thier appeal. i would rather have a pair of big e levis than a pair of sugarcanes, and if they were the same price id get the levis.

im also broke most of the time(having 2 kids will do that to you) so all but one pair of jeans that i wear are thrift store vintage jeans. i have 3 pairs in rotation now, a pair of 70s/80s redlines, a pair oaf 13wmzrm that im breaking in(super dark indigo, scovill zipper, dont know the age), and a pair of double rl that are amazing. the dopuble rl are 501 copies tho, so its the same thing.

my favorites are the redlines, just too classic, twisted and faded and all.

shit...

[damnIam]

Quote:

maybe not the only jeans worth wearing, but they definatly have thier appeal. i would rather have a pair of big e levis than a pair of sugarcanes, and if they were the same price id get the levis.

im also broke most of the time(having 2 kids will do that to you) so all but one pair of jeans that i wear are thrift store vintage jeans. i have 3 pairs in rotation now, a pair of 70s/80s redlines, a pair oaf 13wmzrm that im breaking in(super dark indigo, scovill zipper, dont know the age), and a pair of double rl that are amazing. the dopuble rl are 501 copies tho, so its the same thing.

my favorites are the redlines, just too classic, twisted and faded and all.

--- Original message by cheapmuthafukr on Jun 9, 2006 05:58 AM

I am in agreement. The double RRLs are really well made. I have Nashvilles, RRLs, sugarcane 47s and some LVCs (551 zxx) but I always seem to gravitate to my vintage Levis that my dad gave me.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

Authenticity is a quaint notion nowadays.

Using chain stitch, your train of jeans is fading wind.

[sneakeraddict]

i am in agreement with the first post.

something about those three brands is un-copy-able. they just do what they say on the tin.

personally i dont really like the fussy logos of the new brand jeans, and I've never liked the idea of 'designer' jeans anyway (Like Versace or something stupid like that)

If you can get hold of the repros of the company made repros of Levis, Wrangler and Lee then you are in luck, its just such a shame that these reproduction jeans are being fetishised now and are 4 times the price of their standard ranges.

That said, my regular 501 STF's finally arrived from the US today and I really like them.

I also want to include Edwin in the list because they have also been going nearly 60 years, just that they are on the other side of the world, so I suppose that makes them "authentic" too.

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[obsessis]

what about the first person to make a shoe? the first person to make a shirt? what about a coat? things naturally progress.

[sneakeraddict]

/\

that is why the original Italian and British shoe making family dynasties are still seen as the best.

I.e. Gucci, Church's, Hermes (French) .... the list is endless of course

A lot of these brands like True Religion, or whatever it is at the moment, will be here today, gone tomorrow.

Please click my website for some cool stuff for sale

Various brand new Edwins and new footwear UK 11 / US 12. Updated regularly.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/j-edwards/superfuture.htm

[cheapmuthafukr]

Quote:

what about the first person to make a shoe? the first person to make a shirt? what about a coat? things naturally progress.

--- Original message by obsessis on Jun 9, 2006 07:50 AM

is progression always good? is oe denim better than ringring selvage? are bartacks better than hidden rivets?

shit...

[denimdestroyedmylife]

yes, let us not confuse the passage of time with progress.

Using chain stitch, your train of jeans is fading wind.

[obsessis]

things naturally progress, meaning a company like sugarcane making jeans should not be viewed as fakes. i realize that not just because something is new it is good, but sugarcane shouldn't be penalized for not being the first company to make jeans.

[digital_denim]

Quote:

/\

that is why the original Italian and British shoe making family dynasties are still seen as the best.

I.e. Gucci, Church's, Hermes (French) .... the list is endless of course

A lot of these brands like True Religion, or whatever it is at the moment, will be here today, gone tomorrow.

--- Original message by sneakeraddict on Jun 9, 2006 07:59 AM

I hope you're not saying that True Religion does Levi's, Wrangler, Lee repros.

And maybe their seen as the best because of the image not because of the quality, and that's what you're paying for.

[Jim Cissell]

Yes, progression is always good, but authenticity can be more important.

Levi's, Lee and Wrangler have certainly paid their dues, and yes they were the first.

For a not-so-unrelated-example, much of fine art, in retrospect, is 'easy to do'; but that person who executed a particular piece was the first one to attempt that radical or innovative idea and bring it to life. Before that, it simply wasn't done or even thought of.

In the case of authentic denim, it is almost the same situation. Yes, competition keeps everyone honest and innovative, but it's still a copy when folks knock-off a proven design.

I do wish these 'big three' makers would establish a division that indeed reissues their tried-and-true, iconic patterns (as the LVC line has fitfully attempted) and have a reliable, quality-minded and readily available supply of these pieces out there so that these knock-offs would truly become irrelevant.

Again, I'm all for innovation, but why wear a copy when the 'real' thing is there - or could be made available?

Jim

Jim Cissell

[cheapmuthafukr]

i guess thats what the japaneese makers are trying to do, make it available. before lvc it was just them putting out authentic jeans. from what people say the japanese jeans are higher quality than lvc also. so lvc is the same as them, just a copy, not really authentic.

shit...

[denimdestroyedmylife]

nobody is making jeans in the 19th or 20th centuries anymore. nowadays, people are making jeans in the 21st.

Using chain stitch, your train of jeans is fading wind.

[Chicken]

I wouldn't call something authentic just because it has the right label on it. To me, authentic qualities are way more important than their names.

[digital_denim]

Yeah Levi's was the originators, but most of their jeans are NOT quality today. Just because it's Levi's doesn't mean it's good. Sure if you can deadstock stuff, that might be a different story.

Anyway I don't think everyone on this board is looking for that traditional Levi's antifit.

Edited by digital_denim on Jun 9, 2006 at 10:23 AM

[denimdestroyedmylife]

it is utterly mind-boggling to use the term AUTHENTIC on something mass-produced.

etymology: authentikos "original, genuine, principal," from authentes "one acting on one's own authority," from autos "self" + hentes "doer, being."-------shares the same root as the word "author"

if you want authored/authentic jeans, i point you to Ande Whall. i can think of no one else that fits the bill.

Using chain stitch, your train of jeans is fading wind.

[obsessis]

your logic is faulty. apply it to all aspects of your life and you'd be pretty bored.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

i'm superbored.

i don't apply logic to life---my only rule.

i am not in search of authenticity.

---animal chin

Using chain stitch, your train of jeans is fading wind.

[obsessis]

ddml - my comment wasn't in reference to you.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

nevermind, carry on!

Using chain stitch, your train of jeans is fading wind.

[digital_denim]

You authentic fans are driving Fords, right?

[cheapmuthafukr]

thats funny... i actually do.

shit...

[denimdestroyedmylife]

all cars are fake model-Ts.

Using chain stitch, your train of jeans is fading wind.

[Chicken]

and model-t is a fake horse-carriage.

[rnrswitch]

I will only buy IBM brand, cuz i am so damn authentic. None of that windows crap either... straight DOS. Represent. Actually I am going to start using punch card computers for real authenticity.

Brand loyalty is absurd. Quality loyalty sounds a little better. Levis, Lees, and Wrangler ain't cuttin it in the quality categories lately... well maybe wranglers. They still make a sturdy dungaree.

[Roland]

While I see the draw of authenticity, I don't look for it in jeans.

I would much rather have an artisanal products, then an authentic product. Since I love denim, I buy denim made with love.

[alitarbegshe]

Heritage is important to me.

Lee, Levis and Wrangler's heritage is intertwined, not only with american history, but also with street culture. From miners, cowboys, through rock goths, hip-hop and onwards.

Remember jeans have their heritage in workwear. As such jeans was designed purely on a utilitarian level, where superfluous details were removed and key points were re-enforced, hence the non-design design aesthetic. That is something that we will probably never see again.

That's why i would be so un-comfortable picking up a pair of , say 45rpms. Paying the same price as a couture piece is to me, missing the attraction of denim as much as pre-washed jeans. Denim should always be democratic.

It's just such a pity Levi replica's do better "levi's" then levis. I think Lee has always been the dark horse an i don't really know much about wrangler to comment.

I wish i had a better vocabulary. I know what i am trying to convey, but feel like i am not saying it well enough

Edited by alitarbegshe on Jun 9, 2006 at 12:39 PM

[denimdestroyedmylife]

dude---you said it perfectly

Using chain stitch, your train of jeans is fading wind.

[Jim Cissell]

alitarbegshe - you said it very well...

In this case - five-pocket jeans - heritage is indeed important.

I also agree that it's a bit sad that the LVC line is better than their mainstream. Everything is about cheap now, and it's gotten everyone chasing the bottom, as far as prices go. Maybe with all of this 'vintage' competition going on it will make the big three look hard at their offerings and consider bringing quality back to the masses.

I don't know, it's just jeans, but they are a huge part of our culture - Western culture actually - so why not do it right, at least with your core, heritage models.

BTW, the off-the-self Wranglers are still well made. I've noticed the commonly available Levi's 501s are kinda cheap looking now, and seem thin & flimsy as well. The Wranglers are still made from a robust denim and weather quite nicely in comparison. The only Levi's I'll buy now are the '47 501 model. It's just a shame they have to cost so much - certainly not a nod to your democracy statement!

Jim

Jim Cissell