Japanese '50s Cut Repros

[beautiful_FrEaK]

Encouraged by Edmond and out of interest I decided to make this thread.

An attempt to give a comprehensive list of available (or not available anymore) repros, designed after a Levi's '50s cut.

Also a place to compare these models concerning:

cut

denim

fit

measurements

details

"air"

a small, yet imperfect list

first of all the LVCs to which we refer to

LVC

1955

LVC Japan

1955

1953

1950 503B

Denime

XX type

1951

Evisu

2001

Fob Factory

F098

Fullcount

1105

0105C

Joe McCoy

905

Ooe Yofukuten

01 cut

Pherrows

521

421

Real McCoy

001

613

Samurai

S0510

Skul

5000XX

Studio d'Artisan

001/101

SugarCane

1955

(Okinawa)

(Hawaii)

The FlatHead

3005

1005

F350

Warehouse

(1001X)

(1000X )

Warren

Please feel free to add some more, share your pictures and experience.

[Maynard Friedman]

Eternal 874 (although the rise is a little lower than the typical 50s cut)

Warehouse Warren

Edwin Waynesville

Edwin ED69

Sugar Cane Hawaii

Studio D'artisan SD102 (looser cut than the 101)

[setterman]

Warehouse

1001X

1000X ?

Please feel free to add some more, share your pictures and experience.

What's your criteria for being 50s? The 1001XX (and the 1000XX?) is a 1946 to 1952 Levi's 501 style jean. So it's an early 50s jeans, but not the tapered style from 1953 onward that I condsider to be THE '50s cut.

Pretty sure the Sugar Cane Okinawa and Hawaii are based on the SC1947, and all three models would be from the same time period as the Warehouse models, 1946 to '52.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

That's why I started it. To discuss about it and set criteria. We just needed a starting point and now we can define it and I will change the list accordingly.

About the SugarCanes. I read somewhere in the SC thread that either the Okinawa or Hawaii is based on a Lee cut. Not sure if this is really true but you can find opinions about that in the SC thread

[setterman]

That's why I started it. To discuss about it and set criteria. We just needed a starting point and now we can define it and I will change the list accordingly.

To me the "50s" cut is the high waisted, full thigh, tapered below the knee cut that was from 1953 onward. What you'd get when you buy an LVC or Sugar Cane 1955 model.

[drz]

how about

real mccoy 613

real mccoy 001

joe mccoy 905

[stabliu]

according to SE the okis are based off of a 47 501xx so I strictly speaking they wouldn't qualify as 50s reprove

[kit99bar]

Do the LVC 54s qualify?

To me the "50s" cut is the high waisted, full thigh, tapered below the knee cut that was from 1953 onward. What you'd get when you buy an LVC or Sugar Cane 1955 model.

[Snake]

I think 50s cut is boxier, more anti-fit than 47 with fuller thigh and straight leg, not tapered. Minor differences from the 40s cut include off set center back belt loop, much shorter vertical stitching connecting the front and back, and at some point in the the mid to late 50s, no more genuine leather patch? The differences are subtle. Maybe Paul T can shed more light on this subject matter.

[setterman]

Do the LVC 54s qualify?

Everything I've read here says that LVC fucked up the cut on those and made them too tapered and overall carrot shaped.

[Paul T]

There is debate about the 47 vs 55 cut, but essentially I'd describe the classic 50s cut as having fuller thighs, straight from the knee down, a higher rise than the 47, with a boxier top section, more antifit shape around the bum - the seat is wider, it flares out more below the waist band. The SC version of the 47 is more generously cut, more like the 55; LVC's version is made slightly undersize, probably to reflect the fashion for bikers in the late 40s, who wore them very trim.

The differences are subtle, but obvious when you know them. Check my sig for the fit-pics. It's even more obvious when you look at period pics.

And why the racism, by the way? No mention of the LVC 55, just cos it's made in the US? I like my SDA103 for a 47-influenced cut and fabric, but the LVC 55 takes a lot of beating (check my last evo pic).

PS: the LVC 54 zipper jean was never intended to be an authentic repro, rather it's aimed at fans of skinny jeans. THere was also a very good Levi's Japan early 50s, 54 I think, repro with a leather patch, available circa 2001.

[setterman]

I think 50s cut is boxier, more anti-fit than 47 with fuller thigh and straight leg, not tapered. Minor differences from the 40s cut include off set center back belt loop, much shorter vertical stitching connecting the front and back, and at some point in the the mid to late 50s, no more genuine leather patch? The differences are subtle. Maybe Paul T can shed more light on this subject matter.

'50s 501s are more tapered below the knee than those from the 40s. From the knee up, I don't think they're massively different.

[Dr_Heech]

@ Beautiful Freak

You could include the earlier Lvc-jp 1950's model with off-set rear belt-loop. They were accurate-ish AFAIK, dating them to the latter end of the fifties.

.

[dr.house]

THere was also a very good Levi's Japan early 50s, 54 I think, repro with a leather patch, available circa 2001.

Pretty sure it was a 1953 model, I've seen a pair on ebay.com a few days ago. Interesting cut btw.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

I didn't want to exclude the LVCs at all. I just thought it is pretty easy to identify them because they are named after their time period.

That's not the fact for most of the Japanese Repros.

[Paul T]

Just checked my LVC Japan catalogue for 2001; there was a 1950 model with leather patch and the earlier shape rivets, and also a 1950 503B; the 1953 model must have been produced another year. I know the 503B was retained in the Japan line for some years, usually with Cone fabric, but maybe Kaihara later.

Beautiful freak, I knew you meant that, I was being cheeky.

[roy6]

'50s 501s are more tapered below the knee than those from the 40s. From the knee up, I don't think they're massively different.

From listening to knowledgeable people on the LVC thread discuss '40s and '50s cuts, I have gotten the impression that jeans from these two decades don't vary all that much in basic cut.

In repros, I see little difference in the LVC '44 and a '55, for instance, except a slight taper to the lower leg, as setterman says, and maybe a slight difference in rise and hip taper. Even the LVC '47s aren't much different basically, except being cut slimmer in the thighs & knees & hips, which I guess isn't a typical '40s cut anyway, but more of a styling trick.

Here's a nice old Replay '50s cut jean (Italian, on the left) and a LVC '47 (American), with identical waist and cuff measurements (post shrinking).

[Paul T]

I'd say those two pairs exhibit one of the classic differences between the 55 and 47 cut, namely that there is a kind of 'shoulder' under 55 waistband; almost like the top half of a carrot.

It's almost impossible to say definitively whether the original late 40s jeans were cut slimmer than the 50s, but the top block design definitely looks different; the 47 is more fitted, the 55 higher rise. I think the 'shoulder' is there because of the higher rise, I am guessing the shoulders correspond to the hips, and hence the waistband is slightly narrower, whereas for the 47 the waistband sits on the hips themselves.

This photo of a late 40s pair shows a straight line at its profile, pretty much from knee to waistband. No shoulder.

[jwsach]

pherrows 521 and 421 i believe

[setterman]

"Shoulder" perfect word to describe something I wanted to bring up. There's a very nice pair of raw late 40s 501s in the current Denim Buyer's Guide, and on the next page there's a moderately worn pair of 50s 501s. To my eye the shoulder on them looks pretty similiar though I'd probably give a slight edge to the 50s 501s. I did notice that the shoulder was gone though on the examples of late 60s 501s on the same page. I don't think the difference in shoulder size is because of a difference in rise between 40s, 50s, and 60s 501s, I assume it's because of changes in fashion and the loss of the shoulder gave a little bit slimmer, less dumpy fit (to go along with the more fitted fashions of the 60s).

My LVC 55s had a little bit of a shoulder when I got them (but not as much at my SC 47s) but the waist has now stretched in relation to the shoulder to the point that the shoulder is basically gone.

that vintage example tagged "C" is weird. The combs look like they're nearly at the ankles.

[roy6]

I wish we could see deadstock on some of these older jeans. So much of the shape of a vintage jean depends on who wore it and how.

The '40s jean PaulT posted above definitely looks trimmer in the hips than '50s era jeans. But some of that, on at least some late '40s jeans, coud be because the owner downsized the jean and stretched the waistband out significantly, resulting in a straighter silhouette.

For example, here's a new LVC '33 (right) and my work '33s, which I downsized and have stretched out significantly. They're both laid flat with the legs in the same position. My '33s now have pretty much straight hips, without any noticeable tapering out below the waistband, which they definitely had new. To me they now look pretty much like '47s in the topblock.

I've also noticed this happening on some of airfrog's jeans that he's worn for a while.

[Paul T]

The 'shoulder' is due to variations in a key dimension, what I've seen called "the seat" - the measure across the jeans, just below the front pocket. It's a classic signifier of 50s and 80s high-waisted jeans.

It does disappear somewhat if you undersize and stretch out the waistband. (The upper yoke section, with the fabric laid parallel to the waistband, stretches and shrinks more, horizontally, than the other fabric.). But it's still visible, whether you lay the jeans flat, or wear them. Together with rise and variation in the antifit - a lack of curve around the bum - it defines the shape of the top block.

ON these LVC the waistband of the 55 (right) was originally 1 inch smaller than the 47, left. But the seat and thighs are still wider.

Where's the Denim Buyer's guide, setterman?

edit Check out the shoulders on these puppies - Lady Levi's from the late 40s. Biker chicks often bought the men's version because it was cut slimmer around the seat, with a lower rise.

Always fun to see actual vintage LEVIS. Just took a couple of my favorite pics, more

Auction is here.

[dr.house]

^ Always a pleasure to see those beauties Paul...but I'll get you since I've finally got my 55's

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt that the originals were made of heavy denim (like most jap repros).

One of the most accurate repros is the Sugar Cane 47 (1st model) imo, at least cutwise.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

ok I updated the list and put the ones in quesstion in brackets.

in the end it should be a kind of guide where everybody interested in a '50s fit could browse through the list and pick the pair he wants.

and if the person has some more time he can read the rest of this thread to see all the explanations and opinions what a '50s cut should look/be like

[setterman]

Where's the Denim Buyer's guide, setterman?

It's a book put out by Lightning Magazine. I scanned a couple pages and will PM them to you. Would post them here, but I figure I'd be breaking some sort of copyright law!

[setterman]

edit Check out the shoulders on these puppies - Lady Levi's from the late 40s. Biker chicks often bought the men's version because it was cut slimmer around the seat, with a lower rise.

Auction is here.

28 waist and 41 hip? Girl's got an ass on her!

[beautiful_FrEaK]

It's a book put out by Lightning Magazine. I scanned a couple pages and will PM them to you. Would post them here, but I figure I'd be breaking some sort of copyright law!

quite a lot people already posted scans of it here. But you're right it could be a copyright issue

[Paul T]

28 waist and 41 hip? Girl's got an ass on her!

Was gonna say I saw a lot of asses like that in Kansas, product of too much driving to the shops in trucks with bench seats. But I don't think I saw any 28 waists.

[beautiful_FrEaK]

these have a rather high rise, right?

so you should achieve a fit lik these:

[Mifune]

Beautiful Freak

I commend you for initiating this useful thread and practical guide to finding jeans that fit in a certain way, a 50s style cut. History is fine and dandy but knowing which denim to look for is even better.

I tried on some Lee/Japan 101B jeans and there was one that had a very good cut: higher rise, yet slim, a very flattering line. I will see if I can dig it out as it should be on the list.