Holy Grail Denim

[andewhall]

Talking of the Sugar canes....was just looking on BiG when mr. RingXRing mentioned them and there is a new 40600 hand woven Okinawa that looks very nice. Light indigo weft is very interesting...and I like the hand sewn copper buttons.

[Crillz]

veyron = best car?!?! wut!?

minus nazi connotations, THIS is actually been determined by scientists to be the world's best car.

[habia]

http://www.amazon.com/Sugar-Cane-Jeans/dp/B000LLJOPK

I was doing some searches on the sc40400 after reading this thread. Had no idea amazon carried legit denim.

[rome1]

I think the "holy grail" situation is definatly different for each and every one of us as individuals and our own personal denim journey's. With each step taken, the process must be looked upon and enjoyed only by the individual who takes the steps. Thus the infamous grail achievement can only be appriciated by the one who deciedes what that achievment exactly means to oneself.

[Ahlvahroe]

i was thinking about this. if you found the 'perfect' pair do you think you could go the rest of your life with just that style. ok, lets say you get some 66 lvcs and you decide that everything is perfect, fit, denim, detailing, etc... would you go out and get like 10 more pairs to always have it available, or do you think you will never be satisfied and try to get something else, because maybe you could possibly find something better or get bored with what you like.

[rnrswitch]

In some sense asking what the 'ultimate' in anything is endorses the consumerist ethic (i.e. aspiring to have "the best"). Jeans are if anything anti-consumerist, in the sense that you can wear the same pair every single day and not buy any other item of clothing.

Try telling Edmond this...

[john11f]

everyone will be partial as to which pair is considered holy grail for them. Mine: Oni Shoai

[erbs]

If a holy grail does in fact exist, its status as such should be based upon authenticity and the beauty that comes from use--true wabi-sabi by Miz's definition.

There will always be a japanese repro with more bells and whistles than the last pair: pretty soon we'll hit 23oz. natural indigo warp and weft with golden fleece pocket linings etc. However, this pair will not equal the pinnacle of "jean-dom" like the Nevada mine jeans or that pair of Levi's with the matchstrike marks.

I guess my point is that the holy grail of jeans should be a pair that was worn unselfconsciously for the purpose that jeans were designed--workwear--and nevertheless look beautiful as a result of their functionality. In other words, the grail should be "authentic," a quality which we have lost in the post-modern world.

[puretokyo]

there simply cannot be a holy grail of jeans. full stop. why?

because in the thread asking what feature people prized above all others, the majority of people answered 'cut' (or 'fit').

well, jeans fit every person differently, unlike a car. so for every person, there may be a holy grail. but there is not a universal holy grail jean, it's that simple.

[ringring]

Talking of the Sugar canes....was just looking on BiG when mr. RingXRing mentioned them and there is a new 40600 hand woven Okinawa that looks very nice. Light indigo weft is very interesting...and I like the hand sewn copper buttons.

I like them too. But not as much as the Hawaiis

I didn't bring them up because they stray away from the classic 5 pocket blueprint somewhat. But you're right, they deserve a mention.

They are quite strange to wear, like the Yens, these handwovens are floppy. It's almost like wearing loose linen trousers. I like the hidden coin pocket under the front right patch pocket and the taped hems.

[synthi]

I think generally holy grail = some undefinable quality + scarcity either due to lack of availability and / or a high price. Both of these factors are subjective to each of us so I guess there is no perfect universal pair but it's nice (for me at least) to learn what floats everyone elses boats

And can I say it's great to see your contributions ringring

[Chicken]

hmm, maybe if you found one of the riveted pants made by jacob davis before he proposed to patent it with levi strauss, that would be a grail. that's pre-levi's, even though technically it might not be jeans.

[blake]

what is this about Kiya's denim wedding suit? I always said that if I was going to get married, that I was going to have a denim wedding suit created. does Kiya have one. pics please!!

[cheep]

diorXjacob davis

[Paul T]

Jacob did make some of his pants out of denim, so they would count as jeans.

As someone lucky enough to have fondled the original Levi's Nevada jeans, I can't deny they did have a kind of iconic power to them: the fact they were 125 years old, yet you could have walked out into Valencia Street wearing them and they'd still have looked hip (even if they flapped around yer ankles a bit, Americans in the Victorian era tended to be short-arses).

For all that, the beautiful thing about denim is their anti-consumer twist. Just about any pair of dry denim jeans becomes unique to you when you've worn them in. The magic isn't something you buy off the peg, it's something you imbue your jeans with, yourself.

[Chicken]

^ sounds like a fable. the whole time you were searching, the grail was with you the whole time...

but yeah, this one post explains a lot of why i love jeans. thank you paul.

[wEstSidE]

i wonder...will we evr c repros of stuff lyk dior?

i meen...i kno it not hav mass appeal lyk lebi r lee r rangler...but still if they stop there will b ppl who rly luvd jeen enuf 2 try n recreate

[Pandemonium]

what is this about Kiya's denim wedding suit? I always said that if I was going to get married, that I was going to have a denim wedding suit created. does Kiya have one. pics please!!

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showthread.php?t=37132

[somatoform]

ftw...

Seriously, though, given the variations in individual style and body type, there can be no universal holy grail. One "size" does not fit all, either metaphorically or literally.

I disagree with the fundamental concept of an ultimate anything. It implies a uniform aesthetic that does not exist.

It also implies that there is end to desire, unless "ultimate" is understood to be ephemeral.

Continuing along the Lacanian/Derridean tangent tangerine applied so well wouldn't the grail of jeans be not only what we want, or could never have, or have, BUT also what we HAD? A jean we had in the past that could never be retreived. Not only because it's not made anymore but also because the way we experienced it long ago may or may not match our memory of it, or the particular way we fantasize about it. Our recollections may be true, or may not so that the memory of the jean is built upon half fact half myth.

I don't pretend to know alot about jeans, certainly nothing near what others here know but I'm going to go out on a limb (the non-raw limb) and say that my grail jean (considering what I wrote above) is/was a Big Star jean given to me long ago, and long since thrown away. The MEMORY I have of that jean (the feal of the denim, it's softness and fade) may or may not be true (I can't remember and never will). So, I'm left to my memories and mythologies because I'll never be able to retreive that jean.

In fact, if I were able to retreive it so that it was in my hands now I'd probably deem it a peice of crap.

So the grail would be nothing more than a mythologized memory, though still deeply personal.

[Chicken]

speaking of memories, i'm sure this exact jacket would be a holy grail to many people:

[cheep]

diddys jacket?

[superdupersang]

i hear bentley are actually doing a collaboration with evisu.

so you can have the car, watch and jeans with the flying B

\

hope this answers your question, lazy journalist man.

now, go away

and hope you cite your references as well

[dim376]

In we focus mainly on the technical aspect of denim fabrics, I would say that Samurai,Evisu and lesser known brands like Kato should be recognised.. However, the situation changes once we look at the complete Jeans.. Other factors come into play and as Ringring pointed out, one tends to become a polygamist..

[shinchrono]

As far as modern jeans go, I'd say 45rpm, Dior x Eternal, Samurai

Look what you guys have done!!!!!!

[john11f]

For all that, the beautiful thing about denim is their anti-consumer twist. Just about any pair of dry denim jeans becomes unique to you when you've worn them in. The magic isn't something you buy off the peg, it's something you imbue your jeans with, yourself.

Amen to that. Paul T, you've described not only the meaning of "holy grail" pertaining to people's jeans subjective interpretation but also the essence of the word.

[Pandemonium]

isn't it ironic that people today pay huge money to imitate things that working-class people back in the day wore out of necessity? there's been a huge paradigm shift, to say the least.

as Paul T said, it's the magic one brings to the pair of jeans themselves. sometimes, there's a misunderstanding of the meaning of the holy grail. the nuance of the holy grail brings to mind a sense of a goal or a status of attainment - the perfect, the one. however, when we reflect on some highly coveted historic denim (eg. nevada mines levi's), these are in essence truly just ordinary jeans worn by a miner from way back - they probably did not mean as much as they do today. the holy grail is a psychological, metaphysical thing as opposed to something that is tangible (eg. slubbiness, no. of dips).

moreover, people have brought up the topic of wabisabi, most influencial in terms of denim from mizanation's discussion with his mother. in essence, wabisabi is the aesthetic which bases itself on the acceptance of transience - that beauty is imperfect, always changing and incomplete. therefore, wouldn't this mean that the 'perfect' pair of jeans or rather the holy grail does not exist? don't be so quick to judge - logically, it would not make sense that perfection is simply the acceptance that it isn't perfect - however, in an appreiciative sense, anything can be perfect. a perfect fit for oneself is different to another - applicatory and aesthetically. you won't see a miner of the past wearing slim jeans because they suited him. likewise, you won't see me wearing more than 2 sizes down because it may look good on someone else.

and to delve application - i don't believe that overalls are a perfect jean for me, as i'm not a laborous worker.

[Chris-Craft]

This thread is for denim that is a cut above the rest. (excuse the pun)

this thread is made to showcase especially beautifully faded pairs of jeans. this thread is to evolution of denim as best wdywt pics is to wdywt. only the best of the best need apply.

recent example and largely the motivation for starting this thread are these beauties from Florian.FloC:

not sorry for the number of pictures, enjoy

WAREHOUSE #700 HIGH RISE CINCH-BACK

10 months, just after the second (very very recent) wash:

*images completely unedited*

hope this thread takes off.

[aho]

Since the denim gallery hasn't been updated in forever I'll play along!

lamb's flatheads...

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showpost.php?p=1927081&postcount=3108

And also, ipkus Eternal's...

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showpost.php?p=1991230&postcount=2786

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showpost.php?p=1991243&postcount=2787

A little further back....lildavid's Warehouse contest jeans...One of my personal all time favorites...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31598302@N06/sets/72157608650314241/

Warehouse contest result thread should just be all quoted in here...Props to soonami, fookums, edwithoutahead, Also from the Samurai contest thread, cheep's pair...

fookums:

hello rope

More here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/c89/sets/72157605963949869/

And of course, the elusive joe 3b's pair from the WH contest...

There have been so many beautiful pairs over the past few years...It'll be fun to see what everyone can dig up!

[Alex3000]

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showpost.php?p=2124211&postcount=18233

[6ixes&7evens]

dont really like the term "Holy Grail" but tony_hige's 45rpm Sorahiko deserve to be put in here.