The cost of the raw denim lifestyle

[rnrswitch]

I wouldn't say I want to look like a construction worker, but one thing that is necessary to pull off the retro Americana look well is some element of carelessness/casualness, for lack of better words. That means not worrying about how to fix hip flare, knee bulge, washing machine creases, etc... and just owning it. What I mean is that I don't think Steve McQueen worried about his whiskers not being symmetrical.

For an idea of good casual, compare peterock to Lendo, or markmont to cheep, and I think you'll get what I mean.

I have seen pics of Steve McQueen pinching his jeans for creases. Let us not fool ourselves. (10)

[sidneylo]

WAYWT posts look like a Self-Edge mannequin photo followed by a stock list.

I do not want to look like a construction worker.

I do not want to look like a Self Edge mannequin.

[fre-co]

The point about peterock Vs lendo and markmont Vs cheep is so true. It's because those guys have new shit everyday to wear. They just don't have the time to even crease their latest ironheart flannel before the next one arrives.

No hate, they are welcome to buy and wear whatever they want, but worn in clothes look better

[cheapmuthafukr]

I do not want to look like a construction worker.

i do...

I do not want to look like a Self Edge mannequin.

you know, if i hadnt met you id think that kiya kept you locked in the back room until photoshoot time (realdoll concept)

[eczerwonka]

i do...

Hell yeah My old man, uncle and cousins have some sweet fades and flannels, muahaha Real construction workers... not sure anyone wants to wear their Rustlers or Walmart flannels though, lol. Bet there isn't over $200 spent in that pic, lol.

[kino]

i just like denimzzz? oh and leather related things....

[felinusz]

Japanese made Flannel shirts and jeans are of superior quality; many of us care about the difference in quality between a $20 flannel and a $150 flannel of the exact same general color and pattern. The $20 shirt is crummy, and many of us are not happy wearing it. $20 Flannels also tend to fade and fray quickly

Man, do you actually believe this?

Yes, and it is not very hard to believe.

I can verify this belief by physically comparing the two. I have done so. The difference in quality between my (~2005) Levis and a pair of Sugarcane Lee repro jeans is astonishing. The difference in quality between my Flathead Flannel, and my Dad's no-name Flannel of the same color/pattern is marked and substantial (if not 'astonishing').

As I said, even the untrained layman can tell the difference in quality. I certainly don't have any formal training in garment manufacture or similar. But I can tell; it is obvious.

$20 Flannels are cheap. Levis jeans are wearable, but not of the artisan quality we expect from certain Japanese brands.

$150 for a Japanese flannel of the exact same color/pattern gets you a much higher quality garment. $160 for a pair of Sugarcanes gets you a much nicer pair of jeans.

As I said, worth it from a "Bang/Buck" perspective? Certainly not.

Worth it from an aesthetics and satisfaction perspective? That is entirely subjective.

In my opinion, it is worth it for certain articles of clothing.

[Hendodo]

^^ definitely.

I think it would be a good experiment to get my dad a pair of Iron Hearts and see how he likes the look/quality compared to a pair of regular levis/ Costco jeans. it would be something if i could convert him...

[ThisSunday]

I wouldn't say I want to look like a construction worker, but one thing that is necessary to pull off the retro Americana look well is some element of carelessness/casualness, for lack of better words. That means not worrying about how to fix hip flare, knee bulge, washing machine creases, etc... and just owning it. What I mean is that I don't think Steve McQueen worried about his whiskers not being symmetrical.

For an idea of good casual, compare peterock to Lendo, or markmont to cheep, and I think you'll get what I mean.

Racial differences aside, those dudes all look the same to me. They all pull it off well.

[rnrswitch]

I don't think anybody was comparing $20 walmart flannels to Japanese repro flannels. I think the comparison was made to buying vintage Pendletons and Woolrich flannels for about $20 in almost brand new condition. The vintage Pendletons and Woolrich are of similar "quality." The flathead and ironheart stuff is simply over done if they are truly trying to make a repro, just like Samurai 21 oz stuff is over the top. It serves its purpose, but most people on this forum could do very well with a vintage Pendleton rather than the flathead... except for maybe Sonny Barger. He is the new poster boy for Self Edge and Iron Heart right?

[rnrswitch]

Racial differences aside, those dudes all look the same to me. They all pull it off well.

Really? If by pull it off you mean some of them look contrived, while the other looks natural, then I would agree.

[A Beard of Stars]

I don't remember who said it, but someone claimed that vintage stores aren't around anymore? That can't be true; I can think of three thrift stores, three military surplus stores, and a dedicated vintage store, plus about a dozen antique stores with small collections of clothing (Think 1920s opera steeze, fur hats and old tuxes yo) around here, and that's nothing compared to what I can find if I drive out to LA. Even when I'm in fucking Tulare, that same town of three hundred people you might remember from The Grapes of Wrath, I can cruise a town or two over and find antique stores carrying old Pendletons and 1880s officer uniforms with fur-trimmed hats. I think some of you guys need to look around a little harder, try looking around your friends to see who has hippie parents and ask them cause that's how I found all my favorite vintage shops.

[ThisSunday]

rnrswitch, how do you look contrived in a workshirt and jeans? They look comfortable in what they wear. I live in NYC and I've seen much worse.

[DrMoBueno]

when you're a lawyer

[ThisSunday]

^Lol I actually know a lawyer that lives on a farm and wear workwear when he's not in the office. If I posted his picture here you wouldn't know his profession or call his look contrived.

[rnrswitch]

rnrswitch, how do you look contrived in a workshirt and jeans?

When it isn't a workshirt and Jeans. Like maybe a workshirt, jeans, MFSC vest, and MFSC hat and all in brand new condition as if they were all bought over the weekend.

[DrMoBueno]

the usual suspects who have never posted an evo pic...

[eczerwonka]

When it isn't a workshirt and Jeans. Like maybe a workshirt, jeans, MFSC vest, and MFSC hat and all in brand new condition as if they were all bought over the weekend.

Well it's hard to wear squid gear without it looking contrived. Work wear can be worn pretty easily, but modern vintage swabbie gear? Very few can wear it without it being a costume.... especially if more than one piece is worn.

[kiya]

This thread went from highly interesting to immature and trivial very quickly.

Some of you are talking about this like there are written "rules" to wearing raw denim or workwear. At the end of the day, who fucking cares if somebody owns 200 workwear shirts that they never wear?

I own 450 pairs of jean, i've worn the same pair every day for almost one year, the year before i also only wore one pair of jeans. Does this make me a poseur buying all those jeans and never wearing them? Am i not allowed to buy clothing and never wear it?

[rnrswitch]

The environment might care about all the shit people consume without using.

But I really don't care about people buying shit they don't use, but what I don't like is people in a frenzy over shit that is about to be released and the general hypeness involved.

You might buy a lot of shit, but you don't sit back and just post pics of all the shit you own for the sake of rep points. I get the feeling that people are posting shit for rep points rather than just showing the details of the stuff they bought. Or just posting pics of the shit and then saying, "Look what came for me today." That doesn't really add much to the general intelligence of this board, it just becomes cluttered. If your gonna post pics post some details of the shit.

Like the thread you started about the Chainstitch embroidery. That brought something new to the board and you posted relevant pics of the embroidery without it just being about your collection of stuff.

Paul T posts tons of shit of his collection, but it is all worthwhile. He has worn tons of jeans and posts the results comparing and contrasting different LVC models. Some people just through some pics up in the "How many pairs of jeans do you own" thread with their 40 pairs of non-worn jeans. There is a difference between the two.

[ThisSunday]

I guess I just don't see it. If I saw peterock or markmont on the subway, I wouldn't think they were trying to portray something that they aren't. Does being a fan of a designer make you contrived? I don't think so. Isn't it more contrived that many here wear their jeans to death only to make it seem that they are loggers or something?

[ThisSunday]

[quote name=rnrswitch;2040113

You might buy a lot of shit' date=' but you don't sit back and just post pics of all the shit you own for the sake of rep points. I get the feeling that people are posting shit for rep points rather than just showing the details of the stuff they bought. Or just posting pics of the shit and then saying, "Look what came for me today." That doesn't really add much to the general intelligence of this board, it just becomes cluttered. If your gonna post pics post some details of the shit.

.[/quote]

I agree with this. There is a sense of bragging

[ThisSunday]

Since many of us believe that our jeans will last a lifetime or more, how many are actually planning to pass these down? Do you think your kids will appreciate the work you put into your jeans? A pair of Samurais are not a exactly a Panerai watch. Are our jeans heirloom worthy?

[tvshooter]

First of all, leave Lendo outta this. He's poor. He's so poor that when I went to his house and rang the doorbell, he yelled "ding dong" out the window.

Two, I frequent certain guitar websites that basically do the same thing. Oh, this guy has one or two guitars and is a "player". The other guy has one in every color of the newest anniversary model. Another guy has the "Holy Grail". Maybe two or three of them. So what? Are they a better player than me? Maybe? Maybe not (prolly tho, i suck) They're all passionate enough about their guitars just like we are about all this stuff. Kiya you're right, who cares. ps- i'm in the same boat as Lendo. but his style is better.

[felinusz]

I don't think anybody was comparing $20 walmart flannels to Japanese repro flannels. I think the comparison was made to buying vintage Pendletons and Woolrich flannels for about $20 in almost brand new condition. The vintage Pendletons and Woolrich are of similar "quality." The flathead and ironheart stuff is simply over done if they are truly trying to make a repro, just like Samurai 21 oz stuff is over the top. It serves its purpose, but most people on this forum could do very well with a vintage Pendleton rather than the flathead... except for maybe Sonny Barger. He is the new poster boy for Self Edge and Iron Heart right?

I really wish that I could find shirts like that in decent condition and in my size for $20

I would certainly start thinking twice about buying a Flathead shirt for $150! On that note, I think I will check eBay right now.

EDIT: Goldmine.

I guess I just don't see it. If I saw peterock or markmont on the subway, I wouldn't think they were trying to portray something that they aren't. Does being a fan of a designer make you contrived? I don't think so. Isn't it more contrived that many here wear their jeans to death only to make it seem that they are loggers or something?

I have to wonder if people here really wear their jeans to death so as to look like a logger or a miner or a construction worker, or whether they just do it because of how comfortable, beautiful, and personal a pair of very well worn jeans becomes over time.

From my limited experience in lurking the various evolution threads on this forum, I feel that for the majority it is the latter motivation.

[rnrswitch]

Since many of us believe that our jeans will last a lifetime or more, how many are actually planning to pass these down? Do you think your kids will appreciate the work you put into your jeans? A pair of Samurais are not a exactly a Panerai watch. Are our jeans heirloom worthy?

I plan on having my son wear my jeans. I have a pair of LVC that shrank too much and hopefully when my son is in high school he can wear them and appreciate them.

In general I hope to instill the idea of buying nice things and keeping them for a long time. I just bought a nice leather sofa and you bet that that leather sofa will be with me to my grave. My grandparents had the same stuff in their house when they died as when they bought the house. Just well made stuff which is made to last. I hope this mentality will follow through to my son.

[eczerwonka]

First of all, leave Lendo outta this.

Am I crazy? I thought people were saying how he can easily pull off jsut about anything and have it look natural? That dude, almostnice and zissou are the reason I joined here. I thought this place was for kids before I saw their posts.

I take waywt pics everyday now, but only post once in a while as most of what I have would be what some here have called "peasant steez". one reason I like this place is because it "seemed" less judgmental about how much what your wearing costs.

[jpsmith98]

Some of you are talking about this like there are written "rules" to wearing raw denim or workwear. At the end of the day, who fucking cares if somebody owns 200 workwear shirts that they never wear?

Nobody said anything about rules. Since this is a fashion forum I’m not gonna criticize people for compulsive consumerism—that comes with the territory, and some members have interests in other forum members buying 200 workshirts, no matter how it looks. I'm not going to come to a fashion forum and start talking about responsible, sustainable consumption.

But if we’re talking purely about style-what you’re wearing, not what’s in your closet-then I would definitely say that some people pull off the look and some don’t. And it just so happens that those who look ridiculous and propped up by their stiff as fuck, pitch black 22 oz. denim and horsehide gear tend to be the same people whose every other post is a “look what I just bought†post.

If you told me they found 450 pairs of crispy Lees in James Dean's flaming, mangled trunk-I'd still think he was a stylish motherfucker.

[ssheat]

I've been reading this thread and find it rather interesting at certain points. I don't understand why people have to categorize an interest, or why people are categorized simply based on how much they spend or what they spend it on. If somebody is able and wishes to buy something, let them go ahead - I don't see anything wrong with it. Some of you have been talking about workwear and how people are trying to go for a particular 'look'. Perhaps they are simply wearing what they like as opposed to trying to look americana or whatever else you want to call it. People like demonito, zissou, and markmont have been mentioned as looking contrived. Ever since I started lurking here in 07, demonito has consistently helped out on this forum, and seems truly very interested in learning about denim and denim as a concept. Also, it has been stated that wearing new clothes give a contriving effect. I'm sure that those who inspired the vintage workwear look would prefer to have new clothes to wear as opposed to worn out clothes.

To go back to the original point of discussion, I do not believe that the raw denim lifestyle is more expensive than the average fashion lifestyle. Raw denim is generally more sustainable, because many of those who do wear it stick to wearing a pair or just a few for a somewhat extended period of time. If you compare the average superdenim person to another poster on supertalk, the latter probably spends more on something they do not wear on a day to day basis. But, if you compare this to the average person, its rather difficult to create a mold for this person and how much they spend. But, the general mention of quality is irritating because you are paying more so for the craftsmanship and production of the product than the actual quality. Its become a tagline, and in many cases, people are paying tons for perceived quality. The price is so (I would think, I'm no insider) because of the export fee and such. That's why the price is marked up rather significantly on the products sold in the US rather than because of the idea that the product will last forever. Also, something that further contributes to this is the sheer interest and enjoyability factor that is not a tangible or quantitative quantity.

Edit: Your argument is not exactly relevant in certain instances. Besides the idea of consumerism, if somebody doesn't spend on the workshirt or whatever else, somebody else will. The names mentioned do not look ridiculous and are not snobbish in my opinion. 'Pulling' off something is completely subjective and in the eye of the beholder, so I'll leave that where it is. If you mean to say that this lies in attitude, I don't understand how one can judge this element based on two-dimensional photos posted on the web.

[DrMoBueno]

I just bought a nice leather sofa and you bet that that leather sofa will be with me to my grave.

anyone else remember fight club?

'no matter what, i have the sofa situation covered...', or something like that.

i guess i shouldn't be surprised fight club finds itself in this discussion.