Differences between Levi's LVC 1947 and Sugar Cane 1947

[civicex]

Hey guys, I tried searching for the differences between the LVC and SC 1947 repro's. I'm not asking "this or that denim", I'm just curious what the differences are in the two jeans.

I couldn't find any definitive answers on superfuture, styleforum, or google.

[BeardsMakeMen]

If you're referring to the new mainline 1947's and the LVC 1947's, there is a huge difference. The new 1947's are selvedge and share a similar cut, but that's about it. They aren't assembled in the US and they don't have the features of a true replica (i.e. riveted back pockets, Big E, etc.), and if they're anything like my perfect worn's, the selvedge stitching on the outseam is really wide, almost flashy. I'm not sure of all of this, but I'm going by comparing the standard stf's and the perfect worn selvedge 501's with the 1947 LVC that I own. I'll leave it to someone who is a little more weathered in the 47's to expand, but if I'm answering the question right, I think that's all you need. Go for the LVC's.

[civicex]

Hey Beards, I was actually wondering the differences between the Levi's LVC 1947's and the Japanese company Sugar Cane's reproduction based on the classic Levi's 1947 501.

However, I was also wondering the differences between those new mainline 1947's and the LVC 1947's too. Thanks for the help.

Questions still up.

EDIT: Beards, next time you go to work, can you find out if the cut is the same between the "mainline" 1947's and the LVC's? Also, is the denim the same weight?

[erk]

the sugar cane 1947s are widely considered to be a more accurate reproduction of a Levi's 1947 501. They are wider and more anti-fit (bum room) than the LVC 1947.

I've never tried the sugarcane version, but I have two pairs of the LVC 47s and they are a very authentic 47 jean when sized correctly. I think that the opinion that they are inaccurate is due to the trim sizing of the LVC 47.

in terms of denim the LVC is pretty cool. its dark, hairy, streaky and comfortable. its made by cone mills in greensboro NC.

I dont really know anything about the sugarcane denim.

I would say go for the LVC 1947 because :

Its cheaper

you get all the details that a 1947 would have

cone mills denim (a personal preference of mine)

[BeardsMakeMen]

ahh... I didn't catch the little "sc" acronym... but anyways, the new Levi's are only in the biggest flagship stores (14th Street and Time Square in NY and Union Square in San Fran). I'm pretty sure they're 9oz. denim. They looked nice when I saw them, but I wasn't interested.

[Paul T]

I think most of the difference is in the sizing. I have a few 47s, a good friend has the SC, but his are sized down and look an almost identical shape.

I can't say too much more about the difference because his were a washed finish so I didn't get to appreciate the subtleties of the denim.

Also, I haven't worn in the newest LVC 47, which are now made by a different factory and are sized larger.

I would say, at a pinch, my early 2006 LVC were nicer than the SC - but my later version that I'm wearing now is not as good, because different batches of the denim wear in differently. IN general, I would say if you can get he full-on Japanese SC for less money, go for it. If the LVC costs less where you are, go for those.

Personally, I think the 55 501, sized down, is a better jean. Look in the 501 visual guide thread for more info. Oh and the 47 is 12.5oz fabric, 14oz after wash, as they should be, I'm no sure to what jeans beard is referring, there are no 9oz 47 replicas that I know of.

[civicex]

Hey Paul T, how about the spring 2008 LVC 1947's? The top button has "4170" on it, and the tag says "0307" and 701S on the inside tag.

[schmallo15]

i would echo Paul T's comments about the sizing. i have a pair of size 30 47 canes and a size 32 LVC 1947. the are pretty much identical in size.

as for price, the SC's can be had from rakuten international for about USD $130. throw in another 25 for shipping and you're in at about $155. if you can get the LVC for cheaper then go for it. i believe some of the Levi's stores had them on sale recently.

[levisforever]

Go For The Lvc 47, Bec Sugarcane Is A Copycatter From Levis Even Though They Master The Art Of Making Denim They Still "stole" Those Ideas From Levis. Haha.

[rnrswitch]

^^^^ Everybody has "stole" those ideas from levis. So no more Lee's, Wrangler, etc. please. ONly levis from now on.

[cash]

Go For The Lvc 47, Bec Sugarcane Is A Copycatter From Levis Even Though They Master The Art Of Making Denim They Still "stole" Those Ideas From Levis. Haha.

Yes and no.

The bigger question is, "what do you want." If you are some history preservationist that is trying to sartorially capture a certain time and place, go with the LVC -- it is LEVIS, afterall (but I would size down a '55 in that case, per Paul T's suggestion, or go for a Lee jean). However, if you are a denimhead that is looking for rare denim to add to your collection, go for the Sugar Canes.

[rnrswitch]

I do have both versions of these jeans. The SC seems a lot more "rugged." I also bought about a size too small on the LVC 47s (2005). The denim on both are kinda similar in they they are neither extremely slubby nor do they have a ton of "character." The denim on the lvc is a 14oz (or 13.75oz I have heard), but the SC version seems to have a lot more weight and rigidness (14.5ish oz), even after a ton of washes. I do believe the fit is a little more antifit in the SC than in the LVC, but this could be a sizing thing as stated earlier. I can do some measurements when I get home and maybe snap a couple pics.

I haven't been able to wear the most recent lvc 47s that I have, but I did wear the SCs while working construction to get through college.

[stanier]

FWIW, and personally, I would go with Japanese LVC '47's. I have US made '47's from 2003 (554 top button), 2006 and 2007 and I have Japan LVC from early this year and have seen (though don't own) SC '47's and I think the Japan '47's are the best hands down.

They measure slightly bigger at all points bigger than my US '47's and the denim has a lovely hairy quality with great selvage that's much more prominent than on any of my US pairs other than the 2003's. The denim is much darker with an almost black feel to it too, with great weight and density. The details like deer leather patch, no R symbol on the red tag, and quality of V stitch etc are all superb. Owning both I know which I prefer, and the SC'47's whilst nice really nice miss the arcuates, red tag etc in my opinion.

[stanier]

Whoops, I forgot to mention the great rivet detail and "zincy" type button backs on the Japan LVC, wonderful retro...

[civicex]

thanks for all the help guys, i really appreciate it. rnrswitch, it would be great if you could get those pictures. words and opinions are great, but pictures add another dimension to it.

[rnrswitch]

I just measured my LVC and SC. They are such:

sc tagged 31

waist 15.5 across back

rise 10.5

rear rise 16

upper thigh 11.5

mid thigh 10

leg opening 9

LVC tagged 30

waist 15 across back

rise 11

rear rise 15.5

upper thigh 10.5

mid thigh 9

leg opening8

It appears that the dimensions are about the same if you buy the same size. I don't think an LVC 47 that measures a 31" waist would be as wide in the legs as the SC is, though.

I don't know which is more of a reproduction, I haven't seen originals, but I do think it is perceived to be in Levis best interest to make the cut of the LVC 47 slightly more modern than the originals to be slightly more democratic.

[Paul T]

Stanier, please post photos of the Levi's Japan and LVC 47s if you can, I'd love to see the two alongside each other.

Interesting that Levi's Japan introduced parallel production, once the original levi's factories closed down & we got all the problems with Taylor Togs etc.

Incidentally, in response to an earlier post, Levi's Japan had their own repros before LVC - and before Evis.

[stanier]

Hi Paul, I'll try and take some pics this weekend.

I work away from home during the week but Saturday or Sunday am should be able to sort something.

[stanier]

BTW, I ordered a pair of LVC Japan '33's last week and my wife tells me I have a parcel waiting for me!!

[Paul T]

Can't wait. Can I suggest you post them on the LVC thread, please?

[coleslawyum]

……………………………………………………………………………

[civicex]

right on coleslaw. which pair do you like the best, and why?

[Paul T]

They look lovely, I'd be happy with either pair.

I posted earlier that I didn't like the current LVC 1947 fabric. I was wrong. I simply didn't give my last pair a tough enough wash last time. Pics are on the LVC thread.

Might have said this before, but personally I think it's the Hawaii or Okinawa that are the really exciting SC; I really regret selling my last Edo Ais (they were too small). If your'e set on a 47 look the arcuates are part of the charm

[coleslawyum]

right on coleslaw. which pair do you like the best, and why?

I really like the LVC a bit better in terms of fit. The SC has a seriously high rise and large anti-fit bum. But its really true to its work wear roots. In terms of denim, both are pretty similar, but the color on the SC is a touch lighter and maybe closer to vintage Levi's color. Top LVC55, bottom SC47.

PT, I agree that SC makes other models that have a more special vibe to them, certainly more special than the 47's. Gotta post some pics in the Sugar Cane thread.

[stanier]

Sorry folks, been busy at work which has made me a week or so late, and don't post pics too often so we'll see how it goes.

LVC Japan '47's obviously NWT, US LVC '47 have been worn for about 6 weeks total, but no wash and no soak, just worn raw.

LVC Japan '47

LVC US '47

LVC Japan V stitch & "zincy" buttons

US LVC V stitch & "shiny buttons

LVC Japan Selvage

US LVC Selvage

LVC Japan red tag

US LVC red tag

LVC Japan leather patch

US LVC leather patch

[stanier]

Waist size comparison; hopfully you can see LVC Japan edges overlaid on US LVC

[erk]

on the SC is a touch lighter and maybe closer to vintage Levi's color.

I thought the originals were super dark...at least the ones I've seen pictures of and seen in movies were really dark, and I think the LVC color comes pretty close to that.

example : paul t's post archived in the jpeg xxx thread

http://www.superfuture.com/supertalk/showpost.php?p=271125&postcount=10

[coleslawyum]

Hmm... I think you're right. Granted, I probably never seen a raw vintage one, so I was thinking the color was lighter based on all these washed ones that I've seen.

[Paul T]

Thanks for all the shots, stanier and coleslawym.

I'ts almost impossible to judge the colour of old denim on a one-off basis... even raw denim. Some seems to subjectively get darker with a wash. I wouldn't know which denim is more accurate of the Levi's vs SC (or Cone vs, I guess, Mempo), but I reckon the LVC 55 are very close to the 50s and 60s originals I've owned. From what I've seen, like many Japanese jeans the SC crock more quickly than the LVC which for many people is a big plus.

[TallyHo]

Sorry to dig up this old thread (meant to contribute at the time, but kept forgetting to take measurements when i was home), but i think this warrants further discussion. i have both lvc47 and sc47 and the difference is NIGHT AND DAY. hear me out...

I think most of the difference is in the sizing. I have a few 47s, a good friend has the SC, but his are sized down and look an almost identical shape.

i have had 2006 LVC 47s tagged 36x34 for awhile now. i absolutely love them (regardless of accuracy to originals). i had an opportunity to grab some SC 47s tagged 34x34 for a great price, so i couldn't pass it up. my LVCs had stretched and were a bit loose in the waist. when purchasing, i was hoping to get a slightly slimmed down version with sugar cane denim (or at least similar fit with sc denim as i'd heard these were a "slightly" fuller cut). when they came, they had a nice, snug fit in the waist, and were very baggy everywhere else. i hot soaked them up to about the yoke, air dried them, then hopped in the tub and wore them until they dried to prevent too much shrinking in the waist. these are the measurements as of yesterday:

LVC47 36x34

waist: 18.5" (2.5 months wear=stretch from approx 17.5-18")

front: 12"

back: 16"

thigh: 12.75" at crotch 12.25" one inch below

knee: 9.25"

hem: 8.5-8.75"

inseam: 32.5"

SC47 34x34

waist: 18"

front: 12"

back: 17"

thigh: 13.25" at crotch 13" one inch below

knee: 10.25"

hem: 9.25"

inseam: 34"

these are my deductions/observations/thoughts:

> the relation between tagged waist and actual waist is about the same for both. if i had soaked the SCs without wearing they would have shrunk to about 34. LVCs would have shrunk as low as 35" but stretched back out. based on waist alone, both pairs should be worn true to size. canes shrink to tagged inseam, LVCs shrink from tagged inseam (i expect at least 1" more in next wash)

> my sugar canes are significantly tighter in the waist, but MUCH MUCH looser everywhere else. a full extra inch in back rise (btw, 17" back rise is pretty huge!), and 1-1.5 inches in each thigh give these MUCH more room in the seat and legs...all the way down through the extra two inches (!!!) in the knee and 1.5 inches at the hem. (note these numbers are double from above, as those are flat measurements)

>this raises the same issue i always wonder about in my clothes, since i wear larger sizes: how do these brands alter the patterns for size differences? perhaps levi's has original 1947 patterns for all sizes, while sugar cane tracked down a pair in size 30 and made those identical, but then had to guess how to alter the measurements as they deviated from that size? perhaps SC47s are "identical" (as Paul T claims) in middle sizes and OBVIOUSLY different in larger (34+) and smaller (29-) sizes?

> if these were two models by the same brand, one would be a "relaxed" or "regular" fit (canes) and one would be the "slim" fit (LVC). THEY ARE THAT DIFFERENT!

>i'm not a "reproduction" fetishist, so i don't mind that either pair may not be like originals, but i'm frustrated that when i already owned a loved a pair of LVC 47 501s i didn't receive a similar cut from sugar cane although both are supposedly based on the same jeans.

>all this being said, i still do like my sc47s. i've come to appreciate having a fuller cut in my wardrobe for certain occasions.

>i never thought sugar cane was even trying to replicate the original cone denim. sugar cane is known for making exceptional denim on their own, so i just presumed that these were based on the 47 cut with better (or at least different) denim.

>someone said the SCs have lighter denim... i don't have either pair in front of me at the moment, but in my mind, my canes are significantly darker than the LVCs. but i'll double check that when i get home.

whew! that was a long post... if anyone else has more information to share, i'd love to hear it. particularly about whether SC claims to replicate the denim exactly or just the cut, and if anyone else has both pairs and can post measurement comparisons too. (i know rnrswitch did, and that was interesting, those his canes were tagged larger than his LVCs).