Levi's takes on Japanese Denim Resellers and Manufacturers

[zelah]

I dont know how well the capital e stuff sells, but i know its not being bought by me. for 180+ i'm not gonna pick up any lightweight/stretch/non-selvage denim.

[JBee]

this has passed on to many other forums where people know A LOT LESS ABOUT DENIM than here, it's effin hillarious....go have a look, just dont post anything

[Seething Tortoise]

this has passed on to many other forums where people know A LOT LESS ABOUT DENIM than here, it's effin hillarious....go have a look, just dont post anything

You want me to use my psychic powers to find out which forums you're talking about?

[tangerine]

seeing as levis buys exclusively from cone now... they would never be able to do a premium line good enough to stand up there with the japanese brands they're trying to weed out. cone is not capable of producing the fabric that would have to be used.

According to the cultizm site, the current LVC Europe 67 505s are made with Kaihara denim. They definitely feel like quality to me. FWIW...

[Paul T]

According to the cultizm site, the current LVC Europe 67 505s are made with Kaihara denim. They definitely feel like quality to me. FWIW...

Levi's have never used only Cone. Cone just happen to be their biggest supplier. For LVC, anything that's sanforized, or natural indigo is likely to come from Japan. The 505 and 701 were Kaihara denim, the Nevada Kurabo. The washed LVC, now made in Europe, no longer uses Cone denim - I think it's Italian (Legler?), have posted this info before. Cone have traditionally always produced the mainstream 501 denim, but Levi's often talk of bringing in other suppliers for this too, and for all I know already have.

[m1lk]

bastards...

[synthi]

mikesduc that's an interesting idea but if Levi's bring out a premium line I promise to take a bath in my own piss. When a company goes big there's a fundamental shift in its focus which goes from the love of whatever they're doing to a love of the green. Because we frequent this forum so much we probably forget just how much of a niche thiese kinds of jeans are. I mean how often do you see a super car on the roads?

Just as Nike make their dough from Joe Blow, not the sneakerhead who buys all the limited editions after queuing on the street, so Levi's cash cow is the average man on the street. I'm sure the powers that be have toyed with the idea of closing the LVC sideline, at least that's what I attribute to the dwindling quality year after year and historical innacuracies in the repros.

The thing I love about Japanese denim is size (true W27 - 28 does not exist in Western labels afaik) plus the creativity such as slubby denim, combining sugar cane millet to cotton, LHT one leg and RHT the other leg, slowing the looms down for a coarser weave, permisson dying etc etc. I know many of us bitch about how they only stick to repros but there are a few boundaries being pushed.

[adsurgo]

I am 100% positive whn I met with cone they told me levis exclusively buys from them now. maybe he only meant US.

maybe capable wasn't the right word for me to use. anybody with a ton of money is capable of doing watever they please. cone won't do it though. they won't be making as much money as they do from selling their normal stuff. they'd have to change everything from the weaving procs to the cotton and dyes... things would get stuck, broken...

[mikesduc]

Synthi, I agree with you entirely in principle. I'm just trying to make sense of their actions. The only thing that makes sense to me is Levi's wanting to dominate what they see as a growing market. And this market does have exponential growth potential. Boes anybody here remember Jordache or G. Vanderbilt jeans? They created the premium women's denim market. Look at the size of that.

You've got a lot of gen X'ers with disposable income that don't want to look like every other fat ass dad on the street but don't want to spend Bespoke kind of money. but they do want high quality and a sense of exclusiveness AND something that will be functional in an everyday sense. I am the perfect example. I love the finer things but got sick of the expense and care required of fine tailored clothing. So I saw Nudie, liked the idea and then graduated to Japanese denim. And I've spent a decent chunk in the last year.

Look at the age of guys on this board. No offense but how much disposable income do they have? But if Levi's did it RIGHT and put their money into marketing they could reach people that can spend 250-300 on jeans and its not a big deal.So again I have no clue. I'm just trying to see the business reasoning here. And the more I think about it I don't think it is a simple case of protecting a trademark.

[synthi]

Again you make some interesting points but IMO you're barking up the wrong tree. Levi's lawyers dept. are simply jealously defending the company's interests / heritage. My take on the matter is that this whole thing is attributable to that rather than them suddenly recognising a lucrative niche occupied by an affluent group like some of us maybe.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that Levi's is at a point where it no longer could do it 'right' like you say and in the way consumers like us would appreciate. They have long abandoned the artisanal ways in favour of mass production. My 555 stamped 1996 LVC 201xx's which many would consider the product of LVC at its finest hour pale against a pair of Sammys. And the thing that hurts even more is that the Sammys cost less!!

[Tarmac]

this thread is recycling itself every 100 posts or so.

[deadpan]

this thread is recycling itself every 100 posts or so.

Can I get a recycled thread in a size 32W please?

[adsurgo]

ahah yeah. the majority of this thread just repeats everyone else.

[Ka_i_ro]

Looks like now all those jeans people bought before this fiasco will suddenly become "collector's items"! I think it's a silver lining for all the little specialty brands of Japan. Suddenly they all have loads of unique deadstock that they can sell for way more than they have been! A whole new black, nay, INDIGO market will emerge!

Gotta face it, those Japanese jeans were all underpriced anyways when a lot of the questionable stuff coming out of LA and Europe regularly passes the $300 mark. The guys who run Hinoya in Ueno will soon be lining their tatami with stacks of bills....

[poly800rock]

what are you talking about? it's like the difference between transformers and go bots, go bots aint worth shit now

[airfrogusmc]

Again you make some interesting points but IMO you're barking up the wrong tree. Levi's lawyers dept. are simply jealously defending the company's interests / heritage. My take on the matter is that this whole thing is attributable to that rather than them suddenly recognising a lucrative niche occupied by an affluent group like some of us maybe.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that Levi's is at a point where it no longer could do it 'right' like you say and in the way consumers like us would appreciate. They have long abandoned the artisanal ways in favour of mass production. My 555 stamped 1996 LVC 201xx's which many would consider the product of LVC at its finest hour pale against a pair of Sammys. And the thing that hurts even more is that the Sammys cost less!!

Synthi it depends on whet you're looking for. When I buy repro denim I look for it being as close to the origianls as I can get not something "better". Not heavier denim or slubber or modern cut but close to the origianls. Those 37 201s are pretty close to originals.

[Tarmac]

Im gonna refer to these jeans at 1-17 jeans now lol.

anyway I dont think 1-17 jeans will command much of a premium. Other than similar to some past season model which isn't made anymore.

For example, lets say Oni removes the leather pocket tab and the arcuate on their blue/red line. I can't see myself paying more than $10-15 more for the old vs. new. Also I'm sure that at least a few repro manufacturers will make even better designs. If that's the case I wouldn't desire an older one at all.

[synthi]

@ Airfrogusmc - I hear what you're saying and maybe it was remiss of me to say that because the Cone denim used on those 201's is just plain gorgeous. As is the single stitch arcuate. I so wish they could churn stuff like that out again.

@ Tarmac: Maybe you're right but who'd have thought a pair of jeans preserved in mud down a mine would go for thousands of dollars and to Levi's at that. In every collectors market I know of, discontinued, NOS, OOP = £$£!!

[blm14]

Just got this from gordon et al:

This is an email from 'Blue in Green . . . A men's lifestyle store'

Message:

Hello,

This is an announcement concerning all of our denim products.

All of our denim products imported from Japan or any other country will no

longer contain tabs sewn into pocket seams made of any type of material and of

any color including leather. They will also be void of any back pocket stitching

or leather patches which infringe on trademarks or copywrites registered with

the United States government. These three infringements include:

-Any piece of fabric or material sewn between two structural seams of a garment

-Back pocket stitching (arcuate) which could be mistaken for a Levi's arcuate or

similar enough to cause confusion

-Leather patch with an image of two horses (and apparently anything else)

pulling apart a pair of jeans.

All of the companies we currently sell in our store fully understand this matter

and will comply by removing tabs, pocket stitching, and leather patches which

infringe on or are too close in similarity to US registered trademarks and

copywrites. We are also complying by no longer selling items with these

infringements in place.

** All items are now being sold void of these three trademarks and copywrites

held by Levi's Strauss and Co. **

We've been in contact with each of the brands we deal with on removing back

pocket tabs for future products, either replacing back pocket arcuates with a

different design or eliminating the arcuates completely, and in the case of our

beloved pigboy champions Studio D'Artisan there will be a re-working of the

leather patch due to the current infringement of two pigs pulling apart a pair

of jeans.

Fortunately what will not change about these products is the most important

thing about them and the main reason we wear them and that's the DENIM!

When some denim companies speak of brand identity they rely on exterior

flaggings or markings or shapes. In the case of these companies which we support

they're identity is their denim. They pour blood, sweat, and tear into producing

some of the most unique and revered denim on the planet. When we speak of these

brands its usually about the texture, weight, and color of the denim. We're able

to identify them just by sight and feel. So while these brands will be void of

familiar markings they will still retain the most important aspect of their

product and that's the denim.

We'll be providing further information and developments as they occur.

Thank you for your support in this time of change and transition.

The online store portion of our website will be back up shortly.

Regards,

Gordon Heffner

Yuji Fukushima

Blue In Green

[watchman]

yeah i just got that too. I guess it's official. I hope now that the companies can just keep getting their product out as quick as they can.

[headtowall]

What a drag. I guess I'm going to wait to see what new stuff the Japanese brands come up with before getting a new pair. Wish I'd have stocked up before this.

[Chicken]

Fortunately what will not change about these products is the most important thing about them and the main reason we wear them and that's the DENIM! When some denim companies speak of brand identity they rely on exterior flaggings or markings or shapes. In the case of these companies which we support they're identity is their denim. They pour blood, sweat, and tear into producing some of the most unique and revered denim on the planet. When we speak of these brands its usually about the texture, weight, and color of the denim. We're able to identify them just by sight and feel. So while these brands will be void of familiar markings they will still retain the most important aspect of their product and that's the denim.

Amen!

10 chars.

[blank]

Amen!

10 chars.

Yeah, I mean, this has become an 800 post cumshot on back pocket stitching and pocket tabs.

[poly800rock]

gordon writes in poetry

[thinkfilm28]

So what's gonna happen to all that stock of japanese repro similar to Levis ala Sugarcane, Samurai, Studio Artisan and the like. I know the stores aren't gonna sell it legitimately. Are we talking Speakeasy stuff here? Ala Ebay? I would think some folks out there don't like the plain back pock. Also the idea of having something that is and will no longer produced.

[poly800rock]

sugarcane took their shit off already. look at the deepsleep pics.

[shekki]

my s0500xx came in the mail today. so i dont think customs will do anything....

[adsurgo]

I'm going to go to japan and buy a few grand in clothes.

[joey_formal]

a mass grave if you will

[Ahlvahroe]

do the leather patches also have to get cut off, or just altered?