Levi's takes on Japanese Denim Resellers and Manufacturers

[HEWSINATOR]

I have to admit that I have not read all pages, but my previous question still stands. Why change the Japanese (sold in Japan for Japan) product now? It is not like they have been flying under Levis radar for this long. I find it hard to believe Levis has a legal footing in Japan that they have not used till now. Does anybody understand what I am getting at?

I said that you would likely still be able to get the jeans, only shipped from jp, Kiya, you said no.

[synthi]

^ Yup. I guess the idea with changing them now is incase those domestic products began to get exported to territoties where Levi's have unquestionably registered their trademarks, particularly the US.

Your point is illustrated by Toyo changing their popular export model '47 to remove the backpocket stitching (and tab? can't remember) but leaving well alone the flagship natural indigo models SC40200N, SC40300N, SC40400N & SC40500N which continued to feature the tab and arcuate. That said, we should all respect Kiya's info (thanks for keeping us all updated).

[HEWSINATOR]

Ohh, I certainky respect and appreciate his info, just trying to wrap my head around something beyond what most of us can understand.

I just think it is beyond the legal duty (I THINK) of a manufacturer to stop producing something perfectly legal for domestic use, designed to be sold domestically because 2000db might sent 100 pairs to me or you.

[the black arm]

I have to admit that I have not read all pages, but my previous question still stands. Why change the Japanese (sold in Japan for Japan) product now? It is not like they have been flying under Levis radar for this long. I find it hard to believe Levis has a legal footing in Japan that they have not used till now. Does anybody understand what I am getting at?

I said that you would likely still be able to get the jeans, only shipped from jp, Kiya, you said no.

Maybe because they don't want to pay legal fees to defend themselves in japan. My guess is Levi's Japan hasn't been going after the smaller co's as vigorously as they seem to be doing now, at a global level. As I understand this is a worldwide suit, meaning if the companies don't comply levi's will be coming after them in their own country. Keep in mind that you still have to pay lawyers to defend yourself in your own country, even if you are in the right. Could be the companies in Japan don't want to waste their cash on this matter and so are complying for goods in japan. Just a thought.

[goldengloves]

I am wondering if the Levi's marketing department is shitting thier pants after hearing this news.

My whole take on this thing is this; Levis is a huge denim/apparel maker with which most sales are made to middle America 'type' demographic. There aren't millions of people buying 1947 model levis as there are buying standard, washed 501's. So this makes me think, "why? Why the lawsuit now?" Sure they might be in the right but what does it matter, especially when dealing with smaller companies such as Samurai, PBJ, etc. These companies are in no way, shape,or form keeping Levis from being thier multi billion dollar company. So all this is going to do is deter those 'super' customers (like ourselves) the next time we see a pair of 1947 levis, or 55, or whatever, we will opt to purcahse something else. This will in turn probably not prove to be a glitch for Levi's which is why I am baffled at thier decision. To me, it just seems like bad PR.

I for one, will now never buy a pair of Levis because they have proved to be just like any other huge conglomerate. When will people just be happy with what they have?

I can see it now....

"Man, we are losing thousands to the superfuture crowd to other jean companies that look just like ours!"

"What shall we do?"

"I know, let's sue all those companies and spend hundreds of thousands in the process to show them who's boss!"

"Yea, that'll teach 'em! And that way, we'll get thier customer base because we will be the original."

Poor, poor Levis....

[Geowu]

there are seven entities being sued

who are those being sued?

[GoodHustle]

who are those being sued?

read the first post, it's all there.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

I am wondering if the Levi's marketing department is shitting thier pants after hearing this news.

My whole take on this thing is this; Levis is a huge denim/apparel maker with which most sales are made to middle America 'type' demographic. There aren't millions of people buying 1947 model levis as there are buying standard, washed 501's. So this makes me think, "why? Why the lawsuit now?" Sure they might be in the right but what does it matter, especially when dealing with smaller companies such as Samurai, PBJ, etc. These companies are in no way, shape,or form keeping Levis from being thier multi billion dollar company. So all this is going to do is deter those 'super' customers (like ourselves) the next time we see a pair of 1947 levis, or 55, or whatever, we will opt to purcahse something else. This will in turn probably not prove to be a glitch for Levi's which is why I am baffled at thier decision. To me, it just seems like bad PR.

I for one, will now never buy a pair of Levis because they have proved to be just like any other huge conglomerate. When will people just be happy with what they have?

I can see it now....

"Man, we are losing thousands to the superfuture crowd to other jean companies that look just like ours!"

"What shall we do?"

"I know, let's sue all those companies and spend hundreds of thousands in the process to show them who's boss!"

"Yea, that'll teach 'em! And that way, we'll get thier customer base because we will be the original."

Poor, poor Levis....

I think it's as easy as this;

as someone said, the lawsuit is probably to protect their trademarks. If they let someone use it now they might not be able to stop someone else from using it later on when it really becomes a big issue. It isn't about money at all right now.

Levi's trademark IS huge so I definitely understand why they protect it and I don't see why someone would start hating them for it. I'm just a little sad that some brands will change their detailing.

I don't think this is bad PR, no one knows about it and no one would care if they knew. It won't stop me from buying Levi's products, but the fact that their products(the denim, to be exact) are so inferior to Japanese brands will.

I find it surprising that some brands will change their products for the Japanese market also; my guess is that maybe it's just pre-emptive or that Levi's said they would sue if they didn't change the details of their entire range of products.

Levi's doesn't have the same trademarks in Japan.

[goldengloves]

I guess it just seems all too coincidental to me. Levi's isn't doing as well as it once did in terms of earnings and market share and now they all of the sudden decide to go after trademarks. How long has Samurai been around?Levis? It just seems off to me.

And it is about money, that's why trademarks are made, to protect thier creative rights in which they use to make money.

[Geowu]

read the first post, it's all there.

I mean, is there really no complication to others apart from those seven entities? Can other brands pass through customs?

[horriblyjollyjinx]

I guess it just seems all too coincidental to me. Levi's isn't doing as well as it once did in terms of earnings and market share and now they all of the sudden decide to go after trademarks. How long has Samurai been around?Levis? It just seems off to me.

And it is about money, that's why trademarks are made, to protect thier creative rights in which they use to make money.

Sure, it's about money, it's always about money with companies(and I don't mean this in a bad way).

However, it is only about money indirectly, trademarks means brand name recognition which makes money for Levi's.

trademark->money. Hope you can distinguish between the direct and indirect cause, my explanaition is pretty poor, and I guess this is just nit-picking. In all essence, it is about money, yes. What's wrong with that? Everyone is about money, always.

[the black arm]

on a random note, I'm not one for boycotting or protesting Levi's, but I was thinking it would be funny to organize a flash mob at the levi's san francisco flagship store in union square . . . have a group of superfuturians show up randomly at the store all wearing infringing japanese denim and the yellow sugar cane bandana's (that self edge gave away) on their heads and just silently browse around the bottom floor that has LVC, for 10 minutes and the just dissapear . . . although I wouldn't want to cause any extra heat to come down on kiya.

any takers?

[GoodHustle]

I mean, is there really no complication to others apart from those seven entities? Can other brands pass through customs?

For now, there's no complication to others, but Kiya has mentioned before that there might be more lawsuits to come, so some of the other denim brands we love might have to comply. Also, Chicken has talked to shinchi (from Skull), and was told that Skull is in the clear.

I think the best thing that we could do is just wait and see what actually happens, there's no point in speculating who's going to comply and who isn't..

[swisloc]

trademark->money. Hope you can distinguish between the direct and indirect cause, my explanaition is pretty poor, and I guess this is just nit-picking. In all essence, it is about money, yes. What's wrong with that? Everyone is about money, always.

absolutely. if anyone thinks this issue is about a vindictive corporation trying to squash the little boutique brand is greatly OVERESTIMATING the market share these companies/denim enthusiasts represent while greatly UNDERESTIMATing the worldwide value of the Levis trademark (as an entity).

this is clearly not about sales at the register. it is about much larger marketing standards and corporate responsibility.

[fallen angels]

on a random note, I'm not one for boycotting or protesting Levi's, but I was thinking it would be funny to organize a flash mob at the levi's san francisco flagship store in union square . . . have a group of superfuturians show up randomly at the store all wearing infringing japanese denim and the yellow sugar cane bandana's (that self edge gave away) on their heads and just silently browse around the bottom floor that has LVC, for 10 minutes and the just dissapear

or we can flash mob Levi store customers when they come out of the store like these japanese people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj0Ma2CsHME

[pmr]

Some people are ridiculous. Most packages marked "jeans" won't be opened by customs, and even if they are, the odds that a customs agent who knows what trademark-infringing jeans will be the one opening your package are incredibly low.

Mark the package "clothing". Don't put a huge value on it. It will be fine.

[homi29]

to tell the truth, considering how many different options of all price ranges there are for denim, i dont see a whole lot of levis being worn lately. i see more mall chain-store brand (express, am. eagle, hollister) than anything else really, at least on young people. On the older male set i see more rustler and wrangler.

And when I do see levis, nowadays its mostly the Levis Strauss Signature Collection, aka the cheap-ass shitty levis (without an arcuate even, if i remember right!) that are sold at k-mart and wal-mart. So instead of taking pride in their heritage and making quality products, they make the worst possible product (well, levis probably doesnt make them, just sells the name) for the lowest common denominator consumer. So now they go after japanese companies who are paying homage to the heritage of levis, all the while desecrating and disregarding their own heritage with their product line.

everything i wanted to say, but i couldnt have worded it so succiently

[Darkadious]

http://caliroots.com/data/product/images/77142007044153955308163_L.jpg

[Tarmac]

Everyone is completely free to feel that Levis makes much crappier, lame, (insert negative here) products, and to feel that SDA makes superior, desirable, cool stuff. But that's a complete non issue. The issue is their trademark.

What if some US manufacturer made a label like "EDWINE" or "EVISO", except they are crappy. It doesn't matter, Edwin and Evisu would be within their full right to make them stop. The quality or desirability of the names makes no difference in this type of case. The issue is the trademark.

Now, you could argue that the timing is conspicuous, and maybe Levis planned it at the end of some sort of production cycle to stick it to them extra hard. I dunno. That's on some JFK conspiracy shit. But thats conjecture...

[shinchrono]

http://caliroots.com/data/product/images/77142007044153955308163_L.jpg

darkadious, i was thinking the same thing about the caliroots denim after i saw the picture, seeing as how there is a little black tab and a possibly infringing design on the back, but due to the fact that they are not directly being sued, and the fact that they are a pretty small company, i'm guessing that they won't stop making/shipping the jeans? unless Levi's' actions have scared them enough that they'll change the design for their next pair..

[homi29]

What I dont understand is how can you possibly trademark something as vague as "leather patch with 2 objects pulling on a pair of jeans", then how about pulling apart a horse or 2 objects stamping on a pair of jeans?

I thought the various patches by repros were ingenius and creative!

how about two japanese people pulling apart an american lawyer?

[Guest jeffvyain]

i would buy those

[Egpt]

it would be really cool if kiya had made up this whole story just so that he could sell his jeans in stock faster ahaha.

[Blackplatano]

This reminds me of coca-cola. They used to destroy all the small companies that might provide competition to secure the market. They forgot to sue/buy out a tiny company, and it turned out to be pepsi.

[toufu]

This reminds me of coca-cola. They used to destroy all the small companies that might provide competition to secure the market. They forgot to sue/buy out a tiny company, and it turned out to be pepsi.

LOL if that's true, then that is fukkin hilarious:D

[GeriZZald]

dang this sucks, but it doesn't affect me like all the people that this is a big deal too.

[Dick Danger]

LOL if that's true, then that is fukkin hilarious:D

Coke passed up many chances to buy Pepsi in the past.

[Neilfuji]

nice to see how far of the point we all got!!!!!!

[Guest jeffvyain]

levi's still sucks

[cabl3]

the thing is, not too many people really care for japanese denim....well at least not people that dont konw anything about quality denim.....they like levis cuz they make a variety of fits, washes and fades....they dont really care about making their own personalized jean or about how the weight of the denim will affect its wear over time, or how many times they will wash them in a year (i wash all of my jeans maybe 2 or 3 times a year...max).....they think quality denim is restricted to name brands like deisel, D&G, or Dior.....(all of which make decent jeans i might add)

i mean i wont lie, up until a few weeks ago, i had no idea that japanese denim was so greatly revered.....ill admit i have like 2 pairs of levis that i regularly wear, and ill also admidt that i really like them....because of how they look on me(after a series of experimental modifications).......

but i agree.....levis has really slacked off down the line and really has opted for lower production costs and higher returns to scale at the cost of quality.....which basically sucks.....at least theyre not shutting these jap denim companies or trying to buy them out................on the other hand, it is pretty stupid i mean, come on! these dudes (jap denim) are like basically honoring and constantly bringing back to life the style of the old levis jeans wich had actual quality...and then for levis to slap them in the face like that?

i contradict myself dont i......this rant ends here......wow...