Levi's takes on Japanese Denim Resellers and Manufacturers

[PG2G]

I really hope thats a joke post

[thelion1856]

yeah i'm pissed so what.

[airfrogusmc]

im suprised that you, of all people, are completely missing the point of why these companies used these indicators in the first place. we know you love LVC but unfortuantely the japanese have been beating levis at their own game quality-wise for a while now. i checked out the current crop of lvc at the levi's flagship last weekend and was not overly impressed, especially for the price they were asking. we should actually not be suprised that levis is so miffed.

Most of you guys are looking for jeans with slubby denim very trim fit low rise and original 501s were not like that. LVCs current 55 501s are very close in denim weight, texture and cut to originals. The 47s are different issue. They are cut very trim compared to origianls.

[the black arm]

no doubt levi's is in the right on this case, the japanese repros are blatent trademark infringements. however levi's is killing a lot of goodwill with denim enthusiasts by coming down so hard on these niche producers without it appears any critical dialouge, the net effect of this is negative for levi's.

I will guarantee you the cash levi's has spent on the legion of lawyers researching, drawing up, and executing these notices to the manufacturers is greater than any money they lost on sales of product to the japanese repro companies.

this will be a great thing for the repro producers, they will get tons of free publicity, they will get greater customer goodwill (sympathy for the little guy, david vs. goliath) and it will force them to be a little more creative on the accents, which will differentiate them even more.

like the slothful, bloated, ineffiecent company levi's has grown into, living off the achievements and success of the past, it's making one bad move after another. for a company with a billion dollar brand, levi's is a financial cluster-fuck.

[PG2G]

yeah i'm pissed so what.

Haha, I feel you man. I guess I'm just not that angry cuz the 2 pairs of Japanese denim I own (PBJ and 45rpm) don't have arcuates.

Well, all we can do is hope for the best.

[snugglepony]

someone get larry lessig on the phone.

no one looks at a pair of samurais or sugar canes or d'artisans or whateverthefucks and mistakes them for levis (thai and other fakes are a different story altogether).

these jeans are an homage to niche, iconic denim workwear; they're remixing a played-out trope, adding their own detailing and subtle variations, combining fabrics and cuts and picking up the mantle that levi's dropped (sadly) all too long ago.

no one is trying to pass of their product as levi's.

these are loving reinterpretations of products of a bygone era, and they frankly have absolutely ZERO to do with trademark infringement.

would that levi's were expending the same amount of time and energy celebrating and developing an appreciation for the history of the products that put them where they are today...

[PG2G]

You guys really give the average person too much credit if you think they can discern the subtle differences in arcuates that the brands use...

They look like Levi's to anyone that doesn't read superdenim.

[Dick Danger]

I was walking down Valencia street today and took a pic of the green fence that surrounds an old Levis building. That pissed me off. This, not so much.

[Dick Danger]

You guys really give the average person too much credit if you think they can discern the subtle differences in arcuates that the brands use...

They look like Levi's to anyone that doesn't read superdenim.

I was wearing my contest jeans when someone asked me when levis changed their stitching. Really. I felt so cheap.

[choice_genes]

This sucks. The Japanese repro companies have been putting out some fucking great stuff, and not just in terms of the cut and denim quality. The details - the red tab, their takes on the arcuate, etc - are just as important. Many ( esp on this board) would say that these small details make the jeans.

But I don't think there's any one right answer here. Levi's most certainly have a right to protect their trademarks. They have an incredibly well-defined brand identity. These details are the things that they trade on.

But at the same time, you've got to look at the INTENT of the Japanese companies in employing these trade-marked details. I follow on from the arguments of cult and others here: the main intention of the repro companies isn't to steal business from Levi's. They're revering Levi's and the iconography (wanky term, sorry) of 20th C American fashion. There designs are not direct rips - they are modern/humourous takes on classic levi's detailing.

It sucks that Levi's has all the power here. The repro companies are small businesses (except maybe sugarcane/toyo, but question whether toyo will get behind them here). On top of this - I'm making a big generalisation here, but I think it holds some relevance - Japanese culture tends to be non-confrontational. Levi's is just gonna push these dudes around. It's fucked because we might be losing some great jeans. And as someone said above, if this is fought in court and Levi's win, it may set a legal precedent which is restrictive. This might affect 'repro'/etc companies in other areas. Not just jeans. Fuck.

I send my support to both Selfedge and BIG. You guys haven't even been open a year and already you've been hit with this shit. Best of luck.

And if possible, can anyone post up links to any court documents etc? Or PM me. I'm interested in following this.

[Decades]

What time does Selfedge close out there? I got nothing but the answering machine.

[Jz3]

I used to be a Levi's fan till I bought 3 pairs of their jeans....gawd...the quality just went down in flames...I purchased a pair of engineered jeans from Singapore/ 2 pairs of 527's from LA and the quality for all was just terrible...

Levi's shld spend more time trying to improve their quality and less time harassing other brands.....just my 2 cents.

[poly800rock]

What time does Selfedge close out there? I got nothing but the answering machine.

YOU GUYS ARE FORGETTING ABOUT BLUE IN GREEN

http://blueingreensoho.com/site/index.php

they have a webstore. selfedge might be closed.....but webstore is 24/7

[poly800rock]

i'd probably still buy Levi's if they were made in America. I hate to say it, but I really go out of my way to support American made products. Same with new balance, when they moved operations overseas and out of Boston, I kind of gave up on them. Levi's the same. The quality of the old USA made premium line is phenomenal, the Levi's red stuff was very nice. But since they moved everything to europe, china, or mexico, I have no reason to buy Levi's as other quality products are available. I could give 2 shits whats on my back pockets honestly...

[minimal]

I was wearing my contest jeans when someone asked me when levis changed their stitching. Really. I felt so cheap.

That would SUCK.

We're not losing greats jeans, it's only going to get better. I hate those details anyways man, fuck levis. It's the denim we're after, not the arcuate stitches and fucking tabs. These guys will drop the repro bullshit and start making some amazing jeans.

[Decades]

YOU GUYS ARE FORGETTING ABOUT BLUE IN GREEN

http://blueingreensoho.com/site/index.php

they have a webstore. selfedge might be closed.....but webstore is 24/7

They don't have what I want in the size I need otherwise I definitely would.

[toufu]

I could give 2 shits whats on my back pockets honestly...

o_O...what about evisu's daicock??!

i on the other hand, definately fuking give whats on my ass lol

death to daicocks...

[cultpop 0217]

Most of you guys are looking for jeans with slubby denim very trim fit low rise and original 501s were not like that. LVCs current 55 501s are very close in denim weight, texture and cut to originals. The 47s are different issue. They are cut very trim compared to origianls.

too bad LVC quality has gone to shit. maybe the details are on point but i'm sure those lvc 55's wont be around in 20 or 30 years. and the low rise slubby jeans you speak of are not repros of 501s.

someone get larry lessig on the phone.

no one looks at a pair of samurais or sugar canes or d'artisans or whateverthefucks and mistakes them for levis (thai and other fakes are a different story altogether).

these jeans are an homage to niche, iconic denim workwear; they're remixing a played-out trope, adding their own detailing and subtle variations, combining fabrics and cuts and picking up the mantle that levi's dropped (sadly) all too long ago.

no one is trying to pass of their product as levi's.

these are loving reinterpretations of products of a bygone era, and they frankly have absolutely ZERO to do with trademark infringement.

would that levi's were expending the same amount of time and energy celebrating and developing an appreciation for the history of the products that put them where they are today...

truth.

[xcoldricex]

o_O...what about evisu's daicock??!

i on the other hand, definately fuking give whats on my ass lol

death to daicocks...

we like the diacock...

so when's lee and wrangler going to start suing people?

[RAiNEEZY]

this is gonna make those jeans more sought after, right?

correct me if im wrong.

[cultpop 0217]

so when's lee and wrangler going to start suing people?

there you go. 2 perfect examples right there. wrangler lets other designers have a crack at their stuff and the results have been pretty great (anyone see those marc jacobs wranglers? awesome. ) edwin makes lees repro stuff.

if levi's doesnt want to do their vintage stuff justice why not let sugarcane or sda do it?

again, there was a better way to handle this on levi's part.

ok i think i'm done.

[polishmike]

The Marc Jacobs Wranglers are a collaboration, so you can't really compare them.

Let's wait few days and see what happens. I was going to order another pair of Samurai pretty soon so I'm going to email them and ask if they can mail it either to Europe or US.

[poly800rock]

there you go. 2 perfect examples right there. wrangler lets other designers have a crack at their stuff and the results have been pretty great (anyone see those marc jacobs wranglers? awesome. ) edwin makes lees repro stuff.

if levi's doesnt want to do their vintage stuff justice why not let sugarcane or sda do it?

again, there was a better way to handle this on levi's part.

ok i think i'm done.

as much as i support your view cult it's two different things. marc jacobs x wrangler is a colab, as is levis x fenom or whatever else...its not a brand doing specifically repros of their former jeans..in the case of edwin maybe

[hideout]

let's just start an online petition. it's a surefire plan.

[the black arm]

my read on cultpop's comment was why isn't levi's reaching out to the japanese repro makers to do collab's and share revenue like wrangler has done with marc jacobs, built by wendy etc. obviously we don't know if they haven't, but my guess is slapping manufacturers and retailers with agressive notices like thye have makes me think they weren't moving in that direction.

[cultpop 0217]

The Marc Jacobs Wranglers are a collaboration, so you can't really compare them.

Let's wait few days and see what happens. I was going to order another pair of Samurai pretty soon so I'm going to email them and ask if they can mail it either to Europe or US.

as much as i support your view cult it's two different things. marc jacobs x wrangler is a colab, as is levis x fenom or whatever else...its not a brand doing specifically repros of their former jeans..in the case of edwin maybe

you guys are right. it is different. but there is no reason levi's couldnt have approached sda or sugarcane (or any number of other brands) and set up something like what wrangler did. levi's would have gotten a cut and would have an excellent product with their name on it and denim fans would have completely embraced it. instead they choose to be the big bad bully.

levi's has tried and tried to get back a piece of the "connoisseur" denim market and has been pretty unsuccessful so they want to put a thorn in the sides of those that are doing it better.

it doesnt really matter. im sure the japanese denim market will come back even stronger than before and levi's grip will slip even further.

my read on cultpop's comment was why isn't levi's reaching out to the japanese repro makers to do collab's and share revenue like wrangler has done with marc jacobs, built by wendy etc. obviously we don't know if they haven't, but my guess is slapping manufacturers and retailers with agressive notices like they have makes me think they weren't moving in that direction.

that was exactly my point.

[the black arm]

this deal has me all worked up, levi's is such an amazing brand, but the company is squandering it, and it kills me. intellectual property infringement is nothing new, how a company manages their ip being infringed upon tells alot about the companies thinking, whether its looking ahead or looking back. not quite related but take youtube as an example, its full of blatant ripped off content. .. look at how the old school media compaies are managing that, they've more or less learned from the napsters of the past and are trying to figure out a way to work with youtube and make money off of the natural demand from the consumers consuming their content (right now illegally). but their attitude is consumer focused for now, trying to meet the consumers where they are. levi's on the other hand is moving against the high-end artisan denim manufactures and in the same move against the consumers. pisses. me. off.

[thelion1856]

so is blue in greene still accepting onlne orders or will they just send me a "im sorry we cant fill your order" email because of this shit levis is trying to pull?

[poly800rock]

so is blue in greene still accepting onlne orders or will they just send me a "im sorry we cant fill your order" email because of this shit levis is trying to pull?

i'd just order and find out....i'm pretty sure you're good to go...could be wrong but what do you have to lose?

[sidneylo]

so is blue in greene still accepting onlne orders or will they just send me a "im sorry we cant fill your order" email because of this shit levis is trying to pull?

Damn lion you are unstoppable right now. BUY UP!