1886 green line

[airfrogusmc]

Very cool. The 1886 repros are suppose to be repros of the first 501. I've never heard of 204s but with the cloth tag and the #2 denim on the tag makes me think its the great grandad of the 201.

[Ahlvahroe]

is that a weird angle or is the leg opening like 30 inches?

[tweeds]

is that a weird angle or is the leg opening like 30 inches?

it's probably more comfortable to work in looser jeans, and i'm sure the angle played a part.

airforgusmc, that's an interesting point about the No. 2. the evisu classification (No. 1 Special, No. 2, No.3) has its roots in the levi's system?

[Paul T]

it's probably more comfortable to work in looser jeans, and i'm sure the angle played a part.

204 are the kids' version of the 201! That's why the sizing looks bizarre. That pair would date from circa 1890. From memory, the same applied to the 501, so the 502 and the 504 were the youth's and kids' version.

501 were the premium model, with Amoskeag denim. 201 were the cheaper jean, unspecified denim, but the same weight I believe... more slubby. Generally they were identical, but with a linen patch on the 201 version; supposeedly the 501 was linen-sewn, again it's hard to see the difference today.

[airfrogusmc]

Thanks Paul. Makes since....

[tweeds]

Paul, is amoskeag still in operation today? thanks for the info regarding the 204. so it would still be sort of accurate for Little to have captioned it as a very old 501, since the cut would have been similar, as would the external details...in a layman's manner of speaking that is. strictly speaking, of course, Little didn't properly caption that photo.

[Paul T]

Paul, is amoskeag still in operation today? thanks for the info regarding the 204. so it would still be sort of accurate for Little to have captioned it as a very old 501, since the cut would have been similar, as would the external details...in a layman's manner of speaking that is. strictly speaking, of course, Little didn't properly caption that photo.

You'd have to use 'sort of' pretty liberally - I didn't look properly, but I assumed the caption mentioning a 30s 501 was for another photo, as it looks completely different. He musti've known it was a kids' jean, and the model number is clearly visible on the patch, the patch looks c ompletely different, as do the pocket details, suspender buttons etc. Those are pretty interesting jeans, I'm not aware that Levi's have any early 201s with fabric in comparably unwashed condition. The 201 denim is lovely, it influenced the inky, greenish, slubby look of some of the best RED jeans.

Amoskeag was a huge operation, a massive factory townin New Hampshire, one opf the biggest fabric mills in the world, but there was a long, bitter strike, and they were undercut by mills in the south who were closer to where the cotton was produced - they shut down in the 1930s. There a poignant book with lots of oral histories from its workers, called Amoskeag, Life And Work in An American Factory City.

[tweeds]

was that the reason for the switch to Cone denim on levi's part? i'll go and look for the book in the library - see if i can find it and flip through. there's so much about denim history and technicalities that i just don't know it's scary, but i'm determined to fill in the gaps.

and yeah that was what i wondered when i saw the photo - are there even 1886 501s in that condition still around? that pair of 201/204s must have been preserved in storage or hidden in the desert or something to keep that colour. haha.

[Paul T]

was that the reason for the switch to Cone denim on levi's part?.

Partly, I believe, supply glitches and pricing were almost certainly the reason for the switch, and Cone took over from Amoskeag as the USA's major denim supplier around that time. This was also the time the denim changed from vegetable-dye to synthetic, so I would guess Cone had a generally more modern production facility.

Funnily enough, kids' vintage clothing is often priced lower than the full-size stuff, if I were a collector that's what I'd go for I reckon, they'd certainly take up less space in your cupboards. Levi's do have some wonderful kids' dungariess in excellent condition in their archives, they're pictured in the Denim book.

[tweeds]

so amoskeag's decline also saw the boom of cone mills - this would have been around the 1930s wouldn't it, since synthetic indigo was invented only about then?

good point about kids vintage clothing, Little makes the same point, and frankly if for nothing else i'd buy itbecause it's cheaper. if i get down to collecting, i certainly won't be wearing the vintage myself, so it wouldn't have to fit me at all.