Jeans of the Old West: A History

[Sansome1877]

I'll email Lightning for those photos, they came over to my house a few days ago and took photos of my collection. They had me dress up for a few photos.( I know i'm going to look like shit) Page 64 in the book shows David Neustadters 1875 patent for those inner pocket reinforcement pieces..

[glimmertwins]

I'll email Lightning for those photos, they came over to my house a few days ago and took photos of my collection. They had me dress up for a few photos.( I know i'm going to look like shit)

...this may seem like a stupid question but where do you find denim that old? I mean this isn't exactly the type of stuff that pops up when you search for "old ass denim" on ebay....plus I imagine you want to closely inspect stuff like that before you acquire it as I would think there is some sort of forgery market out there for stuff like that too. You don't have to divulge too much, but I would love to hear a story or two about some ridiculous places you have found 100+ year old denim at.

[Maynard Friedman]

Does anyone know when the Levis rivet patent expired and other companies started using rivets on their own overalls?

[LandoCal126]

Congrats Sansome1877! (Out of Rep/ Must Spread) I have purchased 5 copies thus far for different people who have requested it outside of the states as well as for friends as gifts. I cannot wait to sit down and get into it. Also glad aho started this thread so that anything that I have questions on or what not will already be discussed here. Genius!

[SLAB]

great stuff, id love to get a pair of those jeans/ducks myself but 500$ is a little too steep for my wallet (even if it is handcrafted and limited).

on a brighter note, my copy of the book is on it way from amazon

[entertainment!]

Does anyone know when the Levis rivet patent expired and other companies started using rivets on their own overalls?

I can tell you haven't received your copy of the book yet! If there is one thing I have learned it is that the answer is 1890. Other than the chapter on Levi's, all the waist overalls shown in the book were created by competitors of Levi's to strengthen the jeans without using rivets. The focus of the book is from the discovery of riveted clothing to the expiration of the patent: 1873-1890.

[mtchfrnk]

Here are some pics of some cans that Mike has dug up as well. He believes these to be from the 1880s.

The colors are so rich on these things. Why was shit so much cooler back then?

Poisonous chemicals, probably

[entertainment!]

One of the most interesting bits of information I picked up from the book is that miners did not like to wear suspenders. If they needed help holding up their jeans they used a piece of rope as a crude belt. That's a look we should try to revive.

[Maynard Friedman]

I can tell you haven't received your copy of the book yet! If there is one thing I have learned it is that the answer is 1890. Other than the chapter on Levi's, all the waist overalls shown in the book were created by competitors of Levi's to strengthen the jeans without using rivets. The focus of the book is from the discovery of riveted clothing to the expiration of the patent: 1873-1890.

Thanks, ordered mine from Amazon yesterday so should be with me soon.

[mtchfrnk]

One of the most interesting bits of information I picked up from the book is that miners did not like to wear suspenders. If they needed help holding up their jeans they used a piece of rope as a crude belt. That's a look we should try to revive.

Not a bad idea. I'm for anything that encourages people to learn fun knots.

Friction hitch knots would be especially useful in this application. Trucker's hitch could be good too.

[Joseph Hill]

Poisonous chemicals, probably

Not poisonous, just insanely labour intensive, artistically demanding, and expensive. Stone lithography utilizing generally three (rare) to nine stones (one slab of specially polished granite up to three hundred pounds per) for each color. Individually drawn in with wax to grab the ink, and must be painterly with exact register to each other. Try painting a picture with crayons, then try nine pictures where you only draw one color at a time (and must blend with other colors), then do it on a surface where you don't see the colors only a differing sheen. There is a reason why original stone liths are valuable (even though they are 'just' prints).

Awesome book, and I will have mine soon. Thank you very much for all your work putting it together. It really is spectacular. And even though I probably can't ever afford any, getting the reproductons made really is awesome. It's like being able to zap back in time to see the history as new.

And thanks switch for all the great pictures and boosting.

[cash]

Not to turn this into a printing discussion, but the vibrancy of the color is due more to the compounds in the ink and less to the printing process (although printing process does contribute). The quality of the print is due to the lithography process, though. The ink, however, may not have been all that poisonous. I'd have to do some research, it could have been all natural inks, which in some cases hold up very nicely -- in some cases, not so much. However, there is nothing like some heavy metals in an ink to keep it vibrant for 100+ years (my background is more in commercial printing than art, so my knowledge of ink is very much a late 20th Century paradigm). Regardless, the print job on those tins, which were more or less disposable from the manufacturer's point of view, was ridiculously over-engineered -- and thus the reason no retail packaging printed today will look that good in 100 years.

[Sansome1877]

Great information on the printing process, I will be adding items to this thread that were used, by the (working man, women and child) that lived in the west during 1860 to 1900. Whiskey bottles from the 1870's are going to be pictured here, whiskey was called fire water for a good reason. I sampled some whiskey from 1868, I took two shots of this stuff and I was nearly smashed. I think it was 160 proof(it made modern whiskey seem like water) I am working on a long post that will tell the entire story of my friend that bought 5 gallons of 1868 Whiskey.

[rnrswitch]

Joseph, Cash,

Thanks for the background info on the printing process. It's interesting what kind of in depth knowledge the people roaming around these parts have.

Sansome,

Looking forward to those pics and especially the story of your buddy who bought the whiskey. I think you started to tell the story on Saturday, but it was a hectic night for you, being pulled in every which way.

[andewhall]

Awesome project...did a great job, cheers for sharing the pic's. Need to get the book too. Loving the hand sewn button holes on the original pair.

[mtchfrnk]

Just got this email from amazon.com:

"The item(s) listed below will actually ship sooner than we originally expected:

Michael Harris "Jeans of the Old West"

Previous estimated arrival date: September 08 2010 - September 16 2010

New estimated arrival date: August 18 2010"

Why thank you amazon.com. That is extremely awesome.

[rnrswitch]

Fit pics for all you chumps.

[Sansome1877]

Nice fit, I'm going to take pictures tomorrow of the elfets next to the originals. I'll take some fit pictures of my 1873 's on page 39(they are my size)

[Sansome1877]

Party pictures are up on the Rising Sun web site (still no pictures of rnrswitch)

[fardin]

thanks mike for the heads up. so larry was also there. nice. must have been some good discussions going on there.

switch they look great on you. how much will they shrink?

[Farhad]

great stuff mike!!! I'm gonna drop by rising sun and pick up a copy of the book next week.

[SLAB]

great vintage fit rnr (can't rep now )

and if im going to use rope to hold up my jeans like those good old miners, it better be a meticulous 1890 reproduction, handmade in Japan, from an extinct tree specie

[cheapmuthafukr]

skateboarders have been doing that for years now... only its a shoelace not a rope. yall need to catch up.

[Maynard Friedman]

skateboarders have been doing that for years now... only its a shoelace not a rope. yall need to catch up.

...and tramps have been doing it even longer.

[entertainment!]

Yes, but I'm not trying to dress like a skateboarder or a tramp. I'm trying to look like a miner from the 1880s. The skateboarders and the tramps must have been copying the miners.

[cash]

Whiskey bottles from the 1870's are going to be pictured here, whiskey was called fire water for a good reason. I sampled some whiskey from 1868, I took two shots of this stuff and I was nearly smashed. I think it was 160 proof(it made modern whiskey seem like water) I am working on a long post that will tell the entire story of my friend that bought 5 gallons of 1868 Whiskey.

Unrelated to the book, but of interest anyway, a crate of Shackleton's Scotch was just defrosted.

[rnrswitch]

I'm trying to look like a miner from the 1880s.

I was thinking about this when I was getting ready this morning. A thought popped into my head... "Hmmm, I wonder which gel miner's used for their hair." and "Hmmm, while I am on miner's hair, what type of blow dryer would they use?"

[Sansome1877]

Unrelated to the book, but of interest anyway, a crate of Shackleton's Scotch was just defrosted.

The scotch is being preserved? The friend of mine who bought the 5 gallons of 1868 Whiskey, drank it all in under 3 months.

[cash]

^ Scotch is for drinking and jeans are for wearing.

Nice fit RNR, out of rep. When I first saw those jeans I was very impressed, but hey, I'll never spend $500 on pants. Then, the more time that passed and the more pictures that were posted, the more it has started to sound like a reasonable idea. I hope Rising Sun sell out fast, I really can't have that temptation out there.

[Maynard Friedman]

Yes, but I'm not trying to dress like a skateboarder or a tramp. I'm trying to look like a miner from the 1880s. The skateboarders and the tramps must have been copying the miners.

Perhaps the tramps were skateboarding miners who'd fallen on hard times