Are These Japanese Jeans Worth $800?

[rakis]

While searching for Iron Heart jeans online (thanks Minya) I found this article:

Are These Japanese Jeans Worth $800?

For the purist, there simply are no others but the ones made from Japanese denim.

By Mark van de Walle

If I had my way," says one denim aficionado, "I would move to Japan, set up a shop right next to my fabric mill, and sell nothing but Japanese jeans." This particular fanatic also happens to be the owner of a major U.S. artisanal jeans company, and he insists on remaining anonymous in order to avoid alienating homegrown suppliers.

Other obsessives, however, are more than willing to go on record about their mania for the Japanese version of America's work clothes. Take Rick Ayre, a former vice president at Amazon.com and the owner of several thousand pairs of jeans. Obviously, with so many to choose from, he finds it difficult to pick a favorite. "But ninety percent of what I would call my prized possessions come from Japan." Ayre keeps a few pieces in rotation at any given time and experiments with cheese graters and sandpaper to achieve the perfectly broken-in look he prefers. The ones he wears most, by the Japanese company R by 45rpm, are woven from organic cotton and dyed with handpicked organic indigo leaves. The style is called Jomon; prices start at $754 and run upwards of $1,400 if you opt for the customized seven-year wash. What makes a pair cost this much? Ayre's rhapsodic answer: "The finish and the natural dyes used by the Japanese create the most beautiful deep dark blue, which fades to a blue-green before it goes pale blue."

The secret is rooted in the culture's ancient ways with color and cloth. America may have popularized the blue jean back in 1872, but jeans made in Japan have an advantage: To this day the Japanese variety is dyed using a technique first perfected in Awa Prefecture 500 years ago. An aishi, or indigo master, oversees the process, which begins by fermenting the leaves from the indigo plant in a mixture of sake and other coloring agents. Distilled water is slowly added, then strands of unfinished cotton are dipped into the potion (up to 28 times for some types). Finally the raw material is woven on old-fashioned looms. This painstaking method, which takes more than three months, produces cloth that ranges in shade from purple and blue-black to turquoise-green.

For Ayre and other lovers of Japanese denim, the results are more than worth the time and expense. "Chemical indigo fades more easily, so jeans made this way actually break in faster," Ayre says. "But you just can't compare them with the subtle shades you get from natural dyes." Although the blue jean's true origin is difficult to trace—some sources cite early-19th-century south of France, others 16th-century Genoese sailors—there is no denying that America and Levi Strauss & Co. gave blue jeans their big break in the late 19th century, when the nation's workers adopted the pants as the unofficial uniform. Jeans have been synonymous with the U.S.A. ever since.

The Japanese saw the value in our heritage well before we did. In the late eighties, before Barneys had its Denim Bar and Sally Hershberger her line of $1,000 jeans, a craze for vintage denim swept Japan, with prices climbing to $25,000. In response, Hidehiko Yamane's company, Evis (changed to Evisu, for obvious legal reasons), developed the first reproduction vintage Levi's in 1987. By the nineties Japanese companies such as Sugar Cane, Iron Heart, and Denime were crafting limited-edition near-museum-quality replicas of classics like the 1947 Levi 501 and 1942 Lee 101B. All three labels used the ancient indigo dyes that caught on with collectors such as Ayre. They also wove the cotton into denim on a type of mechanical loom that had been sitting in factory basements in Okayama, the country's weaving capital, since the seventies. These machines produced narrow fabric (30 inches wide as opposed to the standard 70), yielding a cloth with a denser thread count, a softer feel, and a finished edge. Called selvage de

[ayn]

Yeah, I read that from the AMEX Departure magazine...

[Geowu]

Quote: They also wove the cotton into denim on a type of mechanical loom that had been sitting in factory basements in Okayama, the country's weaving capital, since the seventies.

Interesting. I wonder if it's true.

[asfberg]

didn't studio d'artisan start making their repro's in 1979?

[Gogeta888]

wow thats interesting

"My Name goes Here"

[Paul T]

" They also wove the cotton into denim on a type of mechanical loom that had been sitting in factory basements in Okayama, the country's weaving capital, since the seventies."

At last someone's done their research properly.

At the same time, there's something majorly depressing about people getting so obsessive about a form of clothing which has NEVER been about exclusivity. It makes jeans into just another item where more expensive is better. If your jeans look good, cool, but the moment it turns into a display of wealth, that becomes a horrible contradiction. As one shrink pointed out on the radio rather brilliantly last week, such consumerism leads to depression and a sense of helplessness...

[ringring]

*slaps Paul on the back in admiration*

Well said sir.

[Guest Guy H]

Quote:

" They also wove the cotton into denim on a type of mechanical loom that had been sitting in factory basements in Okayama, the country's weaving capital, since the seventies."

At last someone's done their research properly.

At the same time, there's something majorly depressing about people getting so obsessive about a form of clothing which has NEVER been about exclusivity. It makes jeans into just another item where more expensive is better. If your jeans look good, cool, but the moment it turns into a display of wealth, that becomes a horrible contradiction. As one shrink pointed out on the radio rather brilliantly last week, such consumerism leads to depression and a sense of helplessness...

--- Original message by Paul T on Mar 27, 2006 02:10 AM

I don't mind paying a fair bit for jeans if I know why I'm paying a premium eg the quality of the denim, the numbers of that jean made etc. What I hate is when the price is jacked up for what you know will be crap quality but they can hide behind the name of fashion.... even thought he jeans look terrible!

eg.

http://www.asos.com/Sixty-Leather-Patch-Pocket-Jeans/Prod/pgeproduct.aspx?iid=63587&cid=2310

£130!

I spent a lot of of money on booze, birds and

fast cars. The rest I just squandered - George Best

[Geowu]

Quote: If your jeans look good, cool, but the moment it turns into a display of wealth, that becomes a horrible contradiction.

I guess that always happens with clothes in any culture? It must depend more on each person's views, although for a denim lover any denim can be appreciated, I like the Japanese idea of simplicity, imperfection, quality (not only in denim but in everything). If you go against that, you go to hell.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

I wonder, do natural indigo dyed jeans really fade differently? Couldn't it be possible that most brands make their natural indigo dye different from their synthetic dyes on purpose, to motivate people to buy the pricier pair? If they look exactly the same, which I think they could, no one would buy the natural indigo dyed jeans over the cheaper pair dyed with synthetic indigo.

dontcaretoomuchforcrap CANT SKATE!!

[frideswide]

I remember when the wine craze hit ridiculous heights in the late 1980's / early 1990's.

Of course, if money was no object you could find fantastically exotic bottles of incredible wine that were almost too expensive to enjoy knocking back. Add to that the fact that many people got into wine simply for the status appeal of it, which was kind of obnoxious in itself.

So my friends and I thought... what a bore: there's no challenge in finding a good bottle for over $200 -- try finding a great one for under $5 ! (Don't forget this was the 1990's...). So we started an 'under $5 wine club' -- on our evenings together the winner was the one who brought the best bottle (as voted by the group) costing under $5. The prize was... well, $5. We had some great fun and drank some great wine I can tell you.

What does it have to do with jeans? If you look at the average price of really decent quality raw Japanese selvage jeans (Denime, Sugarcane, Samurai, Evisu Japan No. 2, Full Count, Dry Bones), it averages around 20,000 yen. That's about $170. Paying more than that gets you exotic stuff like natural indigo, limited editions, super slubby denim, etc. So my proposition is that unless you're into all that, there's no need to pay much more than $170 (plus whatever shipping, tax, fees, etc), and there are a lot of great jeans in that category for considerably less.

Edited by frideswide on Mar 27, 2006 at 12:12 PM

[giantreptile]

i saw a pair of levi's designed by junya watanabe for $970. i think that wins for most expensive ready-to-wear jeans that i've seen (previous title r by 45rpm at $754). i guess in that case you looking at a very limited run. what perplexes me is why the marc jacobs jeans are over $600.

[cheapmuthafukr]

Quote:

I remember when the wine craze hit ridiculous heights in the late 1980's / early 1990's.

Of course, if money was no object you could find fantastically exotic bottles of incredible wine that were almost too expensive to enjoy knocking back. Add to that the fact that many people got into wine simply for the status appeal of it, which was kind of obnoxious in itself.

So my friends and I thought... what a bore: there's no challenge in finding a good bottle for over $200 -- try finding a great one for under $5 ! (Don't forget this was the 1990's...). So we started an 'under $5 wine club' -- on our evenings together the winner was the one who brought the best bottle (as voted by the group) costing under $5. The prize was... well, $5. We had some great fun and drank some great wine I can tell you.

What does it have to do with jeans? If you look at the average price of really decent quality raw Japanese selvage jeans (Denime, Sugarcane, Samurai, Evisu Japan No. 2, Full Count, Dry Bones), it averages around 20,000 yen. That's about $170. Paying more than that gets you exotic stuff like natural indigo, limited editions, super slubby denim, etc. So my proposition is that unless you're into all that, there's no need to pay much more than $170 (plus whatever shipping, tax, fees, etc), and there are a lot of great jeans in that category for considerably less.

Edited by frideswide on Mar 27, 2006 at 12:12 PM

--- Original message by frideswide on Mar 27, 2006 12:06 PM

i think we should do this here with jeans. search out the cheapest jeans you would actually wear, and post up some pics and price. its easy to have nice shit for hundreds of dollars, but who can find good shit cheap? then we rate em on all the qualities that we denim heads care so much about. anyone with me?

denim is the new crack

[sneakeraddict]

Cheapmuthafukr:

I thought the Wrangler 13MWZ was generally considered to be the winner of that challenge?

[cheapmuthafukr]

yeah... but it would open peoples eyes to all the different choices. and if you factor in thrift stores, vintage shops, and discount stores(tj maxx, et al) then it isnt quite as clear as what really comes out on top. if you make the effort, you can find better than wranglers.

denim is the new crack

Edited by cheapmuthafukr on Mar 27, 2006 at 01:18 PM

[mizanation]

is anyone going to participate in this challenge?

should we have categories?

[Thorns]

I think the jeans I make myself should be in the running. They're beautiful 13 3/4 oz denim and the only price is the time it takes me to sew.

[DEPHT]

Never understood the "denim craze" myself, but I found a pair of dry denim at H&M for 30 bucks. I'm going to try waiting 3-6 months before a wash.

Depht...

[6MT]

YEAH BUT HOW DO YOU RATE A PAIR JEANS??? WHAT MAKES IT THE BEST? EVERY ONE IS SO STOKE ON CERTAIN BRAND, BUT SOME TIMES I FIND THEM NOT ATTARCTIVE AT ALL, ALL IN ALL LETS DO IT......

[6MT]

levi's type one, a gift from friend, cost like 8.95 at ROSS

[beefcake]

a nice read, thanks!

[john11f]

thanks! quite interesting.

[Serge d Nimes]

I think it is quite a contradiction to not like synthetic indigo jeans because they break in too quickly, but to take a cheese grater to a pair of natural indigo jeans. That dude from amazon should sell 99% percent of his jeans and actually get some honest wear out of one pair! I hae read other articles like this about him. I really don't know why he buys all of thse Japanese jeans instead of vintage Levis and Lee jeans. Those are at least a good investment.

[greentea]

i think he might be a SF'er.

[denimdestroyedmylife]

i love this part: "Chemical indigo fades more easily, so jeans made this way actually break in faster," Ayre says. "But you just can't compare them with the subtle shades you get from natural dyes."

Where's HorriblyJollyJinx?

[mizanation]

old article, but probably more relevant today.

[Chicken]

i still think studio d'artisan was before evisu, though.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

i love this part: "Chemical indigo fades more easily, so jeans made this way actually break in faster," Ayre says. "But you just can't compare them with the subtle shades you get from natural dyes."

Where's HorriblyJollyJinx?

hahahah

I don't believe anyone who says that and I think it's a huge generalisation - I think many natural indigo dyes are purposely made different than the synthetic ones.

Also, people that prefer natural indigo seem to prefer it and it's possible differences simply because it's natural indigo, there is no reason why the difference between these two dyes would make either better.

When I decide which fade looks better, I look at the fade and not the tags inside the jeans. Sometimes I like natural indigo, sometimes synthetic. Saying either is better is 100% bullshit!

[andewhall]

I think it is quite a contradiction to not like synthetic indigo jeans because they break in too quickly, but to take a cheese grater to a pair of natural indigo jeans. That dude from amazon should sell 99% percent of his jeans and actually get some honest wear out of one pair! I hae read other articles like this about him. I really don't know why he buys all of thse Japanese jeans instead of vintage Levis and Lee jeans. Those are at least a good investment.

I agree. Having that many pairs of Jeans seems absurd, what was it 1000+? That would take up a whole room just for storage

[red]

this months men's vogue had a really shallow and misinformed article on denim.