Raleigh Denim

[grooveholmes]

Like many nerds on here I own both types of jeans. It just boils down to preference. I don't think one necessarily trumps another-- they're just... different. You can wear a pair of each and over a few months, you might find more dramatic fades on the Japanese denim, but is that "better"? It's pretty subjective. You're also dealing with dyeing processes, and desired fading/whiskering, so some jeans are good for that as well. Some jeans are intentionally slubby/chattery. And then there's weight, or construction. I just enjoy quality, and for that I don't try to get caught up in the "which is better" debate. It's like two art historians with masters degrees in different periods debating the merits and virtues of their respective fields of study.

I will say that when i brought a pair of PRPS Barracuda raw jeans to Victor, he definitely appreciated the quality and feel of the Zimbabwean denim. I wouldn't read into it any more than to say-- I think the people who really know denim can be content with the relative subjectivity when you're dealing with quality fabrics and still appreciate other companies' approach.

I like my Raleighs because the black seed cotton feels ridiculous-- I don't have another pair like it. But, they have not faded much even with a soak and a wash over the past 8 months. Personally, I'd like to have seen more "aging" but that's just the way it is. My favorite pair of jeans are my PRPS Ramblers, because i love the cut, feel and fades over the past two years-- very interesting. And I also love my ROYs, but I could never say one is better than the other, even though one is undoubtedly handmade by one man (aka one badass motherf*cker).

Oh, I've answered your question about soaking these. I had to soak them about 2 months in because I'd been wearing them almost every day and they got pretty smelly. I didn't notice any smokiness then, just regular jean stank. I've got some R&B cone mills and don't notice anything unusual-smelling.

[rnrswitch]

Groove - no worries! The smell is not particularly offensive, I sort of associated it with Cone Selvage. Figured it was one of the idiosyncracies of it as the Tellasons and Raleighs have the same smell. I did not notice it on my Roys, but they were soaked shortly after I received them.

Groove - have you soaked or washed your Raleighs yet? Or for that matter do you have other Cone Selvage that you have washed?

Oh and what are your thoughts on Cone Selvage? I got the impression that some of the Superfuturites dislike Cone (Ande Whall used to use Cone). I made a query on when he would use it again and was told by more than a few that they hoped never.

Anyways, I will keep looking into the smoke smell...maybe it is the indigo, or maybe it is Canada Customs, who knows?

About the smoke smell. Are the Tellasons and Raleighs made of sanforized denim or unsanforized. Your ROYs are unsanforized. So if the Tellasons and Raleighs both smell that way, and the ROYs did not, then I would say the smell is a result of the sanforization process. Also, I have noticed a somewhat smokey smell (although i may not describe it as smokey) with some CONE denims. My AB Elfelt repros by Rising Sun have that smell and they are sanforized.

About CONE denim. Cone is stubborn, maybe as stubborn as SDA denim. A lot of people don't like that. Look at the Sugar Cane Okinawa denim. That shit fades crazy fast and people love it on this board, hell I love it, but I also have grown a fondness for cone denim. Cone is typically tightly woven and evenly dyed, which if you are trying to produce a great product would seem like good characteristics. Of course on this board we like errors and uneven weaves and such. Okinawa denim is the antithesis to CONE denim. Although, I have seen some cone denim that is very slubby and uneven. I could post some pics if anyone wants. I got the denim from premium denim outlet and it is sanforized, but after a wash it looks very uneven.

[aho]

^Let's see pics!

[scientifick]

Damn I've lived in Raleigh for the past 14 years and I haven't heard about them till now. Heading back to Raleigh from school this coming weekend or the week after so I'll definitely be checking these out soon.

I went to the same highschool as Victor haha

[rnrswitch]

^Let's see pics!

When I get home today. Hopefully i will have time.

[grooveholmes]

I definitely would e-mail or call Sarah and Victor if you want to swing by their shop-- they're super cool. As I've stated elsewhere in this thread they might even have a few previous season's items marked down if you're looking for a deal (can't guarantee it, but regardless, I think the jeans are worth the investment). i wish they'd move to downtown Durham (lot of cool things going on down there), but I guess that would defeat the purpose of the brand's namesake.

Damn I've lived in Raleigh for the past 14 years and I haven't heard about them till now. Heading back to Raleigh from school this coming weekend or the week after so I'll definitely be checking these out soon.

[grooveholmes]

Anyways, I will keep looking into the smoke smell...maybe it is the indigo, or maybe it is Canada Customs, who knows?

Noodle-- I saw the post on the Tellason thread. Looks like you got your answer... Nice detective work!

[CML]

I don't understand the thing about handcrafted/handmade jeans. When I think of handmade jeans, I imagine people handstitching the denim together. On every single pair of jeans there is needed a pair of hands, mass production or not. You can't make jeans without hands. So how can you justify when you may call your jeans "handcrafted"?

[grooveholmes]

This is a good question, because in any industry, "handcrafted" can mean different things to different people. In a very literal sense, sure, yes, every pair of jeans requires at least SOME sort of human involvement in the process. I think most everyone understands this. My understanding is that what separates many of the brands discussed on this site (not just Raleigh), and say, the mass-produced jeans found in department stores, (apart from the quality of the denim itself) is the method and technique(s) used to manufacture the jeans themselves. This can boil down to the degree to which human skill is needed to operate the different types of machinery, which then affects time put into the creation of the jeans, which affects the scale of production*.

Raleigh (already posted in this thread)

(Discovery Channel)

(The dude on this seems nice, but I get kind of a "I'm talking out my rear-end" vibe at times)

Rising Sun (video by Put This On)

And of course, most people have heard of Roy Slaper.

*I don't know enough about pattern-making, but I know this step of the process requires a lot of skill as well.

For the non-mass produced jeans, I think it's important to notice the machinery that is being used in the construction of the jeans (again, not the denim itself). Older, vintage machines are simply time-consuming, but when paired with a skilled artisan, the result is a higher quality jean made of quality fabric and hardware. At the time of this writing, I think Raleigh Denim runs with about 14-15 people. I've been to the shop and if Sarah and Victor aren't making the jeans themselves, they're checking the quality of the finished product itself. The difference with Roy (and quite the miracle) is that it is a one-man operation from manufacture to quality control. The similarity is the level of care and time put into creating the jeans, hence the use of the word "craft". I suppose that the Momotaro jeans featured in the link are "handmade" in the truest sense of the word, hence the hefty price tag.

Anyone with more knowledge please chime in because I know I don't have all the answers. I hope this helps.

[Noodle36]

Any word on the 1966s' yet? I emailed Raleigh and spoke with John in NAm sales, he said they were in the works. No release date confirmed. Anyone else have more info?

[Paul T]

Oh and what are your thoughts on Cone Selvage? I got the impression that some of the Superfuturites dislike Cone (Ande Whall used to use Cone). I made a query on when he would use it again and was told by more than a few that they hoped never.

Quite a few people are prejudiced against Cone, for a variety of reasons, one of which is that they make most of the denim for Levi's, , who are the enemy, in some people's books. I've worn a lot of Cone and a lot of Japanese fabric; Japanese denim is more varied, the best Cone is unique, but I've come to believe that the argument that one is inherently and consistently better than the other is baloney - usually advanced by someone with a commercial axe to grind.

A couple of times recently I've seen Cone slagged off by people who have a huge collection of jeans but rarely post worn-in photos. I guess they're judging the denim by some other criteria, perhaps how it looks on the shelf.

When they pass opinions, Noodle, maybe get them to post their own worn-in denim, if it's so amazing.

[erk]

Any word on the 1966s' yet? I emailed Raleigh and spoke with John in NAm sales, he said they were in the works. No release date confirmed. Anyone else have more info?

Victor tells me that they WILL get to them. They've been very busy moving into a new warehouse in downtown Raleigh (which I have yet to see, but victor assures me its awesome). So I figure once Victor and Sarah get all settled in at the new place, work will resume on the 1966 inspired pair.

[Vandon]

Anyone get the Barney's 25th Anniversary Edition Raleigh Denim? I did... amazing details and impressive Black Seed Pima Cotton Material from Cone but I just wish instead of an 18" leg opening it was slimmer and more like a 16 or even 17" opening.

[grooveholmes]

Yeah, the Elliott jean I have is black seed with an 18" opening. I love em a lot, but don't quite like the wider opening since I've moved to slimmer fits. I haven't visited the shop in awhile. I should ask him if he has any plans to offer a slimmer fit using the BS denim.

[Vandon]

Yeah same here, I'm in love with the material but I'm wearing my Ande Whall Cougars WAY more than my Raleighs. I hope Victor plans on offering something like a slimmer fit (in at least 14 oz Black Seed) once they finish moving into their new shop.

[Vandon]

Fit pics of the Barney's 25th Anniversary Raleigh Denim (22/25) in 14.5 oz silver selvedge Black Seed Pima Cotton from Cone, 18" leg opening (an inch too loose :/), and straight fit.

[smittybat]

I'm interested in the Raleigh contest, even though that post disappeared..

[Vandon]

same here!

[lance]

Raleigh Denim indigo dyed canvas - O/W, really dark, beautiful, stiff 11 1/2 oz canvas, selvege, contrast red chain stitch - slim! Cone, White Oak Canvas Thanks to erk for the heads-up

macro of canvas

comparison with PBJ indigo dyed chino - softer, different weave, but also really nice

[J hundred]

I have no idea why this post disappeared. I'm going to talk to Victor about it sometime this week. I'll let you everyone know what the deal is. I am going to try and shoot some photos of the new shop while im there.

[Noodle36]

I keep checking this thread with the hope one day I will see that the 1966's are done...any news? Anyone? I'm holding out even though strike gold released a 23oz that looks really good. Not as good as deadstock cone! But good nonetheless.

[Noodle36]

I wonder if first priority for the 66's will be given to superfuturites or other threads; or will they just be released and its first come first served?

[erk]

when I first spoke to victor about this he said he wanted it to be specifically for superdenim people. I haven't heard anything about any of this for a long time, so I don't know what to tell you now. I'll send him an email this week about it.

[Gilf]

I emailed raliegh twice, haven't heard anything either. Any idea on prices for these? Since this is a rarer denim, what type of stretch are we looking at? I've notice cone mills tends to stretch A LOT

[grooveholmes]

Haven't had time to go downtown-- I'm sure they're busy. Have you guys seen the Tenue de Nîmes x Raleigh collab? They've used the indigo canvas again... beautiful.

http://www.tenuedenimes.com/shop/product/tenue-de-nimes-x-raleigh-denim-collaboration/#

[rnrswitch]

Ahhhh. More cone stuff. Hype. Hype. Hype. Fanboys!

[Noodle36]

From what I understand, the denim will be unsanforized and will "reduce in size" (to quote Roy Slaper) to the intended size. It will likely stretch out from the reduced size. My only experience with this type of denim, other than the 1st gen roys and a pair of sugarcanes. I showered in my sugarcanes, had a bath in my roys. Then after about 8 months soaked both again in hot water but did not notice an extreme reduction nor did I notice them stretch that substantially in the 8 months of wear.

[Noodle36]

A local outfit here carries Raleighs. I posted some pics to my Facebook account to eventually post on Sufu. The owner saw what I had posted; this in turn started some discourse back and forth. He will be checking in with Raleigh to see when the 66's will be available. Does anyone else have some info? 2011 will be a good Jean year with the AW contest and the 66's. Can't wait...really the anticipation is killing me!!

[Noodle36]

Almost pulled the trigger on a pair of the vintage inspired cone. Slim cut is great and the taper is subtle and awesome!! The weft has a greenish tinge almost similar to the samurai element model. If I wasn't saving all my pennies for a pair of the 66s I would have bought them for sure.

[Gilf]

heard from sarah, she said to keep checking on here. i'm assuming that if it will 'shrink to size' a 34 will actually have a 36+ waist?