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homi29

Is it time to get off a sinking ship?

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I do not see the West as a sinking ship

The world is not coming to an end and all of us are incredibly fortunate to be alive right now. You probably take for granted things which 50 years ago would seem like miracles

If you are young now you have more potential and opportunity than you imagine

This is nothing compared to the great depression or even the recessions of the last 20 or 30 years

This is he most advanced and comfortable the world has ever been and you would be a fool to think it can go backwards

The only change is that our extremely comfortable lives got a little less comfortable

The world is struggling to cope with the fact that nations can no longer exist in isolation. Competition and Empire cannot last, the only way economies will evolve is to cooperate on a worldwide scale

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I do not see the West as a sinking ship

The world is not coming to an end and all of us are incredibly fortunate to be alive right now. You probably take for granted things which 50 years ago would seem like miracles

If you are young now you have more potential and opportunity than you imagine

This is nothing compared to the great depression or even the recessions of the last 20 or 30 years

This is he most advanced and comfortable the world has ever been and you would be a fool to think it can go backwards

The only change is that our extremely comfortable lives got a little less comfortable

The world is struggling to cope with the fact that nations can no longer exist in isolation. Competition and Empire cannot last, the only way economies will evolve is to cooperate on a worldwide scale

Then I'd say we definitely need to reform how we handle globalists, because let's face it... Some people aren't working for the benefit of the common earthling. Mix that with the astronomical power of central banking families like Rothschild (yes, they really are that powerful and that atrocious) and those who control global resources and we've got a huge problem that nobody seems to have the power to confront right now.

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Then I'd say we definitely need to reform how we handle globalists, because let's face it... Some people aren't working for the benefit of the common earthling. Mix that with the astronomical power of central banking families like Rothschild (yes, they really are that powerful and that atrocious) and those who control global resources and we've got a huge problem that nobody seems to have the power to confront right now.

You are right

The greatest opposition to change are those that seek to support a creaking system which only furthers their own greed

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if anyone is still doubting that we're fucked

2015 - The last year in which the world could afford a net rise in greenhouse gas emissions, after which "very sharp reductions" are required.

2016 - No more Indium (used for LCDs, solar panels) left*

2018 - Aral Sea completely gone

2021 - 50% chance Lake Mead (water resevoir for Pheonix AZ and Las Vegas NV) will be dried up

2027 - No more Silver left to extract*

2029 - Antimony (component of batteries, medicine) is gone*

2030 - Unless overfishing and poaching are addressed, there will be no mature tuna left.

- Arctic is ice free during the summer

- Most coral reefs have died due to increased ocean acidification

2033 - Ogallala Aquifer, which waters one fifth of US agriculture, potentially dries up

- No more Lead left to extract*

2036 - No more Tin left to extract*

2047 - No more Zinc left to extract*

- No more Uranium left to extract*

2048 - No more seafood

- Atlantic Sharks, and many other shark species, are extinct

2050 - Great Barrier Reef is virtually dead

2057 - No more Copper left to extract*

2060 - No more Gold left to extract*

2081 - No more Nickel left to extract*

2110 - Manatee likely to become extinct

* Date if the world's current consumption continues averaged with date if the world's current consumption is halved to get year.

You left out the year 2046, the year I will find a time machine and loop it so I can be in that year forevvvvverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

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if anyone is still doubting that we're fucked

2015 - The last year in which the world could afford a net rise in greenhouse gas emissions, after which "very sharp reductions" are required.

2016 - No more Indium (used for LCDs, solar panels) left*

2018 - Aral Sea completely gone

2021 - 50% chance Lake Mead (water resevoir for Pheonix AZ and Las Vegas NV) will be dried up

2027 - No more Silver left to extract*

2029 - Antimony (component of batteries, medicine) is gone*

2030 - Unless overfishing and poaching are addressed, there will be no mature tuna left.

- Arctic is ice free during the summer

- Most coral reefs have died due to increased ocean acidification

2033 - Ogallala Aquifer, which waters one fifth of US agriculture, potentially dries up

- No more Lead left to extract*

2036 - No more Tin left to extract*

2047 - No more Zinc left to extract*

- No more Uranium left to extract*

2048 - No more seafood

- Atlantic Sharks, and many other shark species, are extinct

2050 - Great Barrier Reef is virtually dead

2057 - No more Copper left to extract*

2060 - No more Gold left to extract*

2081 - No more Nickel left to extract*

2110 - Manatee likely to become extinct

* Date if the world's current consumption continues averaged with date if the world's current consumption is halved to get year.

Basic Economics explain while we most certainly will never extract all the lead, zinc, tin, silver etc...

Simple analogy: Imagine you win 5 million pistachios as a prize, all the pistachios are in one big room in piles, and you have to eat them in the room (you can't leave with any pistachios). You bring everyone you know to come and eat some pistachios, they throw the shells on the floor when they eat them. After a while you have to search through the shells to find the pistachios with the nut inside to eat.

Would you ever eat ALL the pistachios?? ....no way .to find the 4,999,999 pistachio you would have to search through 4,999,999 shells.... it wouldn't be worth it. Same thing applies to lead, zinc, tin, silver etc. It will get harder and harder(more and more expensive) to get the reserves out as time goes on, but that practically insures that they're will always be some left in the ground. Because its so expensive and difficult to get the last 1% say out of the ground.

So you should be skeptical of any reports about oil or lead or zinc just running out or being completely extracted from the ground. People were predicting oil would be used up in the 1800s....

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I normally do not get into conversations like this, but as for the US's current situation, we are just in a natural deleveraging process that is necessary to balance out with the last ~26 years. Alan Greenspan was a smart man, but his policies never allowed the economy to truly bottom, but instead reinflated the economy by pushing more leverage and letting money be cheaper. Look at a long term chart of long bonds (20-30yr treasuries). They have the cleanest uptrend since 1982 of any financial asset in the world. None of this was Greenspan's fault, he thought he was doing the right thing, but now we are seeing the repercussions of his actions by deleveraging everything from the past few decades in a matter of a few years. This still has some time to go, a few more years perhaps, but it's not the end of the world. Look at Japan in the early 90's. Similar situation, housing bubble, tremendous leverage extended to consumers, bubbles burst, stock market crashed, and life continued. They haven't really grown much since but they are still a superpower. As for whoever mentioned the Dow going up 200 points yesterday, the market has been setting up for a bear market rally for a while now, and we're probably going to rally for a couple months, especially if Geithner's plan on Monday is decent at all. Disclosure: I'm a full time options trader.

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Basic Economics explain while we most certainly will never extract all the lead, zinc, tin, silver etc...

Simple analogy: Imagine you win 5 million pistachios as a prize, all the pistachios are in one big room in piles, and you have to eat them in the room (you can't leave with any pistachios). You bring everyone you know to come and eat some pistachios, they throw the shells on the floor when they eat them. After a while you have to search through the shells to find the pistachios with the nut inside to eat.

Would you ever eat ALL the pistachios?? ....no way .to find the 4,999,999 pistachio you would have to search through 4,999,999 shells.... it wouldn't be worth it. Same thing applies to lead, zinc, tin, silver etc. It will get harder and harder(more and more expensive) to get the reserves out as time goes on, but that practically insures that they're will always be some left in the ground. Because its so expensive and difficult to get the last 1% say out of the ground.

So you should be skeptical of any reports about oil or lead or zinc just running out or being completely extracted from the ground. People were predicting oil would be used up in the 1800s....

hardly matters though whether there's no more of a resource left at all or no more of that resource left that's worth getting.

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while i agree the economy is cyclical to say that we are not in a very unique set of circumstances right now would be naive.

manufactoring in North America has been decimated and all that work has already moved abroad. What we have now is a service economy that wont work unless theres people who can afford/desire those services. The problem here is that people were given a false sense of affluence, everything from houses to stocks were worth more than they should have been. I think the problem is as much material as it is psychological. Peoples confidence in the world economy is pretty shaken imo

I normally do not get into conversations like this, but as for the US's current situation, we are just in a natural deleveraging process that is necessary to balance out with the last ~26 years. Alan Greenspan was a smart man, but his policies never allowed the economy to truly bottom, but instead reinflated the economy by pushing more leverage and letting money be cheaper. Look at a long term chart of long bonds (20-30yr treasuries). They have the cleanest uptrend since 1982 of any financial asset in the world. None of this was Greenspan's fault, he thought he was doing the right thing, but now we are seeing the repercussions of his actions by deleveraging everything from the past few decades in a matter of a few years. This still has some time to go, a few more years perhaps, but it's not the end of the world. Look at Japan in the early 90's. Similar situation, housing bubble, tremendous leverage extended to consumers, bubbles burst, stock market crashed, and life continued. They haven't really grown much since but they are still a superpower. As for whoever mentioned the Dow going up 200 points yesterday, the market has been setting up for a bear market rally for a while now, and we're probably going to rally for a couple months, especially if Geithner's plan on Monday is decent at all. Disclosure: I'm a full time options trader.

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China will never be a hegemon as long as they remain communist*. Economic power maybe, but they'll never reach the stage the US were at once upon a time.

From a Political, Economical, and Military stance, nobody can come close to the EU, and it's only a matter of time until they work as a conglomerate to start controlling the world.

As of right now, the EU is used mostly at an internal level to benefit the residents of the continent, but in no time at all they will start controlling (and everything will be hedged against the Euro as opposed to the USD).

It's all a matter of opinion, but really, there is no one nation in the world that can take on 27 nations working collectively.

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while i agree the economy is cyclical to say that we are not in a very unique set of circumstances right now would be naive.

manufactoring in North America has been decimated and all that work has already moved abroad. What we have now is a service economy that wont work unless theres people who can afford/desire those services. The problem here is that people were given a false sense of affluence, everything from houses to stocks were worth more than they should have been. I think the problem is as much material as it is psychological. Peoples confidence in the world economy is pretty shaken imo

I agree with you on this-- I didn't say that we aren't in a very unique circumstance. We definitely are in a unique circumstance. The leveraged growth of our economy (and asset pices as you pointed out) for 20+ years was a unique circumstance, and the deleveraging of it is just as unique. My point was generally that this is not the end of the world for the US, and that growth will resume once this process (a long one that that) is completed. While the deterioration of the economy is severe, and will continue to be, I do not believe we will see any kind of Great Depression, end of the world scenario. Can the US possibly lose its status as the biggest economy in the world? Sure, but it will still remain a superpower. It's just like Japan, as I pointed out in my last post, as well as Britain, as another poster pointed out. They've risen and fallen, but are still superpowers and are still well functioning countries, economically and socially. As for your comment about people's confidence in the world economy being shaken-- of course it is, this is the worst crisis the world has seen since the Great Depression, and this time around globalization has everybody involved. The world isn't ending though, just hectic times.

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im always amazed at how some people are so willing to dip out whenever a tough situation comes along.

People who are down to peace out of a country whenever there signs of trouble/decline clearly dont contribute to society as a whole anyway.. so if your really just a mark that runs away from problems rather than helping to solve them then yeah you should totally get the fuck out of NA and good riddance, youre part of the problem.

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im always amazed at how some people take everything literally and at face value whenever an obviously tongue-in-cheek internet comment is made..

id love to hear what you ever did to contribute to society

im always amazed at how some people are so willing to dip out whenever a tough situation comes along.

People who are down to peace out of a country whenever there signs of trouble/decline clearly dont contribute to society as a whole anyway.. so if your really just a mark that runs away from problems rather than helping to solve them then yeah you should totally get the fuck out of NA and good riddance, youre part of the problem.

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im always amazed at how some people take everything literally and at face value whenever an obviously tongue-in-cheek internet comment is made..

tone in your first post in this thread sounded fairly serious imo

but i'm with gouf on this one

i'd never let something as trifling as the dollar determine my patriotism

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damn it dude i was planning on dying in the year 2081 (seriously) so you just bummed me out. one saving grace is that on my death bed, i can know that there are still manatees around.

if anyone is still doubting that we're fucked

2015 - The last year in which the world could afford a net rise in greenhouse gas emissions, after which "very sharp reductions" are required.

2016 - No more Indium (used for LCDs, solar panels) left*

2018 - Aral Sea completely gone

2021 - 50% chance Lake Mead (water resevoir for Pheonix AZ and Las Vegas NV) will be dried up

2027 - No more Silver left to extract*

2029 - Antimony (component of batteries, medicine) is gone*

2030 - Unless overfishing and poaching are addressed, there will be no mature tuna left.

- Arctic is ice free during the summer

- Most coral reefs have died due to increased ocean acidification

2033 - Ogallala Aquifer, which waters one fifth of US agriculture, potentially dries up

- No more Lead left to extract*

2036 - No more Tin left to extract*

2047 - No more Zinc left to extract*

- No more Uranium left to extract*

2048 - No more seafood

- Atlantic Sharks, and many other shark species, are extinct

2050 - Great Barrier Reef is virtually dead

2057 - No more Copper left to extract*

2060 - No more Gold left to extract*

2081 - No more Nickel left to extract*

2110 - Manatee likely to become extinct

* Date if the world's current consumption continues averaged with date if the world's current consumption is halved to get year.

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nah doggie, i dont follow

its more like i be Kobe Bryant on the lakers just after they lost Shaq and i be asking for a trade to another team so i win get rings and more guap.

right after i read your first post i was thinking that we (north america) are like shaq after those championships, thinking they could beat detroit just because it was them. shaq was lazy on the conditioning that year

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coming from someone who's been in the greater china region for past 2 years

it'll happen, but not yet. Not as fast as people predict either, I'd give it at least another 25-30 years before things go full circle. Until then you guys have nothin to worry bout.

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Here's a post that will be ripped to shreds:

...Britain, as another poster pointed out. They've risen and fallen, but are still superpowers and are still well functioning countries, economically and socially.

Now if only elite powers didn't flood Great Britain, Germany, and Scandinavia with intolerant, racist, homophobic, mysogynistic, backwards thinking immigrants from the dumbest parts of the middle east and north africa under the guise of "progressive politics" long after the need for labor to rebuild after ww2, only so that they can better divide/conquer/control their populations.

i'd never let something as trifling as the dollar determine my patriotism

Very good.

im always amazed at how some people are so willing to dip out whenever a tough situation comes along.

People who are down to peace out of a country whenever there signs of trouble/decline clearly dont contribute to society as a whole anyway.. so if your really just a mark that runs away from problems rather than helping to solve them then yeah you should totally get the fuck out of NA and good riddance, youre part of the problem.

I agree here. I mean, I'm moving around a bit and I'm in love with Dubrovnik, but kids these days are beyond selfish. Again this completely contradicts most of the pseudo-leftist (and even I can admit this as a left-leaning person) ideas bother-bird-barfed into their tummies in colleges and universities across north america. They have no sense of community. A while back somebody started a post asking how bad the economy really was and how bad it will get. I had to gently remind people that the best way out of this is to make the effort to buy from small, local, family businesses. This means No supermarkets. No home depot. No giant corporate nationals. Shop small. Pay the extra 25 cents per item and you'll see your community stabalize. Social-minded consumerism will help us stabilize on a local level while creating... Jobs!

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i have a colleague who lives in a small town (i think it is Brock?) who doesn't really have a choice but to shop at local small grocery stores and stuff

the difference in cost is much more than just a quarter of a dollar, or else less people would have a problem supporting local business. of course, this price difference probably isn't always the case, but i'm just saying; easier said than done. i for one like going to local small restaurants

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At least when I pay a couple dollars more for a sandwich or food at a locally owned business Im actually helping the local economy because that money is most likely gonna be put back into it. (runon) It is also nice to have the better quality/service that most smaller places offer. The economy is not gonna get better if everyone is trying to cut corners and still giving their money to corporations that are spending said money on jets and meetings in the Caribbeans.

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i have a colleague who lives in a small town (i think it is Brock?) who doesn't really have a choice but to shop at local small grocery stores and stuff

the difference in cost is much more than just a quarter of a dollar, or else less people would have a problem supporting local business. of course, this price difference probably isn't always the case, but i'm just saying; easier said than done. i for one like going to local small restaurants

Well, I was being facetious. Even if that's the case, I shop local in baltimore and the price isn't that much higher, if at all higher. I'll admit right now that I walk a tightrope over the poverty line as a 23 year old student and part time worker of two shitty jobs. I'm willing to make it work because I make (small) sacrifices for what I want. These chains, along with the mentality that we can fart money out our ass whenever we want something has gotten us into a world of trouble.

This isn't aimed at your comment, but this is something I devote a pretty decent chunk of my time and energy into putting my money where my mouth is. I saw first hand the shit these creeps get away with and it bothers me. When I was little Wal-Mart paid off some crooked local politicians to use "Eminent Domain" to steal land from people in Parkville, where I'm from, to build a fucking Wal-Mart. Eminent Domain is when the government takes your private property away from you if, and only if, its for the "good of the whole." Apparently wal mart was for the good of the whole. You can google it if you like, they do this all over the country. And they're not the only ones who do it. Many, many, giant corporate chains do this.

Also, small towns are hit hardest in a multitude of ways when big chains slither their way in. Point and case - Wal Mart. We're all familiar. Wal Mart devastates local economies which eventually fucks your national economy. Low prices, ay? Where do they come from? It's not just the pressure big chains like that put on suppliers and manufacturers by forcing them to pay their employees less and less and use cheaper, shittier parts and resources (see: why snapper mowers left wal-mart). These big chains have nearly killed the American manufacturing workforce and forced manufacturers to move a lot of our jobs overseas. A large chunk of that price-slash comes from its very low-wage employees and by production workers in the far corners of the world whose near-slave labor winds up on Wal-Mart shelves. And it's not just fag-mart. It's the majority of these big fat fatso fatcats. Shall we talk supermarkets? Animal factories? The very entities that are killing family farming? The list could go on for pages. People can argue these points all they want in retarded ways if they like. But unless you're completely dilusional like Jayrock or something you'll understand that all the activism comes from a very serious concern over what is happening all around us.

Worth is what it's worth. People are worth more than that. When people's labor has worth, they can afford the difference. And when people have worth, the products have worth and have quality. When your products have worth and quality the world wants them. When the world wants your products you export your products. When you export your products you bring money back into the national economy. When you bring money back into your national economy you bring your national economy out of the serious shitshack mess we're in now. We import far more than we export. That's a big problem. All of this starts on the local level whether you like it or not.

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At least when I pay a couple dollars more for a sandwich or food at a locally owned business Im actually helping the local economy because that money is most likely gonna be put back into it. (runon) It is also nice to have the better quality/service that most smaller places offer. The economy is not gonna get better if everyone is trying to cut corners and still giving their money to corporations that are spending said money on jets and meetings in the Caribbeans.

Agreed.

From a website dedicated to promoting local business here in baltimore:

For every $100 spent at a locally owned business, $45 goes back into the community –and our tax base. For every $100 spent at a chain store, only $14 comes back*

Do the math.

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The human is weak.

Individuality is his weakness.

Utopia can never exist outside of a photograph.

Economists are the spotters of whirlpools.

Their eyes never look to the stars.

Only the hive-mind will flourish.

The sacrifice is mind, body and soul.

The reward is eternal rest.

To resist is to embrace the chaos therein and the hardships that beckon.

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I think it really depends on what profession you are in. If you are a chemical engineer, yikes. If you are psychiatrist, then you'll be fine.

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HAHAHAHA

WHERE IS WEBB

HIVE MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are you a transhumanist?

if so please wake the fuck up

no comment on the rest of the thread, except this: seriously homi?

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HAHAHAHA

WHERE IS WEBB

HIVE MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are you a transhumanist?

if so please wake the fuck up

no comment on the rest of the thread, except this: seriously homi?

hehe did that sound serious?....sweet lol

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hehe did that sound serious?....sweet lol

oh thank fuck

i have done extensive research on transhumanism

and let me just say

T____________________________T

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hehe did that sound serious?....sweet lol

...

...

...

?

Don't back down to that clown.

Employ sociobiology.

What you said actually has a lot of significance. Need I quote E.O. Wilson again? The only large societies that survive in harmony and with minimal social unrest are those that function as a hive. Study ants and bees for a while and you'll see a bigger picture when more of them are placed together in a specific area. Alone they are in chaos, but the more there are, the more you see a bigger picture. They start to form a single thinking mind through their use of chemicals and bees function similarly.

A human alone cannot survive, much like the ant. A human within a tribal scenario finds harmony and the ability to function very smoothly within a pack. A human in a large society again feels alone and experiences unrest. But, place a human within a large mass of humans, and you will eventually have a great unrest, leading to chaos and violence. That's where humans differ. We're small-pack animals. Large societies might not be the nature of our beast. Yet.

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I don't know what the means but it looks crazy-futuristic Worm..........thing is, I don't even like the Sci-Fi genre....but i did read Ender's Game recently...so I thought I'd sprinkle some crack up in this bitch.

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Also, I don't see where transhumanism is really the most relevant concept in regard to what whodini was saying. Even if he claims it was rambling, he might not have known it but there was some validity to that.

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