Mid-90's Underground "Pre-Backpack" Hip Hop Saved My...

[heBAY]

...sanity.

...especially when major label Hip Hop turned to a constant Puff Daddy "production" (he wasn't Diddy back then) or featured a very annoying Missy Elliott (at the time she wasn't deemed "creative"...she just couldn't rap). Remember, '96-'97 was the first time we really saw some corny "sell-out" shit take over on the radio/TV...granted we still had a hungry Mobb Deep, CNN, Jay-Z (although he was doing the shiny (banana) suit thing to a degree), Nas, Wu...etc. to run to...AND some of the artists/songs who were guilty of making "sell out" singles were still great (Biggie being a prime example)...but shit was funny when even Mic Geronimo signed to Bad Boy and put on a bright silk shirt to two-step in. That type of shit (to that degree) was new to us...I wasn't used to it (plus I was younger...so I immediately turned it away).

BUT...during that time...and a good year or two before, the underground/unsigned/independent scene was really bubbling and putting out some genuinely good/incredible fuckin' records. You'd go into Fat Beats (when it was on E. 9th Street in the basement) or Beat Street Records...or go online to Sandbox (one of the first cats to sell shit like that online)...and see what new, interesting record (possibly with a guest producer you recognized) would pop up before you. If it was a name you remember hearing of from 89.9 (Stretch Armstrong & Bobbito)...you probably picked it up.

Sorry, I was just digging through my crates and I came across some shit...although I sold most of my underground vinyl a few years ago...I'm sad but I'm also content...I pushed those shits steady and pretty much fucked the whole early eBAY/Hip Hop message board game up and paid mucho bills that way for years. I love France for that.

Name drop your favorites...I'm really thinking about stuff from '94 - '97 (maybe '98/'99 even)...before Rawkus became a major-indie...like pre-Blackstar Rawkus...before Ecko Unlimited was in every single store down Broadway...back when Fat Beats was either in the basement that was about to house Bobbito's Footwork or right when they moved to the West Side (before Fat Beats was in Cali). When Mista Sinista worked the register...then Q-Unique (Arsonists) and Ill Bill (Non Phixion...before Breezly Brewin worked there. Before it turned to bland, weird, pseudo-, pretentious, stale, boring, "white bread," and whatever else you can call 99% of underground hip hop that has come out for the last 6-8 years (before Anticon and Def Jux).

On second thought, this should really be called "Stretch & Bobbito" saved my life...

[heBAY]

I'll start by saying the Company Flow Funcrusher EP was probably the first record of this kind that I picked up. I went downstairs to Fat Beats on a Saturday afternoon and the shit was sitting on the floor with a paper sign leaning on it with huge sharpie writing like "INCREDIBLY DOPE UNDERGROUND SHIT"...I picked it up and immediately noticed that it was clear vinyl (it was a double vinyl EP packed in a white glossy sleeve...only had the coflow goblin on the silver label). At that point, I've never seen anything like that...so I took a chance. Didn't grab me the first time I heard it...it wasn't "too weird" or "spacey"...just didn't hit me for some reason. After hearing someone cut up "Vital Nerve"...I realized I had that record and listened to it again and boom (I had to have it walkman ready that night).

I then picked up the Non Phixion Legacy 12" ...immediately fucked my head up...then the Arsonists Session 12"...and the Juggaknots Clear Blue Skies EP. I missed the Cenobites the first time around...had to wait for the repress on Fondle Em.

I befriended this cat named Ryan at Fat Beats (who now owns Lush Life) and he became my connect for whatever fresh new shit that dropped...plus he could ID records I'd describe to him from listening to Stretch & Bob.

Name dropping time...some of my favorites that should be stamped in history:

-EVERYTHING on Fondle Em Records before the Scienz of Life 12" (that was decent...but the shit before was ridiculous)...includes the Cenobites, Juggaknots, Arsonists, Siah & Yeshua, Cage's first 12", Lord Sear's 12" (ay yo), MF Doom...shit I think that's it...in order of release too?)

-Company Flow (Official Records)

-Natural Elements/Mr. Voodoo/L-Swift (before Dolo Recs.)

-Godfather Don

-Non Phixion (before they kicked out Serch and became "thug revolutionaries"...before Ill Bill bit Redman's whole stee)

-Dr. Octagon

-Sir Menelik/Scaramanga (one of the first on Rawkus)

-Hi-Tech (Mass Vinyl...the first time I heard J-Treads)

-J-Live (the Rawshack days)

-East Flatbush Project "Tried By 12" (probably one of the most famous/used underground beats in history...I heard this 12" sold ridiculous amounts)

-25 To Life "LA, LA" (had the original white label promo where they rhymed over the Dogg Pound beat...then Dolo picked it up and dropped it with the Marley Marl and Stretch Armstrong remixes)

...yeah.

[readytoignite]

i've only dabbled with us underground hip-hop but at the time i was definitely onto the first two del albums plus anything related to dr. octagon before kool keith jumped the shark (q-bert mix tapes, cenobites et al) - the latter because i was so into the whole mo wax scene at the time. to be honest the company flow reissue and lyricist lounge thing bored me to tears at the time so that was pretty much it for me on that tip. handily i'm in the middle of scrubbing my collection a little bit so get a chance to see if i really missed the boat on it.

speaking of which i'm annoyed in retrospect for having been in nyc at the time and completely missing the boat on ken sport mixtapes

[heBAY]

Yeaah Ken Sport definitely was a big thing at Footwork...those tapes would sell out quick. I actually never copped any of them...heard most of them chillin' in the store and met Ken a few times when he'd come in and drop off tapes.

I forgot to mention the KMD Black Bastards rerelease in my Fondle Em spiel...not really an original Fondle Em product...but still...came out during the label's peak.

[xcoldricex]

hahahaha dr. octagon was the shit. i saw him once. he did a freestyle.... but he was just couting to one hundred. kool keith is fucking hilarious. kmd was dope too. peach fuzz, what a niggy know...

shit i knew someone connected to lush life... he sent me an album of brazilian grooves or something. i forget how/why i got that cd, but it was pretty fucking ill.

royal flush!

OEKx5GAReI0

[landho]

heBAY, do you remember the beef between El-P and Sole? I remember thinking that Sole won the lyrical battle with "Dear Elpee" but got totally humiliated with El-P's "Linda Trip."

It's funny--I don't know what I was looking for, really (and I felt that I must have been looking for something), but I listened to hip-hop obsessively in the mid- to late 90s (as I mentioned earlier when I unwittingly hijacked your QB thread). I listened to Illadelph Halflife at Blockbuster Music (RIP) and I felt that I had to follow it, whatever it was, to its end. I remember trying to scramble to find certain CDs, most of which which I would learn from hhi.com (hiphopinfinity).

My friend ended up turning me on to Anticon. I was fascinated by the idea that these white guys would meet on the Internet and then, fueled by their collective love of hip-hop, just pick up and move out west to work together. Back then, in the late 90s, it seemed unfathomable to me. (Maybe that just shows how naive I was.) Funnily, though, that was the beginning of the end of hip-hop for me. I was listening to Buck 65, Sixtoo, Atmosphere, Sole, Deep Puddle Dynamics, et al., in addition to Company Flow, Black Star, et al.--stuff that was found on Soundbombing and Lyricist Lounge. After I listened to some Controller7 remixes of a couple of DPD songs ("Rainmen" and "The Candle"), I felt a sense of deep dissatisfaction. Not because the music wasn't good--quite the opposite. The music was anazing. But I pretty much found what I had been looking for when I started listening to hip-hop, in those songs and "Thieves in the Night," "Bottle of Humans," "June 26 1998," etc. I continued listening to avant-garde hip-hop, picking up cLOUDDEAD releases, trying to follow Company Flow as they started up Def Jux, listening to Aesop Rock, etc., but I really wasn't in it. I was at an Atmosphere show (my third one) and they were totally fucked up--completely drunk and barely able to perform. It was a joke. I was near the stage, and right in front of me this drunk guy and this girl begin squabbling. He was being a dick and trying to push his way to the stage, and she took offense. They began pushing and shoving and then suddenly he took a big swig from his beer and spewed the contents of his mouth into her face. She had to be restrained by this guy next to her, presumably an acquaintance. The drunk dude just started yelling out, "Bitch! Bitch! Bitch!" I knew then that that was probably it for me.

[readytoignite]

oh man, forgot about the east flatbush project - heard that through idm connex. just passed up the 2x12 pack this weekend for like $6 in favor of some random japanese hip-hop comp from the mid 90s, got too much stuff in my life.

happily i got the cenobites re out of a dollar bin at other music, almost passed it up cos of the generic sleeve - obviously didn't realize that's how it came!

[heBAY]

hahahaha dr. octagon was the shit. i saw him once. he did a freestyle.... but he was just couting to one hundred. kool keith is fucking hilarious. kmd was dope too. peach fuzz, what a niggy know...

shit i knew someone connected to lush life... he sent me an album of brazilian grooves or something. i forget how/why i got that cd, but it was pretty fucking ill.

royal flush!

I loved that Royal Flush joint...though it doesn't really fall into the category...I think they were on some half-major label shit.

But that joint and "Movin' On Ya Weak Production" were some hard to find 12"'s when they were actually recent (I think Blunt Recordings FINALLY dropped a Worldwide 12" like ayear after all the mixtapes had played the shit out the song).

[readytoignite]

ps not a huge cloudead fan but new kingdom.... hotcha

[notesee]

Great thread. During this period of time I was obsessed with hip hop. I have a few Fondle Em promo posters hanging in my room, for the Black Bastards and Doomsday albums. Sandbox was my shit, I used to spend so much money on that site. Have a ton of promo posters and tees from buying records through them.

Was very tempted to sell them when I was short on loot, but hung around to them. You listed most of the acts I was going to name myself, I'll have to go through my old collection and see what else I have. I really enjoyed the Ill Bill early demos release, with his material from '91 - '94. I really wish Goretex would have put out his own early demos release, I know he has older records from that era but he is too fucking lazy to dig them up.

Juggaknots, damn ... Clear Blue Skies was my shit. Especially the track Trouble Man.

How about some early Masta Ace? Love the album Sittin on Chrome. Juice is also an MC I think should be mentioned here. Although he's always had a problem putting together a good full length, his song "Sincerely" will always be classic in my book. What else ... oh yeah, some Poor Righteous Teachers is always a good look. Edo G & the Bulldogs dropped some ill shit, Life of a Kid in the Ghetto is a great record.

I was a fan of DJ Eclipse's Halftime Show on WNYU, have a decent amount of taped shows. Even won a 2 year subscription to Elemental Magazine through them which was cool.

Damn, I gotta go through my collection the next time I'm around my parents place.

[heBAY]

heBAY, do you remember the beef between El-P and Sole? I remember thinking that Sole won the lyrical battle with "Dear Elpee" but got totally humiliated with El-P's "Linda Trip."

It's funny--I don't know what I was looking for, really (and I felt that I must have been looking for something), but I listened to hip-hop obsessively in the mid- to late 90s (as I mentioned earlier when I unwittingly hijacked your QB thread). I listened to Illadelph Halflife at Blockbuster Music (RIP) and I felt that I had to follow it, whatever it was, to its end. I remember trying to scramble to find certain CDs, most of which which I would learn from hhi.com (hiphopinfinity).

My friend ended up turning me on to Anticon. I was fascinated by the idea that these white guys would meet on the Internet and then, fueled by their collective love of hip-hop, just pick up and move out west to work together. Back then, in the late 90s, it seemed unfathomable to me. (Maybe that just shows how naive I was.) Funnily, though, that was the beginning of the end of hip-hop for me. I was listening to Buck 65, Sixtoo, Atmosphere, Sole, Deep Puddle Dynamics, et al., in addition to Company Flow, Black Star, et al.--stuff that was found on Soundbombing and Lyricist Lounge. After I listened to some Controller7 remixes of a couple of DPD songs ("Rainmen" and "The Candle"), I felt a sense of deep dissatisfaction. Not because the music wasn't good--quite the opposite. The music was anazing. But I pretty much found what I had been looking for when I started listening to hip-hop, in those songs and "Thieves in the Night," "Bottle of Humans," "June 26 1998," etc. I continued listening to avant-garde hip-hop, picking up cLOUDDEAD releases, trying to follow Company Flow as they started up Def Jux, listening to Aesop Rock, etc., but I really wasn't in it. I was at an Atmosphere show (my third one) and they were totally fucked up--completely drunk and barely able to perform. It was a joke. I was near the stage, and right in front of me this drunk guy and this girl begin squabbling. He was being a dick and trying to push his way to the stage, and she took offense. They began pushing and shoving and then suddenly he took a big swig from his beer and spewed the contents of his mouth into her face. She had to be restrained by this guy next to her, presumably an acquaintance. The drunk dude just started yelling out, "Bitch! Bitch! Bitch!" I knew then that that was probably it for me.

Thing is...I was talking about stuff that preceded Anticon and Aesop Rock Def Jux...I really don't fuck with none of that at all. I hated most of those kids...I remember when Sole was pushing his first shit called the Live Poets. "Dear El-P" was trash IMO. I couldn't stand his so-called rhyme style...his accent and "virginal whiteboy trying to be down" delivery ate balls big time...not only that, but his picture surfacing showing who he really helped kill him...we were all dyin' (might be a bit ignorant/close minded...but that's real NYC Hip Hop attitude for you, when you come out your neck to us). "Dear El-P" wasn't taken as just a diss song to another ONE guy, but more of this super suburban attack on an inner city artform/movement that kids like that (whether from Maine or Rhode Island) DID not comprehend a bit.

Plus that kid Pedestrian was an AOL chat room tape trader who would somehow score Atoms Family bootlegs and spread them to kids in Hawaii for rare Project Blowed material...that's where Anticon got all of their "swagger" from...all of the rapid fire ("choppping") shit they did was from Freestyle Fellowship and shit like CVE. It was funny for us to see them all move to Cali.

Anticon is probably prime example of what went wrong with indie hip hop...although Dose and Why? were cool...they just kinda stuck to their own shit...be it weird and "white bread" (see my starting post)...but at least they were admittedly some beatnick rap and not coming in on some "smarter than thou" shit just cause they didn't speak slang or whatever.

The internet./AOL explosion killed underground hip hop's integrity.

[heBAY]

Great thread. During this period of time I was obsessed with hip hop. I have a few Fondle Em promo posters hanging in my room, for the Black Bastards and Doomsday albums. Sandbox was my shit, I used to spend so much money on that site. Have a ton of promo posters and tees from buying records through them.

Was very tempted to sell them when I was short on loot, but hung around to them. You listed most of the acts I was going to name myself, I'll have to go through my old collection and see what else I have. I really enjoyed the Ill Bill early demos release, with his material from '91 - '94. I really wish Goretex would have put out his own early demos release, I know he has older records from that era but he is too fucking lazy to dig them up.

Juggaknots, damn ... Clear Blue Skies was my shit. Especially the track Trouble Man.

How about some early Masta Ace? Love the album Sittin on Chrome. Juice is also an MC I think should be mentioned here. Although he's always had a problem putting together a good full length, his song "Sincerely" will always be classic in my book. What else ... oh yeah, some Poor Righteous Teachers is always a good look. Edo G & the Bulldogs dropped some ill shit, Life of a Kid in the Ghetto is a great record.

Haha...here's a rarity from my crates...Paula Perry's "Paula's Jam" 12". She's from the INC (Masta Ase's)...that shit was crazy when it dropped...Hot 97 DJ's even played it (I think Evil Dee was still on at the time...and Flex even played it). Shit...Flex even played "Vital Nerve" and the Arsonists' "Seed"...that shit was nuts.

I thought PRT was on Profile...??? And Masta Ase was on Delicious Vinyl (which was pretty much a major much like Cold Chillin...).

I know ED OG had some indie releases after his "Gotta Have It" days...I had one of them.

I had a Fondle Em Farm shirt...it was a flip of the Pepperidge Farm logo...don't know what happened. I also had the first CoFlow tee...grey with I think the goblin on the front.

[heBAY]

Uhm...is it me, or does the Juggz Clear Blue Skies CD reissue have a shortened version of the "Circle Pt. II"...no 3rd verse...what the hell is going on?

Siah & Yeshua's EP is being put out again too. Hmmm.

[landho]

Thing is...I was talking about stuff that preceded Anticon and Aesop Rock Def Jux...I really don't fuck with none of that at all. I hated most of those kids...I remember when Sole was pushing his first shit called the Live Poets. "Dear El-P" was trash IMO. I couldn't stand his so-called rhyme style...his accent and "virginal whiteboy trying to be down" delivery ate balls big time...not only that, but his picture surfacing showing who he really helped kill him...we were all dyin' (might be a bit ignorant/close minded...but that's real NYC Hip Hop attitude for you, when you come out your neck to us). "Dear El-P" wasn't taken as just a diss song to another ONE guy, but more of this super suburban attack on an inner city artform/movement that kids like that (whether from Maine or Rhode Island) DID not comprehend a bit.

Plus that kid Pedestrian was an AOL chat room tape trader who would somehow score Atoms Family bootlegs and spread them to kids in Hawaii for rare Project Blowed material...that's where Anticon got all of their "swagger" from...all of the rapid fire ("choppping") shit they did was from Freestyle Fellowship and shit like CVE. It was funny for us to see them all move to Cali.

Anticon is probably prime example of what went wrong with indie hip hop...although Dose and Why? were cool...they just kinda stuck to their own shit...be it weird and "white bread" (see my starting post)...but at least they were admittedly some beatnick rap and not coming in on some "smarter than thou" shit just cause they didn't speak slang or whatever.

The internet./AOL explosion killed underground hip hop's integrity.

It's true--I remember thinking when I saw Sole's picture, "What? And what's up with his hair?"

But I have to disagree with your statement that the Internet killed underground hip-hop's integrity. Maybe from a purist's standpoint, which is where you seem to be coming from, but to me, it represented a democratization of intelligent hip-hop. People who had ideas about hip-hop but could never explore them suddenly found a medium in which to explore those ideas. And kids like me, living in Texas who relied on The Source and 97.9 KBXX, had no other way of being exposed to any of this.

[heBAY]

It's true--I remember thinking when I saw Sole's picture, "What? And what's up with his hair?"

But I have to disagree with your statement that the Internet killed underground hip-hop's integrity. Maybe from a purist's standpoint, which is where you seem to be coming from, but to me, it represented a democratization of intelligent hip-hop. People who had ideas about hip-hop but could never explore them suddenly found a medium in which to explore those ideas. And kids like me, living in Texas who relied on The Source and 97.9 KBXX, had no other way of being exposed to any of this.

Nah it's a good argument...and you have a valid point which I actually DO agree with as far as opening up avenues for all types of music. You're right though, I am speaking from a NYC perspective...a purist by nature since we were/are spoiled in many (obvious) aspects.

I'm actually FOR the internet being the communicative force that it is...without it, I would not have known about half the shit I take for granted these days. I just think (1.) there WAS and always has been some form of "intelligent hip hop" coming out...the envelope-pushing/conceptualizing intelligent stuff you speak of was definitely more prevalent on the indie labels at that time...but we had plenty of fresh shit like that already (from both coasts). Not to say that mid-America kids (who either did not have the resources or money or location to put out records) could not make and share their music...but (2.) because the door was so wide open...there was this influx of kids who didn't need to pay any dues (traditionally) coming out...doesn't make for a very edgy/special movement anymore (every young and happening "scene" has this happen).

You had these suburban AOL kids who came in on some semi-racist/pseudo-groundbreaking shit like "hey fuck you city kids...we can do this too...especially cause we're totally smarter than you and can beat you at Counter Strike (lies)...listen to our huge words and songs about off-kilter topics and references to Russian philsophy." It's fine...ther'e a place for it...but I just don't vibe with it personally. To me, the shit happened again with Myspace...kids were able to put their page and music up and package their shit just like the talent. For any serious producers, it sorta made us jaded since you had these kids flooding the platform with Fruity Loops beats using Neptunes and Just Blaze drum kits and sampling MP3's.

I'm just a bitter old soul...

and the internet made the baby grow up really really fast.

[arem]

Yeah, I loved the underground stuff at the time, but I hate all that Anticon "Hip-Hop for white kids who don't actually know any black people" stuff with a passion. I agree that that stuff (plus the glut of terrible singles that flooded the market after Rawkus took off) ruined the underground scene. heBAY mentioned a lot of good stuff, here are some others worth hearing.

L The Head Toucha - Too Complex

Chris Lowe - Uncut Action

Tragedy - Funk Mode

Eclipse - World Premiere

Blackalicious - Swan Lake/Lyric Fathom

Natural Resource - Negro League Baseball/Bum Deal

J-Live - Braggin Writes

Rass Kass - Soul On Ice (remix)

Latyrx - Say That

Mountain Brothers - Paperchase

Tony Bones & Mr. Live - Splashin' Over Monica

Rasco - Unassisted

Shadez Of Brooklyn - Change

I could go on for days...

[heBAY]

Yeah, I loved the underground stuff at the time, but I hate all that Anticon "Hip-Hop for white kids who don't actually know any black people" stuff with a passion. I agree that that stuff (plus the glut of terrible singles that flooded the market after Rawkus took off) ruined the underground scene. heBAY mentioned a lot of good stuff, here are some others worth hearing.

L The Head Toucha - Too Complex

Chris Lowe - Uncut Action

Tragedy - Funk Mode

Eclipse - World Premiere

Blackalicious - Swan Lake/Lyric Fathom

Natural Resource - Negro League Baseball/Bum Deal

J-Live - Braggin Writes

Rass Kass - Soul On Ice (remix)

Latyrx - Say That

Mountain Brothers - Paperchase

Tony Bones & Mr. Live - Splashin' Over Monica

Rasco - Unassisted

Shadez Of Brooklyn - Change

I could go on for days...

Woooh...Shadez Of Brooklyn...all of those Beatminerz/Tape Kingz jawns were crazy...Finsta Bundy?

Haha I forgot about Mr Live...funny shit I was just reading an interview with him yesterday on some blog site...that was one of the first Fondle Em releases!

Yeah Latyrx/Solesides had shit good for the Cali scene. That album was very well put together...that and Blackalicious' Melodica.

Remember Gauge the Mental Murderrah? That was my shit...and it took me forever to find out what song that was after hearing Stretch play it over and over again. "Cranium" was the single...then he had a remix with the Cella Dwellas which was almost as fresh.

Mr. Complex "Visualize" and his first single (I forget the name) were good money too. He was the first cat I had come thru to my lab and freestyle for a mixtape. J-Live being the 2nd...he lived on the border of Harlem and the Upper East.

I sold that Nat. Resource "Negro League" 12" for CRAZY paper a few years ago. Wow.

[doctorgnar]

Man, I tried but I can't read all this.

How about:

Brooklyn Academy, Skeme Team, Word A' Mouth, Pumpkinhead, etc.

[arem]

Gauge sounds familiar, but I don't know it off the top of my head. I'm kind of surprised you could sell that Natural Resources for much dough because it was repressed a couple of times. I got good money for my doubles of the OG Funcrusher EP and Siah and Yeshua though. The bottom has really dropped out of the market for that stuff now, MP3 killed it all dead.

[heBAY]

Another thing...at one point, there were some nice female MC's in the underground...and I'm NOT talkin about Apani B Fly. More like Essence (Natural Elements), Heroine (Juggaknotz/Indelible Mc's and this three girl group with MFW and some other chick...forget the name), and What? What? (from Nat Resource...who is now Jean Grae).

Speaking of Essence...after Natural Elements got on Dolo, she reappeared on a 12" from Ekim of the UMC's...that was an ill joint.

What? What? was funny too. I remember seeing the transformation into Jean Grae...from the sillier character she was in Natural Resource...then she got down with Pumpkinhead and Bad Seed which was her more "street" side...saw her rock with them at the Wetlands with a tatt on her neck and shit was all "put the blade to your chin nigga." I guess she's grown up a bit since then...but it was kinda bugged to hear the girl from "Negro League" go off like that.

[heBAY]

Man, I tried but I can't read all this.

How about:

Brooklyn Academy, Skeme Team, Word A' Mouth, Pumpkinhead, etc.

Yeah I bolded the names cause I knew this would be long-winded trips down memory lane.

Gauge sounds familiar, but I don't know it off the top of my head. I'm kind of surprised you could sell that Natural Resources for much dough because it was repressed a couple of times. I got good money for my doubles of the OG Funcrusher EP and Siah and Yeshua though. The bottom has really dropped out of the market for that stuff now, MP3 killed it all dead.

Yeah I think it was between pressings...I remember getting it the first time it came out...then a 2nd batch of doubles when their video had come out (i think...but it was on the same label...nothing new). I sold the Siah & Yeshua, Cenobites, Juggz, Funcrusher EP, Infokill 12", even Lord Sear for crazy dough...back in like 2000-2001...killed 'em til '03.

[soundbomber]

The early 90's was the best era for Hip Hop hands down, back to back classics!

JP producers × American emcees is where it's currently at.

[heBAY]

Krushin it? Dan Nakamura too?

[soundbomber]

As far as the Automator goes, I prefer Shadow, RJ, Spinna, MEZ, Herbaliser for NT before him.

[heBAY]

Yeah...I prefer Shadow as well..just that you mentioned Japanese producers.

[soundbomber]

Word, by JP producers I meant heads like Nujabes, Tonk, Krush, Mitsu, Hazu, Himuki, Nomak and labels like Milk Dipper, Jazzy Sport, Hydeout, Kemuri Productions.

Dan is native to SF, he doesn't count.

[landho]

Honda, anyone?

[heBAY]

He would count as far as being a producer from Japan...but he was signed to Relativety Records (same label as the Beatnuts, Common, and MOP at the time).

[thomparetta]

Doseone and Boombip - Circle

or is this too anticon white boy suburban thesaurus diving for you? it's at least more genuine than atmosphere

[landho]

Doseone and Boombip - Circle

or is this too anticon white boy suburban thesaurus diving for you? it's at least more genuine than atmosphere

I always thought that Atmosphere was super hit or miss; like some of their songs are unbelievably good, but then just as many (if not more) were on the shittier side of mediocre.

I always thought that Slug was an incredible emcee with great talent but just couldn't establish himself consistently throughout the course of an entire album. (The same criticism, I suppose, could be leveled at Method Man.) The first Atmosphere show I ever went to was incredible; they covered "Time for the Season" by The Zombies and then went into a long freestyle on topics randomly supplied by the audience. (The freestyle involved [1] chewing gum, [2] bottle caps, [3] crack whores, and [4] Texas, IIRC.) It was really impressive.

The next two Atmosphere shows were garbage, and I gave up on them soon after.

I also found myself wanting to listen to Atmosphere songs rather than Atmosphere albums....

Part of the thing is, and this is what I think heBAY was getting at, is that I am kind of on the fence with regard to the legitimacy of hip-hop. I'm obviously not a purist, having grown up in a working-class part of Texas, but at the same time I'm grateful for hip-hop being diffused across the Internet so that I (and people like me) could really get into it. That said, I always felt a certain disconnect at Atmosphere and Sage Francis shows, given that a lot of those in attendance were suburban backpackers. It's funny; I ended up being kind of suspicious of people like me who came into hip-hop obliquely. Part of it I guess was because I wasn't white and well-off or black and listened to mixtapes but somewhere in between.