fake big E 501s?

[Duconos los Grecos]

Hi. This thread is a call to those knowledgeable in the field of vintage big E 501's ! Please check out the pics in this eBay listing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320219035384&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

The seller claims these are vintage, and authentic. A call to 1 800 Levi USA has gotten a positive response from the rep, saying he thought these are authentic.

In my opinion, these are current, not vintage, Thai-made fakes.

Evidence:

_phony-looking LEVI'S red tab, too short for vintage, letters too boxy, almost even for LVC

_the mix of 1.no rivets under back pockets; 2.selvage in change pocket; 3.chainstitching over the selvage in said change pocket. In less phony-looking jeans, I guess these could coexist if the jeans were made at the transition period of 1964-1967.

_paper tag with tear-off, too centered for the era.

_very phony-looking inner care tag with WPL

_fabric extensions under top of back pocket corners, typical of Thai fakes

I need an opinion from people who have experienced actual vintage Levi's, and who can give a definitive opinion on the subject. THANKS!!!

P.S. The denim looks like it may have been sourced at the purveyors to LVC. The question is really: Are these vintage big E's? Is there any chance they could be real?

[Paul T]

These are definitely not original 60s Levi's, they don't look anything like them (denim for one thing looks different). And they are definitely not recent LVC. The main indicator is the legend on the pocket linings, which is typical of fakes.

I think they're fakes, but there are two reasons I'm not absolutely certain. One reason is that my head hurts this morning - the other is that these share some similarities with the pre-LVC 501 reissues, which I think had a similar care tag. it's now some years since I saw the original Capital E reissues, and I can't remember all the details. But if you search here for them and find pix, post them here and I;ll take another look.

Edit: my head still hurts, but I blew up the first interesting photo, of the pocket lining. I think it says "sewed with are strongest cotton thread" and has invented a new type of denim called "fullgo". Mr Strauss would never have made that kind of spelling mistake, whether first time around, or for the Capital E reissue. Mr Thai often does, though. Get your mate to email me and I'll write him a letter confirming they're fake. Incidentally, most if not all of your other points, in differentiating this from an original 60s jean, are correct. The leather-look patch looks wrong, the selvage, pockets etc etc etc.

Here is the incriminating evidence, Dr Watson:

[Spastic_Koala]

Yeah, I noticed the spelling mistake too. It seems unlikely that a non-fake would have that type of mistake.

[Duconos los Grecos]

Ha ha!!! i didn't even bother to check the printing on the pocket: I always assumed they would photocopy the writing & logo- not recreate it (and personalize it). How hard is it to double-check your spelling; or, better still, not trust the task to a 4 year-old kid??!??

In my experience, the back pocket opening corners are enough to blow the whistle on Thai fakes. Although the principle is similar (apparently) to the construction on original and LVC big E's, the Thais always leave more fabric protruding down, which you can really see on faded jeans. You can see the extra fabric evidenced in the white circle below. (sorry for the crappy blow-out)

Paul, thanks so much for your time and help.

[datasupa]

1873 + 110 = 1983, earliest possible year of manufacture.

they could not possibly be real vintage big E.

plus there's about a billion other obvious fake details as pointed out by others and even you yourself.

quit straining your brain already.

[Duconos los Grecos]

These are definitely not original 60s Levi's, they don't look anything like them (denim for one thing looks different). And they are definitely not recent LVC. The main indicator is the legend on the pocket linings, which is typical of fakes.

Paul, Thanks so much for your kind help.

Spastic_Koala, thanks as well.

datasupa, if your attitude in the streets is the same as it is here, you must have one beat-up head...

[Paul T]

.

they could not possibly be real vintage big E.

plus there's about a billion other obvious fake details as pointed out by others and even you yourself.

quit straining your brain already.

That legend (correctly spelt) including the "over 110 years" line, was used on early Levi's 501 reissues - which are actually valued by some collectors, as they were produced in the Valencia St factory.

[Spastic_Koala]

I don't pretend to know much about this stuff, but do typically 501xx say "501xx" on the leather tag, or do they only say "501?" These just say "501" but they're being advertised as 501xx.

[Paul T]

I don't pretend to know much about this stuff, but do typically 501xx say "501xx" on the leather tag, or do they only say "501?" These just say "501" but they're being advertised as 501xx.

Most early jeans say 501XX; the XX disappears circa 1966, and is only reintroduced on the non-selvage jeans.

[Spastic_Koala]

So I guess that would be another indication that these are fakes?

[Bijan]

The short rise is always a dead giveaway, too.

[wywh]

Ha ha!!! i didn't even bother to check the printing on the pocket: I always assumed they would photocopy the writing & logo- not recreate it (and personalize it). How hard is it to double-check your spelling; or, better still, not trust the task to a 4 year-old kid??!??

Yes Grecos. I saw a lot of Thai fakes back in my country (Malaysia) before and once I saw the jeans on the eBay link, I can easily tells it is a fake! As you said I don't have to check the spelling. Fakes jeans never fit to my body like my current '47 LVC and fakes are worthless for me.

Regards,