Discussion Thread 6/16: The Fit Bias

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wow this is getting to be a pretty heavy discussion...not really in the frame of mind to read every single post right now. But if I had to sum up my thoughts, basically just wear what you feel comfortable in, as long as it looks good on you and suits your personality/body/overall look, no need to get too hung up about whether something fits 100%. If something has imperfections such as a shirt not clinging exactly to your body or pants being a little loose, that's OK. I think that's the point i was trying to make at the beginning of this the whole time...after all it's just clothes, shouldn't be something that requires too much analysis. I think i made my original point about going against traditional notions/strict standards of 'ideal' fit in some thread a few days ago is because after comments such as Tiranis', I felt like sometimes people on here can get a bit nitpicky in their criticisms, when the reality is nothing has to be, and nothing is, perfect. Often times people who seem to me to be too precise in their silhouette, i personally don't appreciate that style as much because it seems too deliberate. You can never get too precise with ready to wear anyway...

[Tiranis]

I think i made my original point about going against traditional notions/strict standards of 'ideal' fit in some thread a few days ago is because after comments such as Tiranis', I felt like sometimes people on here can get a bit nitpicky in their criticisms, when the reality is nothing has to be, and nothing is, perfect. Often times people who seem to me to be too precise in their silhouette, i personally don't appreciate that style as much because it seems too deliberate.

Well, I was never really commenting on how your clothes 'fit' anyway, rather how they look on you and that they don't seem to work for you... and in any case, I enjoy your new pics, compared to when you used to wear Diors and stuff. And I can totally relate to not buying stuff for perfect silhouette, I do it myself...

[spinmyworld]

hm, I haven't really read the discussion, but my opinion about it is that fit always comes first. If I see someone with a beautiful piece, but with a bad bad bad fit, all I think of is how stupid is this person? he/she is ruining the piece. but I think some cases are fine, for example.. I just bought a leather I truely love, and got it at such a great deal (about 70% off) and my only issue with it is that the arms are maybe ~ 1 cm too long. no big deal, really.. since everything else is perfect imo.

so I think in some cases, the fit doesn't have to be perfect. very good is okay if it's a very beautiful piece, rather than a perfect fitting ugly piece.

[goldengloves]

spin- The whole discussion though, is, 'What is fit'.

Most people would think it means something conforming to one's body type. Other's will say it is transforming one's body through lines, cuts, and drapes to make things appear differently.

For instance, if you have a small torso, one would recommend wearing a v-neck shirt to accentuate the smaller midsection. Another examples would be having short legs, you wear verticle lined pants to give the elusion of longer legs. The list goes on...But does this always hold true? What is true, is that certain forms of fit and cuts make certain body types look differently but what isn't true is the fact this will not always conform to another person's view on fit.

Messing around with silhouettes is something designers and wearers have been doing for quite some time. And because there is no universal view on fit, there is no wrong or right way of doing things.

The point, like FTB is trying to say; Is go for what fits your own viewpoints on fit. For certain people, this may run the whole gamet, some days wearing slim jeans and a wider fit top and the next wearing looser trousers with a tucked in slim top. Neither of these examples are wrong but what they are, are 2 different forms of fit.

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I agree. It's all about how it's done.

[superBobo]

Clothing, in my opinion, should flatter the eye of the Other before flattering the body of the Wearer. Clothing is a visual cue before it is an armor- and choosing items that fit a certain way is still, at the heart of it all, an exercise in choosing something that will strike the Other in a certain way. It seems very disingenous to me to believe that we are simply after the perfect fit for our own enjoyment- we are after the perfect fit, whatever that may mean to us personally, because there is an image in our heads of

ourselves that we have an undying need to make real.

Otherwise, we'd all be draped in swathes of fabric and eating lard out of cans, right?

This is pretty much how I see it, but I think its rather more important to flatter the own eye, or mind, rather than the Others since its very hard to predict how others will virew you.

I have a tendency to wear/buy stuff that I know isnt the most flattering for my body, and in that sense its not the perfect fit. I , for example,buy and wear wide and anti-fit pants, when I know some slimmer, well cut jeans would probably flatter the eye of the other more (by flattering my body). But since I like what the clothes signify, and how they work in context with other pieces I wear them non the less.

I do work pretty much proportions though, so even if a piece fits weird, it has to work with the rest and the silhouette ..

[homi29]

very thought-proving and interesting discussion

i think everything that has been said so far is right in its own sense, but what i wanted to mention was the idea of fit being in ideals..

when we see clothing displayed in magazines or runways, keep in mind the models have been carefully selected, and the clothing carefully tailored. When it comes to the average person buying pieces and clothing, it becomes not a pursuit of this "ideal of the perfect fit" but a journey through which we discover what works best on our body, and suits our own image that we present to the outside world. So aside from just finding clothes that hug your body well, we look for ways to wear our clothes that represent our personalities and interests.

[wEstSidE]

I agree. It's all about how it's done.

pretty tone??

[mellowbonsai]

I'll quickly put in my two cents on this one:

i think if there is a Supertalk bias, it comes chiefly from the way raw/selvedge denims fit people. Skull, APC, Nudie, Samurai and other dry/raw/selvedge denims are very popular here, and those denims fit people a very certain way since they have a more skinny cut (relative to all jeans) . i believe the outfit is subsequently built according to the fit of the jeans.

You can have a sort of consonance with the jeans and throw on an AA shirt, or put in a little dissonance with the a jeans and wear something like Mis' latest WAYWT (flannel). Both can yield a good fit, though working against the fit of the jeans is harder.

So you have that factor pushing itself outward, and you have other factors pushing inward. Those i would guess are the lookbooks/runways of labels like Dior, April 77, Nom de Guerre, Comme des Garcons, etc. We also have our WAYWT and often work toward the fits of people who are the most consistently praised, like Haptronic.

[chub rock]

fuck fit. odder sizes are the ones that always turn up on sale. i used to buy tones of dior shit in size L, XL for super cheap 'cause everyone went for the traditional smaller/tighter fitting sizes....

i dont fuss much over fit, cause i change my mind all the fucking time. everyday im like i wish this was a bit bigger, and then two days later im like, no wait, fuck that....its better like this....

and while i dont find the whole loose thread, yoji flawwed fit concept all the impressive i tend to lean more towards that aesthetic. its like models, you want to come across kind of unconventionally attractive and neat.

[broneck]

When it comes to the average person buying pieces and clothing, it becomes not a pursuit of this "ideal of the perfect fit" but a journey through which we discover what works best on our body, and suits our own image that we present to the outside world.

I like this, and would like to weigh in on this whole debate with a personal example, shopping with my good friend Yuljo. After purchasing that helmut lang jacket (which doesn't "fit" me in the classic sense of the word, but hangs loose and drapes off me substantially), I stumbled on a Neil Barret coat that was cut to my proportions impeccably. Probably the best fitting garment I'd ever put on...it was one of those pieces you feel was made for you. In compairson to the Lang it is definitely a slim, rigid and razor sharp piece. The lines are much stronger, cleaner, and it was cut with much sharper edges. Yuljo hated it. I didn't understand why, so I enquired. Weren't the details perfect? yes, they were. The military influence? works well with the fit of the garment? yes, it did. cut perfectly to my body? definitely it was. so what the hell jon, why don't you like it?

Jon conveyed that it simply didn't fit me, not in any aesthetic sense of the word, as there was simply no arguing that it fit perfectly. But it didn't fit me as Jon knows me. The clean, military lines of the garment clashed with my lifestyle and personality. The garment screamed maturity beyond my years, military organization, a grown up lifestyle (despite being a young looking garment), and Jon knows me as being/having none of these things. In 5 years, after I put my life back together and slow down, I cold wear that Neil Barrett coat. Right now? Stick to the Helmut Lang that, very much like the wearer, just goes with the flow.

I was pretty impressed by his logic, and thought that the example belonged here...I also find it interesting that this particular example doesn't necessarily debate style vs. fashion, fit vs. design, or hype vs. wearability, but rather fit vs. fit.

Thoughts?