HARDCORE SAVED MY LIFE

[Guest binaural]

Quoted for fucking truth.

Anyone hear listen to Hail Mary? I've been getting their 7"'s lately...some great art by Sam McPheeters and an especially crazy etching on one side of a 7" by Neil Burke. That good ole ugly and ripping 90's ABC-style shit from NY (well actually Albany). Great writing.

YES, the whole ABC NO RIO scene then, a LOT of great bands. in general, the whole Gravity/Gern Blandsten/Ebullition/Vermiform/Heartattack bands have stood the test of time. Econochrist, Los Crudos, Honeywell, Iconoclast, Man is the Bastard, Native Nod, etc. anyone remember Sleeping Body? amazing band. one 7" on Vermin Scum and it KILLS.

and then there was the whole Dischord scene in the 90s. lot of great shit, some not so great. not really hardcore, but Hoover, Fugazi (given), Nation of Ulysses, Circus Lupus, Lungfish, Crownhate Ruin, the Warmers... i can take or leave the Make Up, though i really dug them then.

i wanna check out Hail Mary. sounds great.

[Darkeside]

Converge (who at the time were considered to be the worst hardcore band in Mass. that totally changed, but i still have the first demo and 7" and they sounded like a bad Biohazard knockoff)

any chance of an upload of this? Would be very interested in hearing Converge sound like Biohazard.

This thread has picked up a little again.

Absolution doesn't click for me, I'm pretty indifferent to them sorry.

Been listening to Endeavour quite a bit lately.

Shows wise:

Was going to Annihilation Time but that got pulled,

Saw Cursed a week or so before, wasn't too impressed but local band Wraith did the whole tour pretty much, and (for HeBAY's attention) have been covering Serve and Protect by Citizens Arrest.

New to myspace, but having been around for a few years now and some what a precursor to Wraith is The Keep - one of my favourite UK bands at the moment. For what it's worth, there was a Born Against cover on their demo.

[sean_]

i saw the victims/coliseum show last night

trash talk didnt get into canada which was kinda lame. but i'm used to it by now.

victims are fucking wild, easily best set of the night.

coliseum are boring.

[heBAY]

YES, the whole ABC NO RIO scene then, a LOT of great bands. in general, the whole Gravity/Gern Blandsten/Ebullition/Vermiform/Heartattack bands have stood the test of time. Econochrist, Los Crudos, Honeywell, Iconoclast, Man is the Bastard, Native Nod, etc. anyone remember Sleeping Body? amazing band. one 7" on Vermin Scum and it KILLS.

and then there was the whole Dischord scene in the 90s. lot of great shit, some not so great. not really hardcore, but Hoover, Fugazi (given), Nation of Ulysses, Circus Lupus, Lungfish, Crownhate Ruin, the Warmers... i can take or leave the Make Up, though i really dug them then.

i wanna check out Hail Mary. sounds great.

Yeah man...I need to record that Hail Mary stuff to my computer for iPod purposes. I'll try to slide you and some other's a few songs to give an idea. I totally agree with the labels you mentioned...that shit just consistently kills and doesn't give a fuck. A very welcomed alternative to the whole "hawdkaw" capoeira breakdown pit shit...or the ultra posi/youth'y singalong shit...which, as people who know me, just never appealed or seemed totally ridiculous IMO. I guess I'm not one for much "fun" music...although early shit like Void, Minor Threat, Black Flag, Bad Brains, Cro-Mags, DRI, etc. is fun to me (as is Spazz, Charles Bronson, and the rest).

any chance of an upload of this? Would be very interested in hearing Converge sound like Biohazard.

This thread has picked up a little again.

Absolution doesn't click for me, I'm pretty indifferent to them sorry.

Saw Cursed a week or so before, wasn't too impressed but local band Wraith did the whole tour pretty much, and (for HeBAY's attention) have been covering Serve and Protect by Citizens Arrest.

New to myspace, but having been around for a few years now and some what a precursor to Wraith is The Keep - one of my favourite UK bands at the moment. For what it's worth, there was a Born Against cover on their demo.

Ha...I think I saw that CxA cover mentioned somewhere in a blog comment a while ago. I'd be curious to peep that. Speaking of CxA and covers...how about them doing Red C's "Pressure's On" on their demo...Ted Leo vox and Daryl on drums...killer.

And speaking of Born Against and demos...I just got the Born Against demo 7" a few weeks ago..."My Country Tis Of Thee"...surprised there was only one other bidder on it...I think I ended up paying around $12. Pretty fuckin' lo-fi...practically was the "Industrial..." EP plus "Eulogy" and "Nail That Sticks Up..."...some songs changed a good bit from the demo to the official release...not the most pleasant recording to listen to, but interesting esp. since they are one of my favorites.

Kinda surprised you don't really dig on Absolution Darkeside...idk...just thought they'd be more down your alley for some reason.

[KyleFall]

new :

Cursed, Iron Age, Verse, Lewd Acts, Hour Of The Wolf, Down To Nothing, 50Lions

all fucking rules

[Guest binaural]

any chance of an upload of this? Would be very interested in hearing Converge sound like Biohazard.

This thread has picked up a little again.

Absolution doesn't click for me, I'm pretty indifferent to them sorry.

Been listening to Endeavour quite a bit lately.

Shows wise:

Was going to Annihilation Time but that got pulled,

Saw Cursed a week or so before, wasn't too impressed but local band Wraith did the whole tour pretty much, and (for HeBAY's attention) have been covering Serve and Protect by Citizens Arrest.

New to myspace, but having been around for a few years now and some what a precursor to Wraith is The Keep - one of my favourite UK bands at the moment. For what it's worth, there was a Born Against cover on their demo.

Converge demo/first 7"... both are, unfortunately, in storage with the majority of my collection (at my parents house), so i can't get at them at the moment. trust me, though, they were pretty terrible back then. At the time, Jake was also a skinhead, which is even more bizarre, i guess. The 7" was released on EXChange records (out of Boston) in 1990, if i remember correctly.

i also have the 7% Solution demo somewhere (Kurt Balou's side project with Travis from Piebald) and a Bane demo kicking around, I THINK. never really got into Bane. 7% Solution were sorta more melodic/DC-ish sounding.

Early Cave In stuff is pretty amusing (if anyone remembers). They were sort of a "screamo"/grind/straight edge band at first. different singer. Had a split 7" with a band called Gambit (also from Merrimack Valley).

[Larry Bird]

Converge demo/first 7"... Jake was also a skinhead, which is even more bizarre, i guess. ).

saw converge play on the 24th of last month, first HC show in awhile and i had a fucken great time...kicked in the mouth, fell down twice....felt like i was 17 again...played locust reign and the saddest day which gave me chills.

[Guest binaural]

saw converge play on the 24th of last month, first HC show in awhile and i had a fucken great time...kicked in the mouth, fell down twice....felt like i was 17 again...played locust reign and the saddest day which gave me chills.

i haven't seen them since their "last show ever" in 1995 in Worcester. was right after Halo in a Haystack came out. not sure if anyone remembers but they broke up for a while when their original bass player went off to college. of course, they were back together within a year. i've lost track since then.

[Guest binaural]

Yeah man...I need to record that Hail Mary stuff to my computer for iPod purposes. I'll try to slide you and some other's a few songs to give an idea. I totally agree with the labels you mentioned...that shit just consistently kills and doesn't give a fuck. A very welcomed alternative to the whole "hawdkaw" capoeira breakdown pit shit...or the ultra posi/youth'y singalong shit...which, as people who know me, just never appealed or seemed totally ridiculous IMO. I guess I'm not one for much "fun" music...although early shit like Void, Minor Threat, Black Flag, Bad Brains, Cro-Mags, DRI, etc. is fun to me (as is Spazz, Charles Bronson, and the rest)..

Agreed. I'll admit, though, that I have newfound appreciation for a few bands like YOT (who I was sorta 50/50 on as a teenager). Most of the other knuckledragging and/or militant sXe stuff is pretty ridiculous.

For me, almost all of the early DC bands hold up. Scream, Void, Bad Brains (of course), Minor threat, etc. And even some later ones like Rites of Spring, Ignition, G.I. Great shit.

Also been getting back into some thrash/crossover stuff like Nuclear Assault, DRI, Suicidal.

I suffer from chronic nostalgia these days.

[heBAY]

Agreed. I'll admit, though, that I have newfound appreciation for a few bands like YOT (who I was sorta 50/50 on as a teenager). Most of the other knuckledragging and/or militant sXe stuff is pretty ridiculous.

For me, almost all of the early DC bands hold up. Scream, Void, Bad Brains (of course), Minor threat, etc. And even some later ones like Rites of Spring, Ignition, G.I. Great shit.

Also been getting back into some thrash/crossover stuff like Nuclear Assault, DRI, Suicidal.

I suffer from chronic nostalgia these days.

Yeah me too (chronic nostalgia). That DC shit is ALWAYS great in my book. I also love the So Cal (Black Flag...who doesn't, Circle Jerks, TSOL, DK's, etc.) and Midwest shit (Articles of Faith, Negative Approach, Necros, etc.). Love the thrashy stuff that sorta helped give birth to the whole powerviolence thing...check out Koro if you haven't already...one of my favorite high on speed, thrashy hc punk bands from yesteryear.

I know I shit on the Youth Crew stuff a lot...but it's actually more targetted towards the post-YOT bands that have spilled out over the years. I actually dig some YOT (I think the earlier, the better)...it's not the sickest/wittiest shit in my book, but it's definitely got a place and wasn't as parody-worthy as bands who followed.

While we're on a sorta late 80's thing...I have to chime in and say I fuckin' dig early Neurosis ("Pain Of Mind" especially). That shit kills to me.

[the Repeater]

Holy weird mindwarp, Batman, this thread takes me BAAAAAAAACK.

[Guest binaural]

Yeah me too (chronic nostalgia). That DC shit is ALWAYS great in my book. I also love the So Cal (Black Flag...who doesn't, Circle Jerks, TSOL, DK's, etc.) and Midwest shit (Articles of Faith, Negative Approach, Necros, etc.). Love the thrashy stuff that sorta helped give birth to the whole powerviolence thing...check out Koro if you haven't already...one of my favorite high on speed, thrashy hc punk bands from yesteryear.

I know I shit on the Youth Crew stuff a lot...but it's actually more targetted towards the post-YOT bands that have spilled out over the years. I actually dig some YOT (I think the earlier, the better)...it's not the sickest/wittiest shit in my book, but it's definitely got a place and wasn't as parody-worthy as bands who followed.

While we're on a sorta late 80's thing...I have to chime in and say I fuckin' dig early Neurosis ("Pain Of Mind" especially). That shit kills to me.

yeah, a lot of the youth crew shit was a bit much, but YOT was good, Gorilla Biscuits, etc. still a lot of fun. Beyond was great. i wisgh i still had that record. Walter and Alan (GB) with Vic (Inside Out, 108). awesome. wonder if it's been reissued.

totally agree about midwest hardcore. most of those bands totally kicked ass. Negative Approach are classic. (also a big fan of Laughing Hyenas, Easy Action). SoCal too. hard to deny!

as far as post-YOT/Youth Crew stuff (from the 90s) goes... it's all pretty terrible. Strife were OK at the time, but i can't really get down with it now. Mouthpiece were also OK, but doesn't hold up for me. Ressurection were always good live... and i think i appreciate them more now, in retrospect b/c of how sloppy and imperfect they were. InMy Eyes and Ten Yard Fight, though, were really hard to take seriously. to me they were almost a parody of the youth crew stuff.

[headtowall]

yeah, a lot of the youth crew shit was a bit much, but YOT was good, Gorilla Biscuits, etc. still a lot of fun. Beyond was great. i wisgh i still had that record. Walter and Alan (GB) with Vic (Inside Out, 108). awesome. wonder if it's been reissued.

Wally wasn't in Beyond. You mean Tom Capone(Bold, Quicksand, Handsome).

Also, the singer's band after Beyond was really good. 1.6 Band.

I'm not sure if the Beyond record is currently available, but they DID play two shows a few years ago and it was fun.

Awesome that there's someone else posting about cool shit in this thread now.

[Hogtown]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, I haven't looked, but as much as I love Bad Brains and like the Supreme shirts, I can't help but feel this kind of disgust in the pit of my stomach that I'm going to see every rich shoe head teen sporting teen sporting a BB tee, claiming that they've always been into hardcore. These are the same kids that listen to a constant rotation of Kanye West, Lupe Fiasco and N.E.R.D. every single day of their lives.

[headtowall]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, I haven't looked, but as much as I love Bad Brains and like the Supreme shirts, I can't help but feel this kind of disgust in the pit of my stomach that I'm going to see every rich shoe head teen sporting teen sporting a BB tee, claiming that they've always been into hardcore. These are the same kids that listen to a constant rotation of Kanye West, Lupe Fiasco and N.E.R.D. every single day of their lives.

I agree completely and feel the same way about the Joy Division/New Order/SSD/Black Flag etc Supreme shirts.

In the Supreme thread, someone said they don't like Bad Brains but was debating buying the shirt still. I don't get it.

[heBAY]

woooh nice to see this thread moving the way it has the last few days.

yeah, a lot of the youth crew shit was a bit much, but YOT was good, Gorilla Biscuits, etc. still a lot of fun. Beyond was great. i wisgh i still had that record. Walter and Alan (GB) with Vic (Inside Out, 108). awesome. wonder if it's been reissued.

totally agree about midwest hardcore. most of those bands totally kicked ass. Negative Approach are classic. (also a big fan of Laughing Hyenas, Easy Action). SoCal too. hard to deny!

as far as post-YOT/Youth Crew stuff (from the 90s) goes... it's all pretty terrible. Strife were OK at the time, but i can't really get down with it now. Mouthpiece were also OK, but doesn't hold up for me. Ressurection were always good live... and i think i appreciate them more now, in retrospect b/c of how sloppy and imperfect they were. InMy Eyes and Ten Yard Fight, though, were really hard to take seriously. to me they were almost a parody of the youth crew stuff.

Yeah fuckin' agreed. Beyond was ridiculously sick. They weren't a Youth Crew band to me though...something a bit different (something...shall I say...musically "beyond") though most of the members played in Youth bands. Everyone who knew about them loved them...even avid YOT enemy/objectifier Jason O'Toole from (the almighty) LIfe's Blood was a huge fan. The album hasn't been reissued recently, but isn't THAT hard to spot on eBAY for less than a zillion pesos. I still need to win the shit, but I've been focused on obtaining all of the Born Against/CxA/Rorschach releases...don't even mention the PV stuff like No Comment, Spazz, or Crossed Out...those records ALWAYS go for money and it hurts to see.

GB's were great also cause they truly embodied the "fun" element (by not taking themselves too seriously). Wally was/is a great musical individual and I wish his Moondog project was more than jsut a demo tape.

Another band I dig that sorta garnered attention from both the Youth heads and ABC circle was Burn. Some people kinda lump them up with YOT and the rest...others knew them from that ABC'esque comp, "Forever," which had killer shit from BA, CxA, Rorschach, and Turning Point (the only thing missing was like Absolution). Either way, from the shit I know of them, killer band.

I honestly don't have any conception of the 90's Youth Crew/Posi shit...pretty much cause it all made my stomach turn...I was onto the San DIego type stuff of that period (Drive Like Jehu!).

Wally wasn't in Beyond. You mean Tom Capone(Bold, Quicksand, Handsome).

Also, the singer's band after Beyond was really good. 1.6 Band.

I'm not sure if the Beyond record is currently available, but they DID play two shows a few years ago and it was fun.

Awesome that there's someone else posting about cool shit in this thread now.

1.6 Band!

I don't know if this has been mentioned, I haven't looked, but as much as I love Bad Brains and like the Supreme shirts, I can't help but feel this kind of disgust in the pit of my stomach that I'm going to see every rich shoe head teen sporting teen sporting a BB tee, claiming that they've always been into hardcore. These are the same kids that listen to a constant rotation of Kanye West, Lupe Fiasco and N.E.R.D. every single day of their lives.

I agree completely and feel the same way about the Joy Division/New Order/SSD/Black Flag etc Supreme shirts.

In the Supreme thread, someone said they don't like Bad Brains but was debating buying the shirt still. I don't get it.

Yeah...I live in NYC and a trip down to Dave's Quality Meat(s) last Saturday gave me reason to hate the concept even more. The store was super busy, full of these "LES/SOHO'ian" 80's retro guys and gals...most of whom are still in their teens...and I look over to see a kid rockin' the red BB Sk8-Hi's. Now he wasn't one of the young 80's kids...he was older, but also just HAD to rock a Supreme t-shirt, shorts from Supreme most likely, and I think a cap from either them or some other streetwear giant...while sporting a girlfriend who was waaay too into Jordans and Dunk-Hi's. I rest my case.

It's just like the explosion of kids rockin' Misfits tees over the last few years...kids who have NO FUCKIN' IDEA what a "Fiend Skull" is. I've even seen kids who had standard Bad Brains shirts on and didn't even know they were a band. Huh??

Over the years Supreme has been bastardizing designs from classic Polo, Hip Hop, and (now, I've noticed) Hardcore Punk culture by thrusting that stuff onto shirts that only trickle down to the aforementioned kids...one's who usually have no association with any of the shit (all of these younger or newfangled Streetwear/Sneakerhead kids who were too young or too into wearing JNCO's and being a raver back when this stuff was going on).

Not that I was around for the peak of the Bad Brains or SSD, but I've older friends who got to see those bands plus many others and I genuinely loved that shit WAY before it became cool to rehash it for your clothing line. Not that some genuine kids don't rock it in moderation...but all in all, it's safe to say that they're focusing on a demographic other than the real heads who live/listen to the shit...first off by putting that outrageous price tag on the pieces.

For a store that was a staple for NYC skateboarding back in the 90's...they've really contributed to the trend of a skateboard being the 21st century man purse (every kid thinks they're a skater...they never heard of the 411, Girl, or Chocolate videos, but they watch Rob & Big to get amped to learn new tricks and think having a bodyguard while you skate is "baller status"...though Rob D. is nice with it...he's done an MC Serch with his TV show exploits).

[heBAY]

oh I forgot...THANKS SUPREME! Shoulda stuck to pictures of Raekwon with Elmo and a Tech-9...

[Hogtown]

^

amen.

It's like as soon as they think hip-hop has lost it's edge, they go on to feed off of a true and honest music form in hopes of finding something more edgy and fresh. I don't deny that someone working in the Supreme ranks has a genuine love for Bad Brains/Hardcore in general, but for fucks sake, they should know that if it has Supreme on it, any kid is going to wear it. I bet there was hundreds of kids snapping up the SSD t-shirts... have they ever listened to The Kids Will Have Their Say? They'd probably shit their pants if they even heard Police Beat or something.

[heBAY]

^

amen.

It's like as soon as they think hip-hop has lost it's edge, they go on to feed off of another true and honest music form in hopes of finding something more edgy and fresh. I don't deny that someone working in the Supreme ranks has a genuine love for Bad Brains/Hardcore in general, but for fucks sake, they should know that if it has Supreme on it, any kid is going to wear it. I bet there was hundreds of kids snapping up the SSD t-shirts... have they ever listened to The Kids Will Have Their Say? They'd probably shit their pants if they even heard Police Beat or something.

Hahaha very true indeed.

Just edited your above reply (check the bold)...hope you don't mind.

[Hogtown]

oops, forgot that one

[Guest binaural]

Wally wasn't in Beyond. You mean Tom Capone(Bold, Quicksand, Handsome).

oops, you're right. My memory is pretty foggy about them. I need to get a copy of that record, though.

1.6 Band were great. I think I still have the 7". Didn't Crownhate Ruin have someone from that band? also great. I think I even like em better than Hoover.

Agreed on Burn, as well. What was the band after, though? Orange 9mm? I wasn't too into it.

[Guest binaural]

I was just thinking of Burn and a band that sounded an awful lot like them... was Jasta 14. I still have the demo somewhere. Still pretty good in a rad/terrible way. the production is really weird, but they were always great live, for the short time Jamey was in the band.

And despite being sort of a tough guy band, Hatebreed EARLY on, were pretty fun.

[Clockwork_killa]

woooh nice to see this thread moving the way it has the last few days.

Yeah fuckin' agreed. Beyond was ridiculously sick. They weren't a Youth Crew band to me though...something a bit different (something...shall I say...musically "beyond") though most of the members played in Youth bands. Everyone who knew about them loved them...even avid YOT enemy/objectifier Jason O'Toole from (the almighty) LIfe's Blood was a huge fan. The album hasn't been reissued recently, but isn't THAT hard to spot on eBAY for less than a zillion pesos. I still need to win the shit, but I've been focused on obtaining all of the Born Against/CxA/Rorschach releases...don't even mention the PV stuff like No Comment, Spazz, or Crossed Out...those records ALWAYS go for money and it hurts to see.

GB's were great also cause they truly embodied the "fun" element (by not taking themselves too seriously). Wally was/is a great musical individual and I wish his Moondog project was more than jsut a demo tape.

Another band I dig that sorta garnered attention from both the Youth heads and ABC circle was Burn. Some people kinda lump them up with YOT and the rest...others knew them from that ABC'esque comp, "Forever," which had killer shit from BA, CxA, Rorschach, and Turning Point (the only thing missing was like Absolution). Either way, from the shit I know of them, killer band.

I honestly don't have any conception of the 90's Youth Crew/Posi shit...pretty much cause it all made my stomach turn...I was onto the San DIego type stuff of that period (Drive Like Jehu!).

1.6 Band!

Yeah...I live in NYC and a trip down to Dave's Quality Meat(s) last Saturday gave me reason to hate the concept even more. The store was super busy, full of these "LES/SOHO'ian" 80's retro guys and gals...most of whom are still in their teens...and I look over to see a kid rockin' the red BB Sk8-Hi's. Now he wasn't one of the young 80's kids...he was older, but also just HAD to rock a Supreme t-shirt, shorts from Supreme most likely, and I think a cap from either them or some other streetwear giant...while sporting a girlfriend who was waaay too into Jordans and Dunk-Hi's. I rest my case.

It's just like the explosion of kids rockin' Misfits tees over the last few years...kids who have NO FUCKIN' IDEA what a "Fiend Skull" is. I've even seen kids who had standard Bad Brains shirts on and didn't even know they were a band. Huh??

Over the years Supreme has been bastardizing designs from classic Polo, Hip Hop, and (now, I've noticed) Hardcore Punk culture by thrusting that stuff onto shirts that only trickle down to the aforementioned kids...one's who usually have no association with any of the shit (all of these younger or newfangled Streetwear/Sneakerhead kids who were too young or too into wearing JNCO's and being a raver back when this stuff was going on).

Not that I was around for the peak of the Bad Brains or SSD, but I've older friends who got to see those bands plus many others and I genuinely loved that shit WAY before it became cool to rehash it for your clothing line. Not that some genuine kids don't rock it in moderation...but all in all, it's safe to say that they're focusing on a demographic other than the real heads who live/listen to the shit...first off by putting that outrageous price tag on the pieces.

For a store that was a staple for NYC skateboarding back in the 90's...they've really contributed to the trend of a skateboard being the 21st century man purse (every kid thinks they're a skater...they never heard of the 411, Girl, or Chocolate videos, but they watch Rob & Big to get amped to learn new tricks and think having a bodyguard while you skate is "baller status"...though Rob D. is nice with it...he's done an MC Serch with his TV show exploits).

Its all just a big joke these days, I mean all these kids just rockin ts cos they think it looks cool but havent got a clue, it really does make me sick. I think hardcore in general is just going down the drain, the scene now from what I see is made up of 90% poser twats who only listen to certain bands because theyre cool at the minute. To top it off the shows are getting ruined by "hardcore dancing", I mean dancing come one since when has hardcore been about fucking dancing. I read a comment somewhere the other day, some kid was going on about how "HXC dancing" was all about control and how you werent meant to hit anyone when you were spin kicking and prancing around the pit like a one legged ninja, and Im just sat here thinking WTF? Back in my day(and Im only 22) a moshpit was for venting your frustration, yeah you might get hurt but that was the risk you ran and it was all in good spirit, none of this covering your face in a bandana and standing on the spot punching the floor shit.

Anyway, lets hope supreme's next run of tshirts rips off some other musical subculture so all these idiots can stop ruining ours.

Anyway, enough ranting. Speaking of youth crew etc, I dont really know if theyre considered youth crew or not, but out of all the bands from that era Turing point has to be one of my favourites. You can really hear their influence in a lot of todays bands especially stuff like stay gold, champion, have heart and also in a lot of the japanese newschool HxC stuff.

[Guest binaural]

Its all just a big joke these days, I mean all these kids just rockin ts cos they think it looks cool but havent got a clue, it really does make me sick. I think hardcore in general is just going down the drain, the scene now from what I see is made up of 90% poser twats who only listen to certain bands because theyre cool at the minute. To top it off the shows are getting ruined by "hardcore dancing", I mean dancing come one since when has hardcore been about fucking dancing. I read a comment somewhere the other day, some kid was going on about how "HXC dancing" was all about control and how you werent meant to hit anyone when you were spin kicking and prancing around the pit like a one legged ninja, and Im just sat here thinking WTF? Back in my day(and Im only 22) a moshpit was for venting your frustration, yeah you might get hurt but that was the risk you ran and it was all in good spirit, none of this covering your face in a bandana and standing on the spot punching the floor shit.

Anyway, lets hope supreme's next run of tshirts rips off some other musical subculture so all these idiots can stop ruining ours.

Anyway, enough ranting. Speaking of youth crew etc, I dont really know if theyre considered youth crew or not, but out of all the bands from that era Turing point has to be one of my favourites. You can really hear their influence in a lot of todays bands especially stuff like stay gold, champion, have heart and also in a lot of the japanese newschool HxC stuff.

I agree, however floorpuching and all that karate shit and posturing has been happening for a long, long time. It's lame, though, i agree.

Turning Point were great. Their split with No Escape (who were SO rad) is a classic. I don't think they're really considered Youth Crew at all, though. If anything, they (and bands like Lifetime, Flagman, Endpoint, Temperance, etc) were considered emo (at the time, and before that word became so disgusting). There was another band after, that I believe the singer Skip was in, called Godspeed. Pretty good, but not really hardcore at all. EP on Temperance records.

[Guest binaural]

This reminded me... does anyone remember Crud is a Cult? Members of Flagman, Ink and Dagger, Mouthpiece. Pretty rad, however tongue in cheek... check it out. Sean (McCabe) also did some pretty great fanzines.

Crud is a Cult

[Planet Mental]

I recently got into YoT. never dug "Break Down the Walls" or whatever, but I just got "We're Not In This Alone," and it's great. I've also been jamming Warzone so much as of late, Intro/Bust always kills it

[headtowall]

I agree, however floorpuching and all that karate shit and posturing has been happening for a long, long time. It's lame, though, i agree.

Turning Point were great. Their split with No Escape (who were SO rad) is a classic. I don't think they're really considered Youth Crew at all, though. If anything, they (and bands like Lifetime, Flagman, Endpoint, Temperance, etc) were considered emo (at the time, and before that word became so disgusting). There was another band after, that I believe the singer Skip was in, called Godspeed. Pretty good, but not really hardcore at all. EP on Temperance records.

Early Turning Point is pretty much by the books youth crew, but really good anyway. Godspeed was awesome, and so was Memorial Day.

[Guest binaural]

Early Turning Point is pretty much by the books youth crew, but really good anyway. Godspeed was awesome, and so was Memorial Day.

i guess you're right, but I guess when I think of Turning Point's "legacy" it's the later, more melodic stuff. The split with No Escape was such an influence on so many "emo" bands...

Which reminds me of Kingpin. Boston Hardcore.

[headtowall]

I agree. Turning Point's last few songs are my favorites by far.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=183965199

Skip's last band. Definitely worth your time.

[heBAY]

Turning Point..."Forever" Compilation...great song.

It's just funny what defines a "scene" (replace that with "subculture") to different people. Some people honestly believe it's all about the posi singalongs, or living with "the edge," or being vegan, or being DIY, or being political, or ridiculous karate kid shit on the floor, or being weird, etc. However you cut it, it's all open to being rehashed into the "cool thing to do" over time...just like iconic band t-shirts. Nothing is safe from poserization.

We're living in a day where shit has been reduced to nothing more than image. You don't have to be into politics, just yell about "stop the war/fuck the government"...you could be the most knuckle-dragging oaf'ish closet racist homophobic motherfucker out there, but people will call you posi or "real" if you sing about "uniting the scene"...you don't have to have squatted a day in your life, just wear patched-up BLACK tight clothing and surplus boots (don't forget the studs/spikes) and you're a fuckin' crusty or even simply "punk" to the rest of the world (esp. if you have outlandishly styled/colored hair like a green mohawk).

I don't think the hardcore punk scene is dead at all...I just think that the one from yesteryear is over with and the longer people dwell on it, the more shit becomes a parody of itself. Thankfully, certain individuals/bands are trying to keep the shit progressive which is forming today and tomorrow's hardcore punk sound...and they've got a lot of shit to study and get inspired off of. I just hope there's more bands who take musical risks and don't just assume everyone in the audience has a 7 year old's mental capacity and vocabulary. No one needs anymore dumbed down versions of straight-forward-enough bands of the past.