Feeling blue? What shades in denim say about you?

[kremedla]

I am about to write a paper about the socialogical evolution of denim from being a 'blue-collar, work uniform' to an urban, high-end uniform where the distinction and individuality stems from the brand whcih relates to the cut, fabric and wash (shade).

So my question(s) are :

1) What are you trying to convey when you choose a brand of denim- ie. if you were into diesel a few yrs back and now think they are out, or why the majority of ppl here are into apc

2) What are you communcating when you choose rigid, dark, selvage or washed out faded, acid wash???

3) What are the primary factors when you buy denim, (try to think further than just fit and comfort) ie. details on prps or lack of details on apc or uniglo.

If you want to go into detail hit me up at [email protected]

ps. Ring ring and serge, your opinions will surely help since i know you guys articulate your thoughts quite well-

[docdoom]

Interesting question...

To me the beauty of denim is the very fact that within the realm of an everyday and superficially utilatarian item is found a great depth of detail and historical purpose. To me i love the fact that what started as a piece of workwear is now workwear and fashion. Jeans range from the shredded stonewash 80s monsters to the rigid dark plain etc. I choose dark plain denim because i think it looks nic is the simple answer. I enjoy the fact that wearing dry denim is unusual, i like telling people about it and i have a personality with a slightly obsessive edge that means i love attention to detial. A rivet present or absent can make my day - that might be true for us, but for how many other people is it?

When we wear denim we wear history. There is something nice about being able to survey historical fashion and aesthetic trends in what you wear. I can wear some 40s replica denims with some 70s tennis shoes and listen to some 90s hiphop, next day its a modern cut of jeans, some nike rifts and some folk or whateverl. Dont know if that makes any sense but i just like that about modern society and product consumption.

I like the exclusivity of wearing japanese brands but i also like the ubiquity of levis and the fact that within a massive company mass producing cheap goods are the treasures we all crave. I like the fact that to most people jeans are anonymous, unless they are very birhgt/ripped etc they are almost like anti-clothing as they are often very plain, however to those in the know little detials such as leather patches, specific bar-tacks or crotch rivets are beutiful features!

I dont really like the fact that the topman denims had suspender buttons on, i think it is a valid feature on a pair of repica levi bucklebacks but not really arbitrarily affixed to a modern fashion pair. Similarly, there was a pair on here somewhere with both bar tacking an a rivet on the crotch which was a bit uneeded.

Usaed to wear diesel all the time before i was into selvedge and still wear a pair of kratts which i really like. Diesel has become identified a little bit too much with a certain type of person (id say its worn by the same type of people as wear g-star here, ie often teamed with some sort of blon 4-in-1 haircut and a ripped pink-t shirt, not wanting to generalise!) but that doesnt really bother me too much.

not sure how cogent all that was......

[kremedla]

thanks doc,

it is all very informative and insightful. i think it is good to think about what we wear once in awhile (though some may argue that it shouldn't be intellectualised). oddly enough a friend of mine whose partner claims to not care about what he wears refuses to wear any jeans that have any type of fading, whiskers, pattern etc...on them. not that her prefers premium selvage or dry, but he wants it to be plain and anonymous- yet he still claims to be the 'i wear whatever is available in the morning' type, but from my interpretation he is just as picky as someone who admits that they put thought into their purchases and style...

[witts]

1) What are you trying to convey when you choose a brand of denim- ie. if you were into diesel a few yrs back and now think they are out, or why the majority of ppl here are into apc

Edwin, purely for the quality. The best dry selvage i own. simple and class. basically its quality and attention to fine detail. for example... you can goto a store and see stacks upon stacks of cheap mass produced levis, lee, lee cooper and many more, all poor quality cheap denim. Or you goto a shop like topman and you get a selection of again cheap denim, faded washed jeans, with many different style. but there is nothing more timeless than a pair of dry indigo edwin. you can feel the quality whilst wearing them.

2) What are you communcating when you choose rigid, dark, selvage or washed out faded, acid wash???

Dark rigid selvage. you know your denim, you have an attention to detail, you like to look after yourself, you dont mind paying the extra money for them.

3) What are the primary factors when you buy denim, (try to think further than just fit and comfort) ie. details on prps or lack of details on apc or uniglo.

Style, selvage, brand, reputation/history of brand, price

[snapcult]

1) What are you trying to convey when you choose a brand of denim- ie. if you were into diesel a few yrs back and now think they are out, or why the majority of ppl here are into apc.

A: A basic simple style, clean cut, no washing, simple blue jeans nothing trendy.

2) What are you communcating when you choose rigid, dark, selvage or washed out faded, acid wash???

A: I choose rigid unwashed, because I'm dirty and stiff... Nah I just like to break in my own clothes, I mean I don't buy used dunks, why wpuld I need to buy jeans that look old and beat up?

3) What are the primary factors when you buy denim, (try to think further than just fit and comfort) ie. details on prps or lack of details on apc or uniglo.

A: They have to be raw selvage, have a nice simple cut and nothing to big on the back pocket, so yeah no evisu, tsubi for me...

[Geowu]

1st quality, then fit, then style. I'm not obsessed with denim, I try to be as well informed on every item of clothing as on denim. I think dressing well is very important, pleasant, necessary. APC denim has as much quality as I want them to have, they're 1st class on fit, and the style is understated, that means sort of timeless and classic: not cheap or exaggerated. I try to communicate refinement, originality and personality when I choose rigid, dry, selvage denim. That means I think in practical terms, don't follow necessarily what others think by following the distressed denim trend, which isn't original and doesn't always look that good. The quality, the best materials and producing methods, the shining glossy denim look, the freedom of movements in a relatively slim-fitting denim are some important factors I look for in denim.

[ringring]

Hey Kremedia, that sounds like a fascinating paper. It's curious how denim has merged from blue collar roots to then become 'classless' (worn by Presidents and paupers, any gender, race, age or creed), to the 'Premium' denim snobbery that's not uncommon today.

Are you going to post your paper on here?

[darknworn]

Okay, i'll give this a shot.

When I shop for denim, the name brand doesn't weigh in significantly in my decision. Although in some cases even negatively. As I gain sophistication in my understanding of denim, I tend to look for the finer things in construction. Things that I value are simple design, classic cut, selvage, attention to detail, and dry fabric. These things point to a garment that will last for many years, if not decades, to come. In a sense, a pair of jeans becomes a recording of my life's journey. The scars of life give the jeans character, one that I will be sure to appreciate in my later years in life.

You've mentioned several brands in your questions, here are my opinions on them.

Diesel: a brand from which I own several pairs from before I became a denimhead. I chose a pair with the faded wash because at the time I was into the rebel, carefree, aesthetic look. This is not representative of all the Diesel washes as I also have a pair made from linen, which works perfectly on hot summer days.

Levi's: a classic and an original. One thing they know well is how to make jeans. The current product range in the US reflects a decline in quality for several reasons. Nevertheless, a pair of Levi's 501 is timeless.

APC: a relatively new comer to the US market. I truly appreciate the minimalist and quality contruction. They've managed to combined several qualities that I value, and do so at a very reasonable cost. I own 2 pairs now, and most likely will buy several more over the next few months. I can see myself wearing their selvage jeans when I'm 50.

Others: each denim maker does one or two things better than the other. A craftman's love for his creation usually shows. I may not agree with him aethestically, but I respect the intention. For example, Rogan tries to convey a message of social responsibility. This I get, but for the artifically twisted seams, which annoy me, I probably would have own a pair. If the product is reasonably within my values paradigm, then a purchase decision is manifested. Some jeans purchased on this basis were old Evisu's and Nudie's.

I am not obsessed with denim, but there's a healthy level of appreciation for the ruggedness of the fabric for reasons stated before.

Good luck with your paper. I, as many others here, would be interested in the end product if you're willing to share.

"God is Dead" - Neitzsche

"Neitzsche is Dead" - God

[Serge d Nimes]

When someone here breaks-in their own pair of jeans and it becomes a masterpeice of fade, hige, holy cow, and drag, it becomes a coveted one of a kind item that conveys deep respect for such a simple article of clothing. Also there is an amazing amount of value associated in well broken-in pair of jeans; meaning, you can throw a wrench in some rich fuck's idea of good fashion when he is wearing some ugly ass destroyed D&G jeans and you strut up in your well broken-in jeans. While he invests a couple of hundred dollars in some slave labor, you have invested time, love, and commitment into your denim. and it shows, and he is envious.

I, like most people in here used to bang Diesel, but there is no personality in a pair of mass produced faded jeans. I'm glad I sold all of mine when I could get some decent money for them.

For raw denim I choose fit first, but I don't buy any jeans that won't fade well. What is so great about APC, is that it is the first denim brand that combines great indigo, narrow loom selvage, and a low rise fit. and they are dirt cheap AFAIC.

Carpe Denim!

[kremedla]

thanks to all those that have contributed so far- all very familar names.

i will be more than happy to share when i am finished but i def. need more input. so far it seems that the ppl that have responded are majority into premium, selvage denim. i think it is interesting that a big reason that selvage is purchased is that the consumer wants their denim to convey a story, i mean i am guilty of this as well after ring ring posted the nudie link of those that didn't wash their ralfs for months, so rather than buying a prepackaged artificial piece (perhaps tsubi, or again diesel) we want to be individuals that have tailored individual pieces....but again the irony in the fact that denim was supposed to be used as a uniform for the working class and now has become a uniform for the urban youth.

looking at the board i would love some to rebute and add comments why they like to wear faded, predistressed denim. i know it was mentioned that it may be a feeling of rebeliousness, but it would be great to hear more.

[r2]

i'm all for breaking in a pair of dry jeans and i agree that they can look fantastic. but its a long process and contrary to what some people have said, its not always worth it for everyone. for several reasons:

1) if you happen to really dislike the very dark, uniform look of dry denim you are stuck with it every single time you go out wearing them, for a long time. it's not always comfortable going out in an item that you don't really like the look of that much.

a few years ago i wouldn't have cared, i'd have just worn the shit out of them every day and in 6 months loved them. you try doing that when you have a job that means you can only wear them a few hours a week - it takes years to wear a pair of dry denims into a nice worn look. years!!

if you like the dark indigo look, you're set. you can rotate and have a worn and new look on the go..

i have also seen many pairs that are so hard wearing that the entire crotch has worn through before the rest is even half way decent. that would really be a shame.

2) distressed jeans are deservedly hated because manufacturers insult our intelligence by placing the most ridiculous fading on them. naturally, they look shit. but once in a while you find a diamond in the rough - a great pair where the fading is very subtle. to me, this is just a little helping hand - it means you can wear them wihtout hating their appearance whilst they eventually get nicely faded. i have several pairs that are 4 years old and have faded beautifully - the very slight pre-distress they came with has been taken over by natural fading and they look great. if i had a digital camera i'd show you.

nothing to do with rebelliousness. i guess if anything - wearing a uniform dark denim feels too much like the bloody suit i've been wearing all week and putting on my battered old jeans makes me feel the opposite. if i had the time to get to that point quickly with dry denims, i'd choose them every time.

3) most people think distressed is shit because its not usually selvage. and if you're into denim, you're most likely into selvage. personally i'm not. no apologies for it - we all like different things. i like watches and i have several vintage watches with complicated movements. but like selvage, some of this quality is on the inside and not superficially apparent. so what's the point? well, its just something you get to know about and begin to aprpeciate. i have this with watches and other stuff, but not with selvage - i couldn't care. for me, its about cut, fit, colour.

[Geowu]

I agree, some distressed denims look very nice, and have results that would be extremely difficult to get in a natural way. As to selvage, it is not really important, just better be selvage than non-selvage, and it's kind of a "quality certificate".

[ringring]

Yep.

I think many brands aren't washing jeans to make them look like real worn-from-raw vintage, but just to get a funky effect/colour on them. It's like Sex Pistols era Westwood wasn't trying to make her bondage trousers look like someone had naturallly fallen into a box a safety pins

Personally I think washing is very much a part of denim's history and for me at least, I've a healthy respect for the laundryman's art. From a historical and technical perspective, I'm interested in the way washing has evolved from homemade experiments like dragging your jeans behind a car, burying them for a week etc, to the invention of stonewashing, sandblasting, whiskering, 3D resins, lasers, chemical whiteners, etc etc.

I think selvedge also appeals to people who just want something different. If 95% of the population wore dry jeans, they'd switch to washed ones . The hardships of putting up with shrinkage, stiffness, smell and getting 'smurfed' is all part of the attraction.

[Paul T]

What's interesting historically, is that Levi's actually produced their first pants in cotton duck as well as in denim; they possibly came in white, and certainly came in a rust colour. Yet these other options seem to have disappeared very quickly, as the miners and woodcutters who were Levi's prime customers seemed to prefer the way denim aged. There aren't many items of clothing which look better as they get older.

The attraction of dry jeans is that every pair tells a story that is unique to its owner. Jeans are fashion items, but their appeal derives from the fact that they're so basic - and hence look different on every one who wears them. I confess i have around 8 identical pairs of Lee jeans, which vary from brand new condition, to just-about worn out (they're not my only jeans, by any means). I like selecting a pair according to how I feel that day. Dark if I wanna feel crisp. Distressed if I feel chilled.

Hence, of course, the irony of jeans 'aged' in the laundry, which all look identical and illustrate how you can buy an off-the-peg individuality. Which I like too. There's definitely an artistry to well-distressed jeans, and I have great respect for people like Adriano GOldschmied who helped develop these looks.

[kremedla]

I think it is amazing that the 'jean' has made such an impact. I recall my first impression of 'jeans' were jordache when i was about 7 yrs old, then there was sergio valente and finally levis. i am probably revealing my age from the above statment but even then denim had a huge influence on me. it was especially interesting since my father who worked in his levis had his 'going out' jeans and his work jeans whereas now i think his work jeans were much nicer from the age and the story they told.

crisp dark selvage seems more acceptable in places where denim is usually frowned upon (workplaces especially). though whats more interesting is that in the days when shops like Harrods had a dress code, now cannot differentiate between who has or doesn't have the right kind of money to shop there since many kids wear super distressed, torn jeans that may retail for 3-400 pounds.

whats even more ironic is that i had an argument with a friend who went to a private school in the uk who stated that 'trainers and jeans' combo were only worn by non private schooled kids since when he went to school it was never allowed. however when we went to eton (private school where Prince Harry and William went) the boys were ALL wearing denim and trainers...those that were privately educated and of his generation are all wearing ironed Tommy Hilfiger jeans with sensible loafers...ouch.