chinese denim

[Pandemonium]

^^^^that put a smile on my face

[weft]

^^^^a laughter a day keeps the acid wash away

[mizanation]

^That's what I'm talking about. They can make anything.

not true....

[coleslawyum]

not true....

They sure can. I didn't say that it would be exactly the same, but a close replica. Also, quality would be lacking. But to the nekked eye, who can tell?

[mizanation]

china can't make the super-duper slubby stuff that you see in oni and pbj jeans. they also can't make the super heavy weight jeans that you see by samurai.

i'm sure if there was a financial reason for them to make denim on that level, they will find a way, but right now, they are not anywhere close.

[horriblyjollyjinx]

china can't make the super-duper slubby stuff that you see in oni and pbj jeans. they also can't make the super heavy weight jeans that you see by samurai.

i'm sure if there was a financial reason for them to make denim on that level, they will find a way, but right now, they are not anywhere close.

14 to 15 oz. Made in China!

most of these fabrics are very similar to its Japanese counterparts so the possibility of them being replicas is very possible.

---------------------------------------------------

[mizanation]

yeah, i've seen tons of swatches from different chinese and thai denim mills.

they are not making extra slubby, they are not making extra heavy.

not saying that they can't. just saying that if you're not going to order 10,000 yards of a type of denim, they are not interested in making it. i've never seen a swatch of denim from a chinese mill that was anywhere close to the top quality denim coming out of japan.

[weft]

At the pricerange they are in, i think they look pretty good. And you don't have to order 10,000 yards. The whole huge minimum order thing is something i have not yet encountered from Chinese nor Japanese mills, besides hank dyed fabrics.

And i'm sure there are mills making "extra slubby" and "extra heavy" denim in China, and elsewhere for that matter. Japan is not the only place you'll find shuttle looms, and high quality cotton/indigo can be imported.

[mizanation]

i'm not knocking the chinese product. it's awesome.

[chad]

i can't find it now but i have read some very interesting quotes from the likes of miuccia prada and raf simmons about wanting to manufacture in china for their lines because the quality can be actually superior to italian made clothing, and delivered at a cheaper price too. the problem is people convulse at the thought of "made in china" goods and instantly consider it cheap and rubbish when buying those italian/european labels at their usual price point. i must reluctantly admit i share this same prejudice.

it is also interesting to note that people had the same prejudice with japanese made goods in the 50's and 60's.

as for denim, i doubt many people could really tell the difference between japanese and chinese made selvedge denim. i have seen some incredible chinese selvedge denim and found it hard to believe where they are from.

to push the distinction further, in the other chinese denim thread I asked if people would prefer chinese selvedge from shuttle looms, or regular japanese denim from non projectile looms. only tweeds answered and he is a selvedge denim man through and through. good to see that denim love can be blind.

one thing i am interested in that often a lot of these brands using japanese denim have fluff in their marketing materials that talks about shuttle looms not being made since the 50's and it is a long lost art form. from what i understand new shuttle looms are being made for the expanding chinese textile industry. does anyone have any info on who is making these and if they are replica's or improve on the machinery in any way?

[chad]

oh one other point .... whilst china can make some great denim, the washes and laundering are nowhere near that of japan or italy. not really the thing for the raw denim nerds here, i thought i would mention it anyway.

[tweeds]

to push the distinction further, in the other chinese denim thread I asked if people would prefer chinese selvedge from shuttle looms, or regular japanese denim from non projectile looms.

very good question that deserves to be asked again here

[weft]

Chinese selvedge from shuttle looms. I think its exciting to look at this type of denim from other parts of the world than Japan. An open mind never stood in the way of progress.

[jubei]

my answer about a year ago would've been japanese denim, but after several debates with my gf (who's in the fashion industry) I started to see through some of the "marketing fluff", as Chad put it.

As for my answer to the question now, I'd have to say that I'd need to handle the goods in person before I made a decision. Using the selvedge doesn't increase the quality of the fabric, so I wouldn't really use that as a criteria anymore.

[coleslawyum]

I held some chinese fabric that looked and felt incredibly like the Oni denim. I think that what Japan does over what they can do in China is the dyeing techniques. You just can't beat the richness and color of the indigo they got there, especially the natural kind. I also flipped through a whole book of swatches that could rival pureblue and sugar cane. However, the color wasn't as rich.

But, as I've said before, Chinese factories are so advanced that given the money and time, they can bang out product that is very good.

[poly800rock]

it is also interesting to note that people had the same prejudice with japanese made goods in the 50's and 60's.

up until even the 80's early 90's with guitars. fender were making lower end jaguars and jazzmasters over there before they eventually had to stop because importing them because the japanese variety were considered better than the american ones.

that very last neon selvedge is nasty. in a good way!

[tweeds]

i think it was StuckOnStupid that posted about his chinese KMWs, saying that it could well have been japanese and no one would have been able to tell the difference.

are swatch samples usually easily found? i'd like to see some samples from good chinese mills...not commonly found here in singapore.

[weft]

I have done a little investigating, and, for small runs of jeans, its actually easier to use Japanese denim and construct the jeans in China/HK.

edit: this is for a cheaper alternative than doing it all in Japan of course.

[mizanation]

I held some chinese fabric that looked and felt incredibly like the Oni denim. I think that what Japan does over what they can do in China is the dyeing techniques. You just can't beat the richness and color of the indigo they got there, especially the natural kind. I also flipped through a whole book of swatches that could rival pureblue and sugar cane. However, the color wasn't as rich.

But, as I've said before, Chinese factories are so advanced that given the money and time, they can bang out product that is very good.

man, coleslaw. if you say it, i believe it.

[coleslawyum]

man, coleslaw. if you say it, i believe it.

Hey, I used to be a hater too, till I saw the factories and met some of dudes who work there. They have advanced a lot since the last few years. The only thing that sux is the pollution problems. Since demand has risen over the last few years they have yet to find a way to get rid of the waste.

I recently sent them a whitesville varsity jacket to prototype, and I'm sure they'll find a way to replicate it pretty close.

[mizanation]

awesome, sign me up for one when they come out!

[chad]

I have heard the whole increase in Chinese selvedge denim quality has really motivated Japanese mills to compete on price and have been willing to bend over backwards. It seems like a few smaller mills have been more than accomodating on orders as they have seen so much of their business go offshore.

More selvedge at a better price is only good for everyone involved, no matter where it comes from.

[mizanation]

japan will not be able to compete on price. they will have to continue to innovate to stay ahead of the pack.

[weft]

Some of the denim is only half price per yard compared to their Japanese counterparts.

[Tarmac]

wow that pic is game over.

it makes sense though, thais can make $3 fakes, chinese can make premium denim.