Union Special 43200 Collection PIC HEAVY!

[masterofevil]

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Edited August 22, 2014 by masterofevil

[masterofevil]

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Edited August 22, 2014 by masterofevil

[rawsnoopy]

Best post/thread ever

awesome collection

[masterofevil]

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Edited August 22, 2014 by masterofevil

[masterofevil]

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Edited August 22, 2014 by masterofevil

[grav.itas]

Would be cool if you can post what the machines are for. Or are they all for chain stitching?

[apsidewatch]

Got some newbies question if u dont mind answering..

1. at the times of production, why did Union Special comes up with 43200?

2. Are they aware of the roping effect they made on the jeans before the production of the machine? Are they aware of it after the production?

3. Is there one particular person who comes up with the chainstitch method or it is a group discovery?

4.With the technology we have today and looking at how many levis repro on the market, can we replicate the machine to do a chainstich?

[jerrylee]

Dare I ask what you're hoping to get for these machines?

[masterofevil]

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Edited August 22, 2014 by masterofevil

[cfrp]

Nice collection of photos. How much are these things usually worth? They seem rare in North America.

[masterofevil]

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Edited August 22, 2014 by masterofevil

[Contrast]

To address some of the questions that have been posed in the thread:

These are all chain-stitch machines.

The chain-stitch based machine was the first commercially available sewing machine. I believe the "modern" chain stitch was invented by James Gibbs, (needle with revolving lower looper).

As far as "roping" I am going to hurt some feelings but here it goes....

The Union Special 43200 G does not cause roping.

The reason a chain stitch hem on a 43200G is roped is two fold. The main reason is what is called feed differential; when the folder is put on the machine it affects the way that the material is metered through the machine. Many modern machines have walking feet, needle feed, or differential feed dogs to ensure that the top layers and bottom layers being sewn move through the machine at the same rate.

Like many chain-stitch machines the 43200G is a plain feed machine, which means it has a static presser foot and one set of feed dogs on the bottom. A hem consists of (mostly) three layers, when sewing the feed dogs move the bottom layer and the top layer is pushed under the presser foot, leaving the top layer essential uncontrolled. What this results in is a feeding inconsistency, the top and bottom do not move at the same rate, but since they are sewn together a pucker forms.

Without a folder this can be alleviated, but with a folder attached the top layer cannot move anywhere to flatten out the pucker, since it is wedged between the foot and the folder, which results in the roped hem. Technically this is considering a sewing defect, which is why new machines do not produce as noticeable a pucker on the hem, and why jeans made in large factories do not exhibit roped hems.

Essentially the 43200G went out of production in 1987 because of this and other issues. The 63900 Lock-stitch hemmer is much better suited for production and that is why it is the dominant hemming machine in production sewing. 43200G machines are now sought out because they when equipped with a folder create a roped hem which is reminiscent of pants from a bygone era.

To illustrate this I have included a video of a 43200G sewing without a folder and you will see NO roping.

Also to a slight degree natural fiber threads when they shrink will do so at a different rate than the denim which can also cause a slight skew, but it is minimal.

Here are a couple videos of one of my machines sans-folder

Wow great description. Thanks for clearing up the roping effect!

[masterofevil]

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Edited August 22, 2014 by masterofevil

[Denim-Garage]

Union Special, DC4 Japanese Denim Store Berlin

 

[alexx1976]

 

DC4 Berlin

[kiya]

A homage to the Union Special 43200G:

 

 

 

[jerrylee]

 

A homage to the Union Special 43200G:

 

Love it!

 

[beatle]

Looking for a union special 43200g - hoping that someone with magical power can point me in the right direction..any input and advise is highly appreciated ...

[Maynard Friedman]

Beatle, have a word with Rudy at Son of a Stag, he has loads of 'em, seriously.

[UkeNo]

^yeah they had 5 spare last time I asked.

[beatle]

Thanks guys

[beatle]

and here's a good question for the seeing experts out there..

 

motor for union - thinking about solving speed problem.. would this one work?

 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/111229877281?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

 

[KW-BOW]

and here's a good question for the seeing experts out there..

 

motor for union - thinking about solving speed problem.. would this one work?

 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/111229877281?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

 

 

It might, Personally I didn't set ours up. But I can talk to the man who did. Our 43200G uses a Servo motor electric control panel and an air compressor. The combination allows us to adjust the speed at will and helps the needle stay even and controlled. 

Edited January 25, 2014 by KW-BOW

[satchelbmoore]

^ I use one just like that with no compressor. works fine.

[beatle]

Great - thanks for input guys

[satchelbmoore]

^it's more about the table since they don't have a typical configuration for the belt. the one we have has a custom table top that made all the difference.

[beatle]

Yep, that makes sense....thanks satchel

[Davil]

It amazes me.  Its like every answer to every denim question can be found somewhere on these forums!

[beatle]

That's what super denim is all about....melting pot of wisdom

[raWorkshop]

and here's a good question for the seeing experts out there..

 

motor for union - thinking about solving speed problem.. would this one work?

 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/111229877281?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

 

 

There are only a few base models of servo motor which are then sold under different labels.  These "tube" style ones have a poor reputation for failure.  I have several of the slightly boxier style (pictured here - http://tolindsewmach.com/motors.html they sell those motors for a great price too, $115 IIRC), they all work great.

 

Speed problems are only an issue on poorly set up and ill maintained clutch motors though.  I just bought a needle feed machine with a brand new clutch motor that gives stitch per stitch control.  Don't be afraid to take apart clutch motors and swap out pulleys, there's only 4 moving parts, only 2 parts to replace really.  Just an option.

Edited January 30, 2014 by raWorkshop