NYTimes - The Brand Underground (READ THIS)

[djrajio]

Very good article on branding via NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/magazine/30brand.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[will_i_am]

very good read.

marketing//branding//advertising interests me so much but at the same time i'm like fuck it.

yay for my major.

[holeinthewall]

Is there really anything special about these brands and this "movement"? Should it really be placed on the timeline next to the beats and Andy's factory?

[minya]

for anyone that hates bullshit registrations:

http://www.bugmenot.com

that was an absolutely incredible article. Thanks, djrajio.

Is there really anything special about these brands and this "movement"? Should it really be placed on the timeline next to the beats and Andy's factory?

That's what the article is trying to get at. The tone of the article is rather skeptical (for good reason), but history has not yet been written, so we'll see how this "scene" ends up playing out.

[werdtoyourmoms]

the article is excellent. it's nice to see someone slightly prodding aNYthing / the hundreds rather than wrapping wet lips around their testicles.

[seenmy]

yea really interesting,and actually giving me a few pionters on areas for my disertation that i really need to start writing.thanks

[poly800rock]

it actually says in the hundreds site that the NYtimes guys followed them around for a year...jeez...wow!

[fixoid]

magazine cover indicator ?

http://www.time.com/time/poy/intro.html

[artificialsky]

definitely a good article, doesn't really cast bobby and aron in the most flattering of lights, does it? the whole super-self-aware thing is going to collapse "the movement" faster than anything. all it takes is a few more boost mobiles.

i would have liked it to be even more aggressive: beyond selling your lifestyle, and "doing business," what streetwear is really about, for those who are creating it, is maintaining your spot, right? it's a validation of your cool and your position in the endless blog-website-party-blog-party-website circlejerk. there was a very informed quote on superfuture a while back explaining how all the top "cool guys" in new york were essentially the sons and daughters of the old new york power elite. i believe his quote was "it's the same cocktail party with a different setting, and you're not invited."

i'd write more but it's 2pm, i'm late for the line-up in front of the shop. ta!

[dcrevolution40]

Lol I didn't know you could read online so I bought the Times today. Was worth it tho; a great article!

[6MT]

i just realise that some one has wrote about ourgeneration and the generation's life style...

[ddohnggo]

well written article. seemed as though that a-ron came off as more of a self-righteous self important dude than anyone covered. the hundreds seemed to be written up as pretty true and honest dudes.

[faust]

definitely a good article, doesn't really cast bobby and aron in the most flattering of lights, does it? the whole super-self-aware thing is going to collapse "the movement" faster than anything. all it takes is a few more boost mobiles.

i would have liked it to be even more aggressive: beyond selling your lifestyle, and "doing business," what streetwear is really about, for those who are creating it, is maintaining your spot, right? it's a validation of your cool and your position in the endless blog-website-party-blog-party-website circlejerk. there was a very informed quote on superfuture a while back explaining how all the top "cool guys" in new york were essentially the sons and daughters of the old new york power elite. i believe his quote was "it's the same cocktail party with a different setting, and you're not invited."

i'd write more but it's 2pm, i'm late for the line-up in front of the shop. ta!

EXACTLY. Thanks for saving me trouble venting. This whole scene is just a bunch of bullshit... but you can buy the tshirt!!!

[onemancult]

The article was great, but I do feel that it was a little too easy on The Hundreds. A little way too easy- casting them as the hard-working children of immigrants, the fulfillment of the American dream, while aNYthing is just the wild scheming of Aaron Bondaroff and friends.

Maybe Aaron really did portray himself in the way that Rob Walker put across- but it reads more like he didn't really come to understand aNYthing and Aaron as much as he identified with the rags to middle-class riches story of the Hundreds crew.

aNYthing keeps getting swept under the rug and brushed off as a bullshit scene, when it's so much more than overpriced t-shirts. I can't think of anywhere else that pulls together from so many different aspects of NYC's culture- Walker should've focused more on the curatorial aspects of the aNYthing brand, the fact that there's so much that aNYthing encompasses besides 'weird new stuff'. Aaron's trying to be all-inclusive- you've got something to offer, bring it to the table.

So, someone mentioned history not being written yet... I should hope that things work themselves out so that aNYthing ends up being seen as more than just t-shirts n' hoodies, and brings all of its aspects to bear.

[djrajio]

aNYthing keeps getting swept under the rug and brushed off as a bullshit scene, when it's so much more than overpriced t-shirts. I can't think of anywhere else that pulls together from so many different aspects of NYC's culture- Walker should've focused more on the curatorial aspects of the aNYthing brand, the fact that there's so much that aNYthing encompasses besides 'weird new stuff'. Aaron's trying to be all-inclusive- you've got something to offer, bring it to the table.

As a Los Angelen and now Tokyoite, please inform me what aNYthing is all about cuz I can't see past the fact that it seems like nothing more than a label of expensive parody t-shirts.

[artificialsky]

^ i don't think anyone is sweeping aNYthing under a rug, that shit is blowing up, otherwise do you think a-ron would be proclaiming himself "#1 cool guy in the scene" in the new york times? people rock aNYthing stuff daily here in SEATTLE. crazed.

of course aNYthing is trying to be all-inclusive: according to this article, a-ron wants to be seen/become a sort of neo-warhol figure here, as witnessed by his invoking of "the movement" and referencing the factory, cbgb, the beats, etc. the weird thing is at the same time he talks about making money off his lifestyle, selling out, and how it all comes down to "doing business." the two seem diametrically opposed and i think that's why the article casts a more negative light on aNYthing as opposed to thehundreds.

in a way, i appreciate a-ron's candor, he's unapologetic, but on the other hand sometimes ignorance is bliss. i dunno.

[poly800rock]

a-ron wants to be seen/become a sort of neo-warhol figure here,

making tshirts that are "street wear" isn't going to make anyone a warhol, god save us if it does.

[onemancult]

As a Los Angelen and now Tokyoite, please inform me what aNYthing is all about cuz I can't see past the fact that it seems like nothing more than a label of expensive parody t-shirts.

That's understandable, being that you're not a New Yorker. There's not another place in NYC that people can go pick up the non-clothing items that the aNYthing store sells. Not a single place. The zines, the independently-produced DVDs, the records, the art objects, etc. aNYthing is so much more than t-shirts, but people don't know this because the only merchandise that they move outside of the store is t-shirts.

And, for good reason. These other items I mentioned are tied directly to the people that produce them, and these people are, for the most part, native New Yorkers. I know of a couple of people that simply waltzed into the Gangstore with their zine, showed it to Aaron, and he put it out on the shelf and sold 'em right then and there.

On the flipside, I myself have waltzed into the Gangstore, picked up a Neckface zine, turned around, and bumped into Neckface himself- he signed my zines, we had a short conversation about tons of shit, and it was great. I can't think of anywhere else that stuff like that happens.

So, sure, there are parody shirts. And there are shirts that aren't parodies. Neither are overpriced, in my opinion- pretty much on the level with other streetwear brands. But aNYthing, as a brand, represents a lot more than their t-shirt business. And, that aspect of the brand is what, I think, will allow it to make a mark that overshadows the hype.

[minya]

The article was great, but I do feel that it was a little too easy on The Hundreds. A little way too easy- casting them as the hard-working children of immigrants, the fulfillment of the American dream, while aNYthing is just the wild scheming of Aaron Bondaroff and friends.

Maybe Aaron really did portray himself in the way that Rob Walker put across- but it reads more like he didn't really come to understand aNYthing and Aaron as much as he identified with the rags to middle-class riches story of the Hundreds crew.

aNYthing keeps getting swept under the rug and brushed off as a bullshit scene, when it's so much more than overpriced t-shirts. I can't think of anywhere else that pulls together from so many different aspects of NYC's culture- Walker should've focused more on the curatorial aspects of the aNYthing brand, the fact that there's so much that aNYthing encompasses besides 'weird new stuff'. Aaron's trying to be all-inclusive- you've got something to offer, bring it to the table.

So, someone mentioned history not being written yet... I should hope that things work themselves out so that aNYthing ends up being seen as more than just t-shirts n' hoodies, and brings all of its aspects to bear.

Actually, I thought the portrayal of the Hundreds was... well, not negative per se, but definitely skeptical. Yes, in one sense, Bobby and Ben are living the "American dream," much to the chagrin of their parents. But in another very real sense, they're sort of gambling, and they both know it. (And I think this was very accurately portrayed in the article.)

aNYthing might encompass much more than "weird new stuff," but at the end of the day all it is is a brand. (And a store, and a "lifestyle," I guess.) That's what the article was trying to say, I think. Brands have become simulacra -- they are standing in for other things, representing other things. Brands and the process of branding has, in more ways than not, become an art. It's like Don DeLillo's nightmare come to life. (Yet I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as DeLillo made it out to be, nor do I think the author of the NYTimes article thinks it's "bad," necessarily -- he just remains skeptical.)

I do agree that time has yet to tell whether or not aNYthing and its ilk will end up becoming more than just the products it sells.

[onemancult]

Actually, I thought the portrayal of the Hundreds was... well, not negative per se, but definitely skeptical. Yes, in one sense, Bobby and Ben are living the "American dream," much to the chagrin of their parents. But in another very real sense, they're sort of gambling, and they both know it. (And I think this was very accurately portrayed in the article.)

aNYthing might encompass much more than "weird new stuff," but at the end of the day all it is is a brand. (And a store, and a "lifestyle," I guess.) That's what the article was trying to say, I think. Brands have become simulacra -- they are standing in for other things, representing other things. Brands and the process of branding has, in more ways than not, become an art. It's like Don DeLillo's nightmare come to life. (Yet I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as DeLillo made it out to be, nor do I think the author of the NYTimes article thinks it's "bad," necessarily -- he just remains skeptical.)

I do agree that time has yet to tell whether or not aNYthing and its ilk will end up becoming more than just the products it sells.

After another quick read, I do see how Walker treats The Hundreds just as skeptically

as the other brands mentioned, but I still think they come out more unscathed than aNYthing does, perhaps because Bobby and Ben do, in fact, recognize that they are gambling.

But, I wouldn't go so far as to hold that brands have become simulacra. There is still a connection between what these brands sell and the cultures they're drawing from, even if that connection is merely the fact that their target market is their culture. Beyond that point, which Aaron mentions in the article when talking about his thoughts on 'selling out', is where the realm of simulacra becomes more tangible. The relationships between brand and commodity, though tenuous, still exist. What Walker seems to highlight most clearly is that, eventually, those relationships may not exist- a unique idea, in my estimation. Would you buy a Levis-branded washing machine, simply based on the quality that the brand Levis seems to portray?

[minya]

This is a really cool discussion and a really cool article. It's about time someone treated this "scene" (or phenomenon, more appropriately) seriously without being within it (and thus coming from a very biased perspective).

[alm8319]

I would not go so far as to say that this is an outsider's perspective. Rob Walker, the author, writes about consumer culture, and a little while back, he wrote another article about (somewhat) Supreme.

I think my biggest problem with the article is how A-ron is portrayed as compared to how the Hundreds crew is. I admitt that I know zero about the Hundreds. I've never purchased a piece of their clothing or would even be able to identify any of their stuff other than thet "paisley hoodie" and their logo. Yet, A-Ron has been on the scene with his crew for a LONG time. To put aNYthing in the same category as Barking Irons and the Hundreds, brands that have made their name off of the internet, is incorrect.

Also, I think Walker may (although I wasnt there and have no idea) have misunderstood typical downtown elitism sarcasm and joking when A-Ron said he was the top cool guy.

Just some thoughts.

[FILTHY]

I thought it was a good article. I like Hundreds and Anything. Much respect to both Brands.

I never heard of the other brand Barking Irons?

[meditation]

who spiked the punchbowl?

[homi29]

This is a really cool discussion and a really cool article. It's about time someone treated this "scene" (or phenomenon, more appropriately) seriously without being within it (and thus coming from a very biased perspective).

i totally agree with u minya

streetwear needs to mature and grow up, and while the 3rd brand covered didnt interest me (cant even remember the name), prententious artsy bullshit imo..

then again streetwear is too often just a blantant ad for kids with lower self-esteem to feel cool about themselves for wearing X brand with X sneakers.

i think he cast a light on asking important question

the who what and whys of the industry. and the most important question of all

where do we go from here?

[alm8319]

^^i dont think "street wear" is that important or significant a "movement" that has a weighty message that we need to worry about what its saying or where its going.

This is a big difference between modern culture and American culture pre-1980. Today, and now, we are identifying a culture by consumer products, not by the message. The article barely mentions how aNYthing's gangstore is billed as a venue for A-Ron's crew to display their work. It really glosses over the point A-Ron tries to make about being more than just a clothing brand.

If you want to talk about who are we and where are we going, the answer is completely different for the Hundreds and for aNYthing. The Hundreds is a CA brand that has a completely different point than aNYthing (other than making money, which to be real, they are both just pimping kids).

[Tisswat]

Was this in the saturday or the sunday edition?

[rhythmandsound]

Yet, A-Ron has been on the scene with his crew for a LONG time. To put aNYthing in the same category as Barking Irons and the Hundreds, brands that have made their name off of the internet, is incorrect.

The article barely mentions how aNYthing's gangstore is billed as a venue for A-Ron's crew to display their work. It really glosses over the point A-Ron tries to make about being more than just a clothing brand.

If you want to talk about who are we and where are we going, the answer is completely different for the Hundreds and for aNYthing. The Hundreds is a CA brand that has a completely different point than aNYthing (other than making money, which to be real, they are both just pimping kids).

good stuff alm...

[typicalfashion]

“How do I turn my lifestyle into a business?â€

the ultimate trustfund kid question.

[faust]

Was this in the saturday or the sunday edition?

Magazine comes out on Sunday, but you can read on the web a day before.