Shoes that look better with age...

[fre-co]

absofuckinglutely. it's been said on here that john lobb (i believe i saw EG and C&J, too) has outsourced their productions, so what's so ridiculous about me thinking that a multinational, impersonal super sized company like louis vuitton would not phone in some stuff and bullshit the prices simply because they can?

also, do you think the rich moms buying LV would A: give a shit about the quality as long as it had the print on it, and B: would even notice shoddier quality? my money--or lack of money--is on no.

Oh man I know you are a kid and all but you should try engaging your brain before coming out with crap like this.

[big truck]

Its not such a ridiculous idea that LV might outsource production of goods. A little bit of research shows that it is possible/probable that they do. Unless akuma and fre-co know more than that?

[Foxy2]

Regarding LV and similar luxury brands:

Some have an outstanding track record and a history/reputation to speak of. Please consider that these brands often have different lines/ranges for different price levels. Certain lines will be done in-house with exceptional craftsmanship level in limited numbers at high prices. Some will be licensed and done outside. Often the price level will tell you what you are looking at. But you guys should know that...

Regarding outsourcing:

Outsourcing does not automatically equals lower quality. If there was no quality to speak of in the first place there will be no loss. If the company does not care for quality control/quality assurance at the outsourcing partner it should not come as a surprise. Also, statistically speaking if you increase your output and outsource (because you take more orders) you will face an increase in quality issues in absolute numbers - the reject rate or claim rate in percentage might actually have improved.

Most companies opting for outsourcing are driven to do so for various reasons:

- increasing output

- price pressure (especially in the US the domestic market is highly competitive and driven by sometimes unrealistic customer expectation)

- lack of skilled workers

and so on...

[CrashTestBrummie]

c&j islay, the ones i wasn't planning on keeping (!):

and beauty and the beast, c&j's coniston and a ww2 veldtschoen boot that i believe is lotus:

the veldt boots apparently belonged to a czech man who served in the british army during the second world war, according to the czech woman who owned them. they have a slightly different build at the back of the boots to many other veldt models, and match the design of these ww2 Lotus boots which were sold by an auction house last year after failing to sell on ebay:

[Seul]

Beautiful stuff, Ben!.. Can't wait to fuck this thread up with pics of the Tricker's veldtschoen boots...

[entertainment]

Regarding LV and similar luxury brands:

Some have an outstanding track record and a history/reputation to speak of. Please consider that these brands often have different lines/ranges for different price levels. Certain lines will be done in-house with exceptional craftsmanship level in limited numbers at high prices. Some will be licensed and done outside. Often the price level will tell you what you are looking at. But you guys should know that...

Regarding outsourcing:

Outsourcing does not automatically equals lower quality. If there was no quality to speak of in the first place there will be no loss. If the company does not care for quality control/quality assurance at the outsourcing partner it should not come as a surprise. Also, statistically speaking if you increase your output and outsource (because you take more orders) you will face an increase in quality issues in absolute numbers - the reject rate or claim rate in percentage might actually have improved.

Most companies opting for outsourcing are driven to do so for various reasons:

- increasing output

- price pressure (especially in the US the domestic market is highly competitive and driven by sometimes unrealistic customer expectation)

- lack of skilled workers

and so on...

agreed

Very few luxury brands own all their production facilities. Some that do (at least until recently) are Hermes, Tod's and Loro Piano--not that they always use the best methods, like Goodyear construction on shoes. (I am excluding most of the shoe manufacturers that followers of this thread like, because they are not luxury brands in the general sense.) If you want to know the low down on the methods many of the luxury brands use to produce items at low prices to enable huge markups, I would strongly recommend reading Deluxe: How Luxury Lost its Luster by Dana Thomas. Many manufactures have almost all the work on their products done in China and then have the final finishing done in another country so they can attach a Made in Italy, Japan, USA tag.

http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-How-Luxury-Lost-Luster/dp/1594201293/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330907506&sr=1-4

[criticalk]

some GTs on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120867580324?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1287

[Robroy]

My new Wesco Boss Western toes!

FREAKING LOVE THESE BOOTS!

Wesco craftsmanship is tits!

did i mention i love these boots??

bouya! Love 'em. Break in period for mine was about 33 minutes. Blackgoat, is that the standard heel height on yours?

[TheBlackGoat]

^^^^ really??? 33 minutes lol! More like 33 days! These boots are the stiffest boots I have ever owned, but that's part of the fun.

These are the standard heel height.

yours are pretty bad ass too! You got the 1/4in lift?

Edited March 5, 2012 by TheBlackGoat

[fre-co]

I suffered a few days with my wesco boss, and then filled them with water and wore them damp until dry. That broke them in in one day.

[rayw44]

I just got these from Zip on Friday. They are better than I had expected, and I haven't seen decent photos of his santa rosa stuff yet (not that my photos will change that). These have a compeltely unreinforced toe, brass buckles, green rolled top and green O'Sullivan half soles. The rest of the specs are standard.

The packaging is pretty cool too.

[Mich]

Very nice pair of engineers, love the sole job.

I might just have to look into these.

What leather was used?

[smittybat]

More info on the Santa Rosa's here - http://htcdenimdoctors.com/2012/01/24/santa-rosa-engineer-boots/

[rayw44]

They use an oil tanned leather, and the black is hand dyed. I believe he only uses an oil tanned cowhide for all his engineers. He told me he was trying to get horsehide, but the horse that Horween has is way too thin unless you want to line the entire boot.

The black also fades nicely to a dark brown over time.

[indigoeagle]

Beautiful boots. Thanks for posting.

How is the fit and feel of the leather compared to your other boots?

And I read that while Chromexcel has a more waxy feel while latigo (I think, that's what the Santa Rosas are made of) is more smooth. Can you confirm this?

Edited March 5, 2012 by indigoeagle

[rayw44]

They fit well, but I would advise working with Zip to make sure you get the correct size (they tend to run a bit small).

These are smoother than cxl, and you are correct, they are a latigo leather.

[Megatron1505]

Just sent my order in to Bakers for some Whites Oxfords, and now I am poor for the rest of the month. I wish some random internet person had told me that my life lacked direction before I bought them

[big truck]

Thanks for posting Ray. I saw the Santa Rose boots (I think) in HTC when I was over there before xmas. Really solid boots but the celastic toe made them seem huge at the front. Take out the celastic toe and you have a beautiful profile at the front.

I tried a couple of pairs on and they did seem to fit small for me, at least half a size. Surprised HTC doesnt get more of a write up on the various blogs and on here - given its proximity to MF and SELA, its hardly out of the way.

[Robroy]

^^^^ really??? 33 minutes lol! More like 33 days! These boots are the stiffest boots I have ever owned, but that's part of the fun.

These are the standard heel height.

yours are pretty bad ass too! You got the 1/4in lift?

Mine are standard heel height for the western last. Mine look taller to me for some reason. It's probably just an optical illusion. Mine felt perfect right out of the box. Maybe luck, I don't know. My packers were a solid month of torture, before they started feeling better (twice I went swimming with them on and wore them soaking wet till dry).

[Robroy]

I just got these from Zip on Friday. They are better than I had expected, and I haven't seen decent photos of his santa rosa stuff yet (not that my photos will change that). These have a compeltely unreinforced toe, brass buckles, green rolled top and green O'Sullivan half soles. The rest of the specs are standard.

Love the green accents ray. Stupid mobile Sufu can't see bigger pictures, are those brass roller buckles?

[rayw44]

They are not rollers, but they are brass.

He has rollers on the steel buckles, but I am partial to brass.

[attackwithstones]

What's the height of those Ray? And the upper and welt stitching colors... black on both? Did you get the shaft narrowed at all from his original last or is that the standard shaft width?

For those wanting to see more, Ray's Flicker has a lot more pictures of those beautiful boots.

Speaking of that, what is the other boot in the first picture with the HTC?

[rayw44]

That was a comparison shot of my 40s Chippewas to these. Didn't want to dump tons pics into this thread.

The height is standard (around 12" I believe) and the thread is black for the welt, and originally brown for the uppers, but the black dye obviously stains it. I imagine it will wear away with time.

And the shaft is now that tight as a standard feature. He recently revamped some things, like the shaft size and the heel counter shape, to more closely match the earlier Red Wings.

[attackwithstones]

The new shaft is so much better than the pictures of his original boots. The originals were huge around the calf. I'm glad he made that change. Also, I love the the brown upper stitching turned black because they look so slick with all black stitching. I'd love to see some comparison shots of your HTC and your MF Road Champs.

[rayw44]

Sure, I'll take some as soon as I can.

[Mich]

Ray, is the non celastic toe a special request or an option Zip now offers along with the celastic toe i've seen on other Santa Rosa engineers?

I really like this ultra low toe profile straight out of the box, i can imagine these will get a great shape with some wear.

The high toe has always put me off from the older Santa Rosa's, and i do agree with attack that the new shaft has a much better shape.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Mich

[TheBlackGoat]

Mine are standard heel height for the western last. Mine look taller to me for some reason. It's probably just an optical illusion. Mine felt perfect right out of the box. Maybe luck, I don't know. My packers were a solid month of torture, before they started feeling better (twice I went swimming with them on and wore them soaking wet till dry).

I lot of people have told me to soak them, then wear them till dry....but I can't bring myself to soak these bad boys.

Just going to enjoy the pain while it lasts

[rayw44]

Mich, it is a special order, but there is no extra charge for it. You can really ask him to make any feature you want and he can do it. Most, if not all, requests will be no extra charge.

My extra requests, like the green rolled top and unreinforced toe, cost me nothing extra. I think only certain brands of vintage soles will cost more because they are harder to find.

[Happy Hooligan]

I lot of people have told me to soak them, then wear them till dry....but I can't bring myself to soak these bad boys.

Just going to enjoy the pain while it lasts

keep in mind the "pain" can last for weeks.... once your shins are bloody, then think about soaking them......

[Mich]

Mich, it is a special order, but there is no extra charge for it. You can really ask him to make any feature you want and he can do it. Most, if not all, requests will be no extra charge.

My extra requests, like the green rolled top and unreinforced toe, cost me nothing extra. I think only certain brands of vintage soles will cost more because they are harder to find.

Thanks for the info, it does sound tempting to be able to tweak certain details, especially at no extra expense.