Shoes that look better with age...

[poly800rock]

not to cheapen this thread up but here are my beezwax wallabees after 4 years, i cleaned them up and awaiting to recrepe them.

[GregNYC]

I really find the RM site frustrating - they really need to put up some more images of the shoes imo.

I agree - don't know that I would ever have taken the plunge if they didn't have a store here in NYC. They have all their models on the shelf, and can make boots to order as well.

[GregNYC]

Those R.M. Williams look waaay better in your pics than on the website.

And they are super comfortable. I once jogged 5 miles in a pair.

[Analog]

And they are super comfortable. I once jogged 5 miles in a pair.

What's the sizing like on those - do they run large/small/true?

[LeicaLad]

Dang, Greg! You can’t post photos of such stunning footwear without SOME comment. (Please.) How do you compare the general feel & comfort of the Coniston vs the Alden Shell’s? Do you find the fit similar or quite different? Did you have to down-size in the Alden because of the bigger last they use? The RMW’s are also beauties.

Frankly, with your footwear budget, you belong in the AskAndy shoe-porn-camp. They are the Lobbs, EG and C&J crowd. It’s great to see these, however. Thus, I repeat the thanks for your posts. Please, stick around. Great stuff!

Wow!

[LeicaLad]

Whoa! I’m slow. In the time I took to type my message, all these other exchanges took place. Well, shows the interest, eh?

[nino]

For all you guys having trouble finding RM Williams info please read this thread from styleforum:

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=21179&highlight=williams

It will answer any question you could possibly have about RM Williams including sizing, different models, where to buy them cheapest(dont pay retail at the NYC store!), different leathers and options.

By the way nice alden cordovan boots greg. Everytime I see them I wish I wasnt still a poor college student.

[PG2G]

Thanks for the heads up

[Bill2]

Just posted this pic in waywt, but I figure it has merit here too.

405's, about three weeks old. Normal city wear, nothing outdoorsy

[Chicken]

Cotton Duck! Huge Thanks. This is great. I note that 1909 seems to be missing, but then I can't quite tell the difference between, say 1911, 1913 or 1914, except for the color. Is that what the catalog says? Same with the other three: Do we have two models in three colors each? Any prices noted? [Please forgive the questions, but I'm way off in the boonies and must do everything by long-distance!] Thanks.

those 1911, 1913, and 1914s look beautiful.

thanks for the pics Cotton Duck

they do look great. here's some more from the lightning magazine vol 153:

from what i can tell, the 1911, 1913 and 1914 are using horween's crome excel leather. they are based on 6-inch #245 models from the brown chief series which was a big hit after they released them in 1912. original ones had leather soles, but these new ones have lug soles instead.

[patrickBOOTH]

About four years ago Paul Smith's London line had these beat up looking wingtips for like $400 and I thought they were great looking. They seemed so versatile to me, but I didn't want to spend the money at the time so I bought a pair of Johnston & Murphy wingtips, put toe and heel taps on them, and just didn't treat them with care. I must have gone through a million puddles and kicked rocks and fell and whatnot and, I ended up getting them resoled. However, the uppers look amazing right now. I dont have pictures on me, but I feel wingtips look great over the years, but only the more streamlined leather sole ones, not those dumb rubber sole clunky ones that old men wear.

[mizanation]

jeesh, i was only gone for a few days and i missed all this. just came back from seattle--where, interestingly, i find that gregnyc and i shop in the same places.

gregnyc and i were talking about the "secret agent" shoe, or what i call, the "assassin" type shoe. no frills, no gimmicks. just performance, classy look and a high gloss shine. i am definitely gonna go for the bates. maybe if i see a pair for sale, some AE leeds.

chicken and i were talking about how the indy boot almost never was, without the intervention of harrison ford. the original indiana jones boot was supposed to be a redwing, but, according to legend, harrison ford insisted that they use the same alden workboot that he used in his construction days. he loved the comfort and the durability (and i'm sure the look). thus, thanks to harrison, we have the alden indy boot.

poly--those wallabees look great.

[dave023]

Those 1911 look awesome...but the Alden 405 stole my hart...

[skalogre]

Wow, this is the thread that will make me post on SuFu (well, other than the AW denim).

Mizanation, I read about your greek shoemaker - that is incredibly lucky. I will add to it too that he will probably be VERY appreciative of your spending time talking to him. Older generations of artisans, shopkeepers etc in Greece are often like barbers are in other places; hang out with their customers, have their morning coffee with their friends in the shop, et.c.

My great uncle was a cobbler, his little shop right under our apartment while I was growing up. In retrospect I feel I really missed out by not going there more often and just watching his craft.

As for the Tricker's Malton, those are nice. I own something similar, as I have repeated too many times over at SF, the Grenson Ilkley. The colour seems a richer brown, the boots themselves are more substantial looking, storm welted with an aura of toughness to them. That style of brogued commando sole country boot is a great thing to have around, and surprisingly versatile.

[mizanation]

skalogre! wow, never thought i'd see you on this side of town. good to see you, man. your expertise on all things esoteric will be appreciated here.

[skalogre]

skalogre! wow, never thought i'd see you on this side of town. good to see you, man. your expertise on all things esoteric will be appreciated here.

Esoteric? I think you have me confused with LabelKing

Shoes have become my vice so this thread had drawn my attention in the past, I just had forgotten about it.

[Watchout Lester]

miz-- on the assassin/mib shoe, before you drop the 275 on the leeds (which are very nice, don't get me wrong) you should look into the brooks brothers models, which incidentally are now made by alden (not the peal & co shoes, the line of shoes in the madison ave store that are just labeled brooks brothers, for real).

and they're on after christmas sale, you should be able to get a real good price, under 200 for sure.

[LeicaLad]

Skalogre: Welcome to the SF shoe thread. From what I can find, you are the only person in the world (okay, I exaggerate) with the Ilkley boots. They look very nice. Have you actually been able to compare with the Tricker's Malton? You've said you find them better than the Tricker's. Could you be kind enough to explain? I'm on the verge of picking up a pair and would greatly appreciate your critique. Thanks.

[skalogre]

Skalogre: Welcome to the SF shoe thread. From what I can find, you are the only person in the world (okay, I exaggerate) with the Ilkley boots. They look very nice. Have you actually been able to compare with the Tricker's Malton? You've said you find them better than the Tricker's. Could you be kind enough to explain? I'm on the verge of picking up a pair and would greatly appreciate your critique. Thanks.

Well, I am going by the descriptions and pictures I have seen. The Grensons are very well made, with a darker colour than those Trickers. The stitching is quite ordered, with tough leather that even in only months starts developing some nice patina. Their appearance is also more substantial. There is a thread over on styleforum where I posted some pics of those. From what I have gathered, Tricker's in general are decent but not as good as the better Grenson offerings - and the Country range seems quite well put together. Certainly better than my Allen Edmonds IMHO.

I am also going by the general consensus from SF & AAAC regarding Grenson versus Tricker's.

Some fit info that may help you:

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?p=225522#post225522

And a thread with some pics. http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php?p=195659&postcount=163

Feels weird directing people to my posts, I am more accustomed to asking questions on the fora!

[LeicaLad]

Hi Skalogre!

For once, I’d done my homework. I’d found every reference to the Ilkley in the both SFs. (Style Forum and SuperFuture) They are all yours. That’s why I said you’re the only person on the planet to own them! Those are great photos, btw. Glad to go back and look again!

BUT, I have not seen any consensus that Grensons are above Tricker’s. In fact, most of what I’ve found is generally the opposite. What will be said is that Tricker’s lasts are “less elegant” (whatever the hell that means, and usually only in reference to C&J, EGs or Lobbs), but they usually conclude that Tricker’s are among the very best RTW makers in the U.K. Grensons are usually ranked below even the current Church lines. Each line, of course, has a few models among their best that are comparable. This is my general understanding.

That said, the Ilkley’s look really, really good. And, the color is certainly nicer than the orange-ish Tan of the stock Tricker’s. Your photos show the color gets even better. I also appreciated your comments regarding the fit.

I’ve been tracking down what I can on the Tricker’s for weeks (and I have pair of Tricker’s Keswick shoes that are utter tanks!). I wanted the I-of-C Fan-Indy, but the wait for my size (seemingly the same size as you) is another 5 months.

Thus, I’m down to the Tricker’s or, because of you, the Ilkley. I’ll blame you either way! (Ha. That IS in jest, only.) It's just amazing how difficult it is to find info regarding actual construction quality -- on any of these higher end shoes/boots!

[skalogre]

Hi Skalogre!

For once, I’d done my homework. I’d found every reference to the Ilkley in the both SFs. (Style Forum and SuperFuture) They are all yours. That’s why I said you’re the only person on the planet to own them! Those are great photos, btw. Glad to go back and look again!

BUT, I have not seen any consensus that Grensons are above Tricker’s. In fact, most of what I’ve found is generally the opposite. What will be said is that Tricker’s lasts are “less elegant” (whatever the hell that means, and usually only in reference to C&J, EGs or Lobbs), but they usually conclude that Tricker’s are among the very best RTW makers in the U.K. Grensons are usually ranked below even the current Church lines. Each line, of course, has a few models among their best that are comparable. This is my general understanding.

That said, the Ilkley’s look really, really good. And, the color is certainly nicer than the orange-ish Tan of the stock Tricker’s. Your photos show the color gets even better. I also appreciated your comments regarding the fit.

I’ve been tracking down what I can on the Tricker’s for weeks (and I have pair of Tricker’s Keswick shoes that are utter tanks!). I wanted the I-of-C Fan-Indy, but the wait for my size (seemingly the same size as you) is another 5 months.

Thus, I’m down to the Tricker’s or, because of you, the Ilkley. I’ll blame you either way! (Ha. That IS in jest, only.) It's just amazing how difficult it is to find info regarding actual construction quality -- on any of these higher end shoes/boots!

You could be right, a lot of the Grenson lines are indeed pedestrian. My impression has been that the Masterpiece, Mainline (maybe?) & Country were better made than the base Tricker's, if not the high end ones. EIther way, the boots are not that similar in profile as the Tricker is less bulky for one

Are the Tricker's storm welted like the Ilkley?

I agree about the almost Allen Edmond's-like unattractiveness of Tricker's lasts.

[LeicaLad]

Well, I’m certainly open to learning. It would appear that you are right -- particularly about these boots, which ARE part of Grenson's high end collection. I simply asked a major retailer in the UK for a direct comparison. I don’t want to get them in trouble with one of their brands, but.. what they said was:

“A good question about the Boots.

We have visited both factories and seen the care and attention both manufacturers take in the production of their footwear.

The Grenson Ilkley we feel would provide the robust wear, whilst the Trickers Malton would provide this but its appearance would soon loose its freshness.â€

Now, I would have never thought of using “fresh†to describe boots. Still, it was enough for me. I’ve already ordered a pair of the Grenson Ilkleys.

These great boots are currently on sale for UK £110, plus £18 shipping.

[LeicaLad]

FWIW, the Tricker's country line all have Veldtschoen construction and water repellent leathers. (I forgot to answer that question.) I love my Keswick shoes. I'm looking forward to the Grenson's.

[GregNYC]

What's the sizing like on those - do they run large/small/true?

They run true-to-small, and wide - Australians have what RM calls "square" feet. My feet are wide, I'm a D or E in Red Wings, Alden and Allen Edmonds. RMs fit my feet very snugly and might I say "lovingly," in all the right places.

[mizanation]

Esoteric? I think you have me confused with LabelKing

Shoes have become my vice so this thread had drawn my attention in the past, I just had forgotten about it.

hmm, skalogre, i consider vintage japanese movies, kendo, old-school shaving, etc., pretty esoteric.

watchoutlester: thanks for the tip. might have to stop by BB. last time i went, the prices were still a little pricey...

[GregNYC]

Dang, Greg! You can’t post photos of such stunning footwear without SOME comment. (Please.) How do you compare the general feel & comfort of the Coniston vs the Alden Shell’s? Do you find the fit similar or quite different? Did you have to down-size in the Alden because of the bigger last they use? The RMW’s are also beauties.

Frankly, with your footwear budget, you belong in the AskAndy shoe-porn-camp. They are the Lobbs, EG and C&J crowd. It’s great to see these, however. Thus, I repeat the thanks for your posts. Please, stick around. Great stuff!

Thanks! Here are some comments:

Alden shell cordovans -

The leather -- not the greatest or smoothest cordovan surface I've seen. It's not that it's porous of course (because shell cordovan doesn't have follicles) but the surface has pits and valleys as if having suffered shelf-wear.

The fit -- pretty good - the leather is like 3.5mm thick and a bit stiff at first.

The sole -- painted at first - full leather double thickness sole.

The heel -- I wish it was less of a rubber wedge - like the old-skool heels that were leather all the way around, except for a half-inch wedge.

Crocket and Jones Conistons -

The leather -- soft pebble-grain calfskin with a glossy cap-toe.

The fit -- extremely comfortable, almost like RMs.

The sole and heel - the famous Dainite studded rubber "commando" sole and heel. These are sold as "country" boots (think of a London banker with his country house), therefore no leather sole.

Alllen Edmonds Leeds -- I love the shell cordovan. They are E widths and fit perfectly. Very nice cordovan and better last shape than anything I've ever seen from Alden.

About the Ask Andy and Style forums. Sometimes I do hang out there, but mostly lurk. They are more into dress shoes than I, and they are interested in bespoke shoes than I am. I'm mostly interested in WWII- and Vietnam-era vintage, militaria, denim, OD, khakis. You know, the look and feel that Buzz Rickson has captured so well. The Vintage Leather Jackets II forum. So I like it here!!

--Greg

[GregNYC]

hmm, skalogre, i consider vintage japanese movies, kendo, old-school shaving, etc., pretty esoteric.

All stuff I like!

[skalogre]

Enjoy the boots! I know I am, they go great with jeans, great with cords, great with heavier-looking trousers (like some cheap Zara grey herringbone heavy cotton trousers I have)

Plus if you get in mud, puddles or the like your only worry will be cleaning out the brogueing

hmm, skalogre, i consider vintage japanese movies, kendo, old-school shaving, etc., pretty esoteric.

...

Duly noted! I guess I do have a strange combination of interests, especially if you add Belgian ales, parrots and Soviet/military wristwatches in the mix! Never really thought of it that way, lol.

[skalogre]

Analog:

Just in case you have not seen it, Sator has made an incredible informational thread on RM Williams boots and their sizing over at Styleforum. I used that as a guide to getting from Nungar Trading the Stockman buckle boots I am wearing.

[LeicaLad]

About the Ask Andy and Style forums. Sometimes I do hang out there, but mostly lurk. They are more into dress shoes than I, and they are interested in bespoke shoes than I am. I'm mostly interested in WWII- and Vietnam-era vintage, militaria, denim, OD, khakis. You know, the look and feel that Buzz Rickson has captured so well. The Vintage Leather Jackets II forum. So I like it here!!

--Greg

Boy, that about sums it all up. I found this site because of Miz and registered because of this thread. I began lurking because of the Buzz Rickson link (I read Neuromancer BEFORE it was nominated for any of the big three Awards). I’d probably buy more of the Buzz Rickson stuff, if I didn’t find it a bit too overpriced for its actual value. If only Sugar Cane (same owners) would make black 47s.

I’ve long admired all the vintage leather jackets, but I’ve spent too many years in the tropics to bother owning them. Most leather stuff dies out here. (One respectable black jacket is stored in the US for those visits home, but these are often in the summer...)

Right now, I’m in my first winter in ages, spending it up along the Afghan-Pakistan border. Thus, my search for boots and renewed interest in heavier gear, including leather.

I almost consider this thread as my favorite site, mostly because of all the side digressions that pop up that send me off to track down strange stuff. Just like: “..i consider vintage japanese movies, kendo, old-school shaving, etc., pretty esoteric.â€.. “..especially if you add Belgian ales, parrots and Soviet/military wristwatches in the mix!.†See!!!

AAAF and the Style Forum are great places to lurk, but, without doubt, the most interesting people pop up here.

Cheers!