Shoes that look better with age...

[GregNYC]

^I'm a watch buff too, and recently have been hanging out here more than at the watch forums.

[duofold]

Heh...just noticed your Sub. You've got classic taste, Greg. Yeah, at my age, what little disposable $ goes to stuff that lasts. This usually means watches and shoes.

[Happy Hooligan]

watches are a sick, sick hobby. A pair of good shoes runs you about 3 hundred, a good watch about 5 grand.

[Christmas In A Submarine.]

ok- an admittedly annoying question within a thread to beat all threads, but I am in a time crunch and don't have time for a thorough searching- I'm thinking about going to order some of the jcrew/redwings from the jcrew store. (Apparently if you order instore you get free shipping). Assuming that the jcrew SA will know next to nothing about sizing, and since there is nowhere around Portland to try on a pair of comparable redwings easily I would love some sizing info. I wear a 10.5 in nikes, adidas, fryes and carhartt/redwings. I wear about a 10 in aldens and clarks...

any hope of getting a good answer to an awful question?

[nino]

ok- an admittedly annoying question within a thread to beat all threads, but I am in a time crunch and don't have time for a thorough searching- I'm thinking about going to order some of the jcrew/redwings from the jcrew store. (Apparently if you order instore you get free shipping). Assuming that the jcrew SA will know next to nothing about sizing, and since there is nowhere around Portland to try on a pair of comparable redwings easily I would love some sizing info. I wear a 10.5 in nikes, adidas, fryes and carhartt/redwings. I wear about a 10 in aldens and clarks...

any hope of getting a good answer to an awful question?

Theres gotta be a redwing store in portland. Try on the 875. The different widths make a difference. For what its worth Im a 13 in clarks desert boots and a 13d in red wings 875/8130 etc.

[GregNYC]

I'd go for a 10 and clarify the return policy. RW and Alden are pretty close in sizing. And Clarks are narrow too. So if you're comfortable with a 10 in those, then that's the best first try.

I myself can't wear J. Crew RW boots. Because the are all "M" width, which in RW terms translates to "D". I need E or EE. My RW Gentleman Travelers, also D, are now on the stretcher.

[cristeza]

Christmas, wait for J Crew to do their 20% off sale.

[Christmas In A Submarine.]

Nino- There is indeed a RW store in pdx. But by all reports it's truly awful and doesn't stock a thing. Everything I've heard has been so uniformly negative that I'd rather not waste the time driving out to the suburbs when this thread is such a superior resource.

Greg- Thanks for confirming my instincts. Knowing about the enlarged toe box on moc-toe style boots and my experience with carhartt/RW (which are I have in 10.5 but would probably be better with the 10s) I was planning on going with a 10.

As for return policies- according to the SA last time I went in: it's fairly comprehensive. If I order in store I get free shipping as well as return shipping. Essentially as if I were trying them on in store. Full return coverage as long as long as tags etc. are intact.

Cristeza- I would wait, but I unfortunately have a "real" job, which requires boots sooner rather than later. Otherwise I'd just order some crepe soled RWs from Zappos, but I really prefer the subtle commando sole on the jcrew special, the relatively minor "aging" is a bonus too, since they won't look too new, but will undoubtedly be thrashed to death quickly. I'll do my best to take care of them and post pics for all you folks who are so good to me.

Thanks all! I'm off to the store.

[k449]

Apparently White's still uses brass screws on the soles of their boots for the Japanese market , at least. Saw these on Yahoo Japan, and kind of like the look, although I go back and forth about my opinion on the heavy duty Vibram soles.

[amlai]

Apparently White's still uses brass screws on the soles of their boots for the Japanese market , at least. Saw these on Yahoo Japan, and kind of like the look, although I go back and forth about my opinion on the heavy duty Vibram soles.

Could be an aftermarket thing like the Vibram 700s...

[jiomitori]

Or so you've been led to beleive..... Just wait my friends....just wait.....

Bill... you can't just leave it at that!

[fre-co]

white's semi-dress ordered... couldn't resist.

standard brown, all eyelets, single leather sole.

went with 8.5E as I am 8.5EEE or EE in indies. Hope the size is going to be ok.

[ChadR]

Nino- There is indeed a RW store in pdx. But by all reports it's truly awful and doesn't stock a thing. Everything I've heard has been so uniformly negative that I'd rather not waste the time driving out to the suburbs when this thread is such a superior resource.

Greg- Thanks for confirming my instincts. Knowing about the enlarged toe box on moc-toe style boots and my experience with carhartt/RW (which are I have in 10.5 but would probably be better with the 10s) I was planning on going with a 10.

As for return policies- according to the SA last time I went in: it's fairly comprehensive. If I order in store I get free shipping as well as return shipping. Essentially as if I were trying them on in store. Full return coverage as long as long as tags etc. are intact.

Cristeza- I would wait, but I unfortunately have a "real" job, which requires boots sooner rather than later. Otherwise I'd just order some crepe soled RWs from Zappos, but I really prefer the subtle commando sole on the jcrew special, the relatively minor "aging" is a bonus too, since they won't look too new, but will undoubtedly be thrashed to death quickly. I'll do my best to take care of them and post pics for all you folks who are so good to me.

Thanks all! I'm off to the store.

I wish I could help you better, but I got the 12's (my normal shoe size), but the redwings were way to big, so I exchanged them for the 11's (D width). I love them. The SA's don't know anything about this shoe, exchange was like 6.95 and I got free shipping from an online code I googled. good luck.

[Denim Phenom]

white's semi-dress ordered... couldn't resist.

standard brown, all eyelets, single leather sole.

went with 8.5E as I am 8.5EEE or EE in indies. Hope the size is going to be ok.

who did you go through? What was the end price?

[Bill2]

RE: The Brass screws in the soles: On the heavy lug sole, White's still uses the screws. They are standard, and come on any smoke jumpers ordered with that sole.

Re: The new (old) White's model.....I will say nothing more till I have something physical to show you all...which should be soon (a couple weeks at most)......Remember the Sufu addage..without pics, it didn't happen! In the mean time....save your money

[amlai]

I figured people here would be interested in some of the earliest references of the use of shell cordovan in shoes. I went looking in the New York Times archives and found their first reference was on April 22, 1916. In the article, it said, "In the men's goods the dealers are said to be covering well on shoes of a hard-finished, dark Russian calf, which looks like cordovan. Shoes of this type are apparently popular now."

Of particular interest to the people in this forum is probably the next two articles... their use in army officer boots!

Sept. 8, 1917:

"One of the best-known makers of high-grade shoes for men has just put on the market an officer's service shoe that is said to be the best of its kind ever offered. It is a Blucher model of brown cordovan leather, and is made up with a plain toe and a heavy double sole. It is a full inch higher than the ordinary service shoe, and is unlined. The need of a lining is obviated by the fact that all seams are turned out, leaving a perfectly smooth inner surface. Other features of the shoe include the lack of a back pitch at the top, the idea of this, together with the increased height, allow the puttee to come well down over the shoe and to leave no gap. The entire back part of the shoe is in one piece and of double thickness. The shoe retails at $15 a pair."

Sept. 9, 1917:

"A novel officer's field service boot, designed especially for cavalry and artillery officers, is now being shown in this market by a well-known manufacturer of footwear specialties for men. This boot, which is nearly waterproof as it is possible for human endeavor to make it, is seventeen inches high and retails for $40 a pair. It is made of brown cordovan leather, on a blucher last, and laces across the instep. Lace gussets at the top of the boot, on the outer side, allow it to be fitted as snugly as the wearer may desire. An interesting feature is a spur rest in the form of a slight projection at the top of the heel in the back.

The same manufacturer has also brought out an officer's parade boot in imported Scotch grain and brown cordovan leathers. This boot, which is an inch higher than the service boot, and which incorporates the spur rest at the back of the heel, retails at $50 a pair."

There was an article published on Aug. 15, 1920, called "Increasing the Life of Leather: Research Work Which is Helping to Solve Many Problems in This Industry." In this article it said the following:

"Cordovan shoes, those aristocrats of bootdom, shortly after they were placed on the retail shelves would cloud with a so-called 'bloom' in somewhat the same way as fine mahogany or chocolates exposed to light. In the case of cordovan, this phenomenon was ascribed to the use of 'stuffing chemicals,' which had to be removed before the highly polished finish would retain its sheen. In removing the acid left by taning, the research worker was able to treat the leather in a way to make it more pliable. This was regarded as an especially praiseworthy accomplishment in view of the fact that cordovan leather has always been a very difficult one to manipulae. For that reason, the comfortable lasts obtainable in other leathers have not been possible in cordovan."

It seems that people have liked brown cordovan shoes for a long time. On May 25, 1918, there was an article published called "Men's Shoes Sought." In this article, it said, "In all grades of shoes, high, medium, and low-priced, with the exception of cordovan shoes, there seems to be a growing tendency towards black rather than the various tan shades. In cordovan, however, dark tan, which has gained such favor during the last year or two, is still favored."

There were a few other small references, but you get the point. It seems that the previously reported stories stating that shell cordovan's use was only investigated for use in shoes after the invention of Gillette's blue blade is incorrect.

[mechanical pencil]

Hey all,

I'm selling a pair of Alden cigar cordovan chukkas on the bay right now....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320226647390&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=011

Amazing thread btw! Piles of great info...

[GregNYC]

Amlai - Thanks, those seem pretty stiff prices. But then officers were gentlemen in those days much moreso than now - which usually meant that they had independent means and didn't rely on the army for income. In some countries they purchased their commissions....

Pencil - I saw those on ebay yesterday and thought by the description that the seller was a Sufu-er.

[Happy Hooligan]

those cigars got me looking and a there's a pair of 405's on the bay right now that are what looks like the older version of the indy's in a 8e I think.

In case anyone's interested (these are not mine I just saw them) if you were looking for the older version 405...

[fre-co]

Yes I spotted the cigars/selvedge denim and looked at the username to see if it was a thread regular.... and the 8.5E older indies too. There is also a nice older pair in 9.5D.

Itchy bidding finger indeed.

[GregNYC]

You know you're addicted to Indies when ...

(you're wearing something else this day (C & J Coniston) and yet are *still* thinking about Indies even though you have two pairs already. I might go to the Alden store and try one on! )

[Calden]

I think we all know what happens when you go to "try on" a pair of Indies. By the way Greg, did you pick up your GT's yet? How did the stretching work out?

Does anyone know a cobbler in NYC that will put recessed toe taps on shoes or boots? I asked Jim's on 59th while I was there last week, but he didn't do it and he wasn't sure who could. He said it's done in Europe quite often though. Here is a pic from Leather Soul on a pair of Edward Green Beaulieu's for an idea of what I'm talking about...

[amlai]

Does anyone know a cobbler in NYC that will put recessed toe taps on shoes or boots?

Apparently Shoe Service Plus on W.55th Street will do it. They do the work for Lobb in NYC. However, there have been mixed reviews about how well they do it. B. Nelson will also do it if they (or you) can get the toe plates, but they're having trouble sourcing the correct ones. There's a thread on this on the other SF: http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=25518

[GregNYC]

Apparently Shoe Service Plus on W.55th Street will do it. They do the work for Lobb in NYC. However, there have been mixed reviews about how well they do it. B. Nelson will also do it if they (or you) can get the toe plates, but they're having trouble sourcing the correct ones. There's a thread on this on the other SF: http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=25518

I have heard spotty enough things about Shoe Service Plus that I wouldn't use them. Hah! I don't know about B Nelson yet, since my Superleather J.R. Indies are gonna be done this Thursday, not today as they had said. I'll ask them when I go in Thursday.

You know, I'm guessing here, but I bet Miz's Minas could do this - he used to be a shoemaker, and he can create stuff on the spot. He made me an insole while I waited!!! He could maybe grind a toe-tap to the right last-shape.

Calden - My GTs are also at B. Nelson, being stretched/wetlasted till I pick up the Indies. I'll know on Thursday. The seam by the instep is very thick and actually gave me a blister. When they come back, I'm gonna try a Dr. Scholl heel liner sold for tight and blister-inducing ladies shoes. I've used them before on a pair of Indies that was too tight, and if you get them applied right, they really work. If not, then I'll be selling the GTs here!

[Calden]

Thanks Greg and Amlai. I actually searched the other SF but didn't find that thread. As far as the GT's go, I had the exact same problem and had to sell mine. I never thought about trying to stretch them out though.

[Bill2]

CrossPost from The Stronghold thread:

Thanks to a special offer from White's Boots we will be stocking the Semi-Dress boot, in sizes, availible for immediate purchase worldwide! As far as I (and my White's Rep...) know, we are the ONLY U.S. White's retailer to offer this service! We will stock the Semi Dress in a few different colors, and the SmokeJumpers in a few Custom, Stronghold exclusive make-ups.

Our first, sizable, order has begun to come in, spec'd out accordingly:

Semi-Dress Brown

D width

CopperHardware, All Eyelets {no speedhooks}

Single Leather sole

Sizes avail now: 8, 8.5, 9, 9.5, 10, 12.5

Price is $440 with free shipping in the U.S. International shipping is $40 for USPS Priority Mail.

We are also offering Cat's Paw sole upgrades on boots ordered through the store! Cat's Paws Half Soles, w/matching heels can be ordered for $140. You have your choice of the older, "White Dot" sole {as seen on the Lone Wolf Boots}, or the "Green Dot" sole, as seen on Chicken's boots!

Please PM me or call the store for details or orders. We run Credit Cards over the phone, or accept paypal.

Cheers!

-Bill

[Rawhide]

Nino- There is indeed a RW store in pdx. But by all reports it's truly awful and doesn't stock a thing. Everything I've heard has been so uniformly negative that I'd rather not waste the time driving out to the suburbs when this thread is such a superior resource.

Definitely verified. I made a special trip up there once and was severely disappointed in their selection, and the guy behind the desk was more interested in his book than in answering any questions.

[coleslawyum]

^^^Fucking A, Bill… I'm in debt hell inferno already…

[familyman]

You've got a good thing going there Bill.

[braid]

Had some down time tonight so figured I'd post the family...

left to right: Tricker's Burford, Fiorentini + Baker, NDC Rino, White's Semi-Dress

Ted Baker, Peluso