12 Oz Denim v. 14 Oz Denim

[jubei]

Obviously, one is heavier than the other. From what I've seen, though, there seems to be a large difference in how jeans of these two weights break in. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 12 oz denim seems to give sharper creases than 14 oz denim... this is just from observing my own Edwin ED 47s v. my Edwin 505SXR. Perhaps this has something to do with how tense the weave is? Another explanation could be the amount of indigo that each weight is able to retain. Does anybody know if heavier weight denims are able to retain more indigo than lighter ones?

In my experience, it seems that most Japanese repros tend to use 14 oz (or heavier) denim, while western brands (APC, Nudie, American LVC) use 12 oz. I'm trying to weigh (no pun intended) the differences between these two denims because I only have enough money for either the LVC 47 or the SC 47 and I see plenty of good reasons to buy both of them.

My thoughts so far are that LVC will probably look better in the short term, but SC's will last much longer... anyone wanna weigh in on this subject? (pun intended)

[damnIam]

Sounds like a logical conclusion.

[mizanation]

in my experience, weight is not the only thing that influences the creases. i've seen 15 oz denims crease much better than some 12 oz denims and also the other way around where a lighter denim "out-creases" a heavier denim. i think there are a lot of other factors involved when it comes to creasing, other than weight.

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[jubei]

interesting... how are you liking your SC's miz?

[poly800rock]

Quote:

in my experience, weight is not the only thing that influences the creases. i've seen 15 oz denims crease much better than some 12 oz denims and also the other way around where a lighter denim "out-creases" a heavier denim. i think there are a lot of other factors involved when it comes to creasing, other than weight.

--- Original message by mizanation on Jun 15, 2006 07:06 AM

yeah, agreed, i don't even pay attention to weight of denim anymore, if you wear it, it will fade

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtriggerkid

[mizanation]

Quote:

interesting... how are you liking your SC's miz?

--- Original message by jubei on Jun 15, 2006 07:24 AM

jubei, i love them, man. they look better and better everyday.

HOWEVER....

i looked at a bunch of samurais, onis and pure blues at blue in greene and now i see what really, really nice denim looks and feels like. i think i am going to get a pair of PBs next....

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[mizanation]

btw, jubei, from what i've seen, it's a lot easier to get nice creasing with the LVC's than with the SC 47s.

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[Ryu]

hell yes !

miz ! i agree !

[spiveyt2]

I have found that the creasing look (whether it is in thin, sharp lines or forms in fatter, more connected lines) is a function of how tight (sharper) or loose (fatter) the fit of the jeans are.

[mizanation]

^^^ yeah, it's possible to get nice creasing from loose jeans. the jeans i made are pretty loose but they are getting really nice creasing and honeycombs!

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[__3xL]

not true spivey because I have a pair of jeans that I am just starting to wear and they fit very loosely and the honeycombs are very sharp .

Now true when loose they will not always sit in the same place on your knee unless you pay attention . The location where your knee bends may move and all - but this happens with tight jeans also .

I gamma corrected this one so it would contrast better on photo with no flash .

oh also these are 14.5 oz Kaihara

Edited by numero_uno_3xl on Jun 15, 2006 at 11:20 AM

Edited by numero_uno_3xl on Jun 15, 2006 at 11:20 AM

[airfrogusmc]

For me I would rather have a pair with as close to the original weight as posible with. Its like the right weight leather for a repro military jcket. The wrong weight doesn't drap right. 12 oz for 1947s is about the right weight.

[mizanation]

yeah, i am finding out the hard way that heavier denim doesn't necessarily mean better. i am using 14 oz denim for a jacket i'm making and it doesn't drape at all. this makes the fit crucial because otherwise, you could end up looking like frankenstein. a medium or lightweight denim will give you more drape which is more flattering if the fit is a little off.

http://mizanation.blogspot.com

[spiveyt2]

numero_uno, I should explain myself a little better. With honeycombing, the combs form tighter (less space between them) on tighter fitting jeans than looser ones but not necessarily more or less crisp. The difference in crispness seems to occur in the whiskering on the front.

[jubei]

^^That's something that I had kind of forgotten about... the drape. Does anybody have any idea exactly what the weight of old 1947's were? I have heard both 12 and 14 Oz quoted.

I think what I'm going to do is buy SC's, see how they look on me and then sell them if I'm not satisfied with how they look.

[minya]

I don't think you can make generalizations about 12 oz vs. 14 oz denim. Denim has so many "wild cards" and possibilities for variation that I don't think you can say "____ is like this and ____ is like this" simply because of the denim weight. I'm sure there's many other mitigating factors.

[dongeri]

^^ I agree.

Whether it is ringspun or OE would maybe also have something to do with it, as the indigo may act/react differently on the different types of denim.

I would think blanc0 or ringring might now the weight of the 501's jubei is talking about?

EDIT: After checking the specs from a 1950s Levi's pricelist it seems the 501's was 13 3/4 oz denim back then.

Edited by dongeri on Jun 15, 2006 at 03:21 PM

Edited by dongeri on Jun 15, 2006 at 03:22 PM

[6MT]

i'm all for 13oz

[Yet Fung]

I think that the type of whiskering/honeycombing would also depend on whether or not the fabric was wet, and whether or not it has been starched. Sharper creases are probably just more likely to occur with lighter oz denim.

My personal theory on weight ( and I'm expecting to get flamed on this one ), is that the bigger, taller you are, the heavier the weight you can use. Someone who is a skinny 5ft shouldn't go over 14oz, but someone who is 6'5" 280lb shouldn't wear 9oz unless they want them looking like pj's. And that's the thing, if you want them to look like standard jeans, than you can't start getting funky with the weight of the fabric. If, however you are going for some unique look than I suppose all limits are off.

[brandon0809b]

So if thats the case then why are most of the jaanese brands that have a motive for making exact replica vintage jeans starting to make a lot more heavy denim, iron hearts 19oz, 15, 17, and 19 oz samurais, even evisu pushes their boxed delux 19oz. Is heavier denim a trend among us consumers or just the brands

[lilbucu]

they are making romantic repro's.

same reason why there are those super slubby jeans out there, they are just going to the extremes for fun and bad ass-ness.

[thelion1856]

i just bought a pair of sugarcane hawaii's and i fucking love them. dope shit.

i wore them a couple times but i still got my sammie's to break in, i cant wait till i move on to the sugarcanes next. I've been thinking of rotating them on a daily basis. Oh and i gotta rotate my Iron Hearts, i havent even worn those yet. And i'm lookin to buy a pair of SC Okinowa's. damn, dont know what to do.

actually the Iron Hearts are 21 oz.

[viv1984viv]

wow, miz's comments were real interesting, bout how pbj's looks like better quality than canes, I was toying with the idea of canes being my next purchase but if i have pbj's maybe not.......hmmm.

I don think weight has anything to do with fade, oviously i guess it could affect things a little bit but only in context of other variables, weave, cotton quality etc.

I dont really some cuts are prone to better fades either, all jeans tend to fade where they crease, and both tight and baggy jeans crease in the same places. Obviously honey combs shapes change from being flat to real rounded combs but I think this is a reflection of the wearer ( to some degree ) as well as the cut.

I love how tricky jeans are to understand, I've learnt just because all the technicalities are the same on two pairs they will not behave or age the same, due to some random slight change in the dye, or the weave or texture or cotton etc

I cant help but think if jeans characters were easy to pin down the wouldnt be as fun to collect and wear, and no-one would be on a never ending quest for the perfect jeans.

god im ranting.

[airfrogusmc]

Obviously, one is heavier than the other. From what I've seen, though, there seems to be a large difference in how jeans of these two weights break in. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 12 oz denim seems to give sharper creases than 14 oz denim... this is just from observing my own Edwin ED 47s v. my Edwin 505SXR. Perhaps this has something to do with how tense the weave is? Another explanation could be the amount of indigo that each weight is able to retain. Does anybody know if heavier weight denims are able to retain more indigo than lighter ones?

In my experience, it seems that most Japanese repros tend to use 14 oz (or heavier) denim, while western brands (APC, Nudie, American LVC) use 12 oz. I'm trying to weigh (no pun intended) the differences between these two denims because I only have enough money for either the LVC 47 or the SC 47 and I see plenty of good reasons to buy both of them.

My thoughts so far are that LVC will probably look better in the short term, but SC's will last much longer... anyone wanna weigh in on this subject? (pun intended)

Levis on their LVCs try to duplicate the weight that was on their originals for that particular year. So if say a 1901 501 had 9 oz denim that would be the weight of LVC repro of that year. My experience and the idea that heavier denim will last longer or is better just ain't so. LVCs 9/10 oz denim is some of the toughest denim I've ever owned. Don't let weight be your guide to quality.

[Paul T]

Bear in mind that 12.5 oz denim becomes 14 oz denim once it shrinks 10 per cent.

[sneakeraddict]

yeah, I guess it really depends on the denim quality.

I dont much know the technological and specification of weave tightness and denim manufacture. I have a pair of the valencia era 55 repros and DAMN the denim is one bad ass mofo, the colour ain't going nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE, and the denim feels extremely heavy and strong considering they are only 12.oz.

Funnily enough, I am wearing a sanforized pair of 14.5s and it actually feels lighter than those LVCs... Funny, hey?

Maybe it has something to do with the tightness of weave?

Like Yet Fung said earlier, I'm tall so I think heavy denim suits me better for some reason, as I feel light denim looks a bit 'flyaway' on me.

I dont like anything below 12, regardless of time of year. I am definitely planning on buying a 21oz pair when I can find a pair that I really love.

[airfrogusmc]

Bear in mind that 12.5 oz denim becomes 14 oz denim once it shrinks 10 per cent.

Paul check your PMs

[tweeds]

Paul, could you elaborate on your point about changing weights of denim?

[denimdestroyedmylife]

tweeds, when denim shrinks there is more fabric in a smaller area, hence greater oz. per square yard. here's a discussion of denim weight, with ringring weighing in on the issue.

[airfrogusmc]

Makes sense.

I gotta tell ya my 1933s(555) are 10 oz and tough as nails. Much stronger than my 12 oz 1937 501s from 03.