DENIM MANUFACTURING

[merlinhardy]

HELP BIG HELP. I WORK FOR A NEW BRAND BASED IN LONDON CALLED MERLIN, WE MIX ENGLISH TAILORING WITH FOLK ART AND STREETWEAR. WE ARE AVAILABLE FROM LIBERTY LONDON, BEAMS JAPAN, STACKHOUSE NEW YORK, PARIS2 ROME, COLETTE PARIS, AND AMEN BRISTOL.

WE ARE NOW WORKING ON THIRD COLLECTION BUT HAVE A PROBLEM, CAN ANYONE RECOMMEND A DENIM FACTORY OR JEAN FACTORY IN JAPAN, (OR SUPER QUALITY ELSEWERE)

LASTLY, FROM THE POINT WHEN WE SET THE LABEL UP WE NEVER WANTED TO KEEP THE DESIGNING EXCLUSIVE. SO FOR A/W COLLECTION WE ARE LOOKING FOR COLLABORATORS WORLDWIDE TO PUT THERE PRINTS ON OUR SHAPES, BUT IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING AT ALL TO SHARE THEN GET IN TOUCH. THE COLLECTION BRIEF IS 'ENGLISH INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION' AND IS CONCENTRATING ON ENGLISH WORKWEAR FROM THE VICTORIAN HAYDAY. THINK DICKENSIAN CHIC.

GET IN TOUCH WITH US AT [email protected]

PEACE

[Yakboy Equals Nurturer]

A similar question was posted here some time back. The board's resident expert in all things denim provided some info that you might find useful. Thread is here:

http://www.superfuture.com/city/supertalk/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=902

By the way, messages typed with the caps lock on are difficult to read and are often considered annoying.

Edited by Yakboy Equals Nurturer on Dec 10, 2004 at 12:10 PM

[ringring]

Cheers Yakboy

Try these Merlin:

Try the Kurabo overseas sales office:

Hong Kong Branch

Kurabo

Unit 1614-15, 16th Floor, World Finance Center,

South Tower, Harbour City, Canton Road,

Tsimshatsui, Kowloon, Hong Kong

TEL.010-852-27302672  FAX.010-852-27309314

Bear in mind that Kurabo has notoriously long lead times.

Try also Kaihara

Mr. Ron Lau

Textile Resources Limited

704 Ocean Centre,

Kowloon,

HONG KONG

Tel. (852)-27305015

Fax (852)-27357184

e-mail address:

[email protected] 

Despite these being Hong Kong sales offices, both are famous Japanese denim mills.

My advice would not to get too hung up about the denim deing Japanese. These days many countries make excellent denim, including Italy, China, Korea, Spain, Turkey, Pakistan....

Legler of Italy is a good alternative place to look for denim, it's probably Europe's most famous denim mill - their Genesis article is excellent for the price (for an Italian denim anyway).

Finding a Jeans supplier is reasonably simple, pick any country that makes denim and you'll find jeans makers. The first things they'll need to know are your quantities, payment details (LC or cash upfront is best), then your target prices. Make sure you check that they are reputable. Late deliveries, or worse, non deliveries will kill your company.

Good luck.

[I J F]

Ringring,

you seem to know a great deal about denim and denim mills, is there any information you can give me on Indian denim in general or is that too broad, I am possibly looking into Indian denim, and may be receiving some samples shortly, Im not sure what to expect? Thanks man,

IJF

www.brani.com / www.carpeinternational.com

[ringring]

IJF

Denims - it's pretty much depends on who you are pitching your brand at, that determines what makes a good denim for you. eg. I know some hardcore denim nuts who will only wear raw selvage denim, the heavier the better, despite the trend for lighter weights and funky washes.

Personally, I'd look for:

Ring-Ring denim. That is both warp and weft made from ringspun yarn. The underside will give it away.

Lighter weight is more interesting than plain old 14oz. 7-10oz.

Check that you are given fabric cuttings that show each article in raw and washed states. Preferably 2 tones of wash. So you have an idea of how the denim reacts under washing.

If you are doing womenswear, look for 2-3% lycra/spandex. No more.

Look for a compact cloth. Thick and spongey isn't good IMHO. Again, that's personal prefs.

It shouldn't be 'hairy' when raw or after a rinse wash. This means a lack of finishing. (although some high-end selvage denims are a little fuzzy).

Sanforized denims cost more but are more stable.

Check prices, sample yardage availability, production minimums and delivery times. All will make an impact on your decision.

Good luck with your denims.

[I J F]

Ring Ring,

Thank you really appreciate, your knowledge on denim is incredibly strong and impressive. I am currently talking to a major textile manufacturer in Bulgaria who supply many a lot of Europe. I am unsure as to what scale they truly do business on, however they have suggested their Indian denim, and I guess I will have to have it to truly decide. I will certainly keep your information handy as previoulsy I was unsure in the lycra % and of the wash. Thanks again,

IJF

www.brani.com / www.carpeinternational.com

[ringring]

IJF

Be careful to take time and choose wisely when it comes to finding a supplier. It is one of the most important business relationships you will make.

Bulgaria does not strike me as a major denim supplier to Europe (something confirmed by the fact that they have recommended Indian denim to you). I am surprised they have not suggested denims from countries that are closer to Bulgaria, eg. Turkey and Greece. That would save shipping time and costs and possibly some import duties. If they don't actually make denim, what do they do? Sewing and washing?

Make sure you are informed about which brands they already supply, this will give you some idea of the scale of company that they claim to be. Go visit them and see their production. (it's all too easy for agents to buy samples from shops and claim they made them). Also make sure their sewing lines actually make jeans, rather than regular pants, because jeans and pants are different. Real Jeans sewing factories must have Fell Seam machines (rather than just Overlock+double stitch) and chain stitching machines.

For other cheap denim suppliers look to Poland, Romania, Turkey and Brasil. As well as China and Pakistan of course.

Your price point, quantities and delivery times will usually make the decision for you.

Good luck.

PS *disclaimer* please don't take anything I say as gospel. Do your research and make your own decisions. I am just another anonymous internet poster. I would never claim to be a denim expert, just someone with a fondness for denim.

Edited by ringring on Dec 18, 2004 at 07:17 AM

[futuretalk]

hey Deni(pronounced de-nai, like jedi) master do you know anything about Levi's Red Loop denim line? They're exclusive for Asia and are manufactured in Japan. To my knowledge they're all ring spun but I'm not sure if their selvedge...any info?

oh yeah ignore that deni master crap......that was lame I know.

[I J F]

Ringring,

What can I say, your simply a denimologist, thanks for all the advice, I appreciate it man, just curious as to what field of fashion you are involved in and where you have gained all this knowledge and experience from over the years? Thanks again man,

Peace

www.brani.com / www.carpeinternational.com

[ringring]

LOL@ Deni

Futuretalk - sorry I can't give you much feedback on Levis Red Loop, despite browsing through some last week. I wasn't paying much attention, because I was with some hardcore denim nut who was regaling me with his stories of wearing Denime's for a whole year without washing! Anyway, what I saw looked excellent. *now regretting not taking a harder look*

IJF - you're welcome, I wish you much success in getting your denim collection off the ground. My field of fashion? I'm just a denim lover. It's good to see there's a lot of us on this forum.

[futuretalk]

yeah it's hard to even find any sites on them...the ones I've seen are Japanese sites and there are only a handful of them! I think I've seen all the sites that actually have pics of Red Loops! All I know is they're DARK and probably raw.

Damn...with the way I sweat I could never wear jeans for that long! I even sleep in them on a regular basis but somehow I seem to be sweating a lot in my sleep these days for some reason no matter how cold it is and you can imagine how yucky they get after several nights!

[ringring]

Quote:

yeah it's hard to even find any sites on them...the ones I've seen are Japanese sites and there are only a handful of them! I think I've seen all the sites that actually have pics of Red Loops! All I know is they're DARK and probably raw.

Damn...with the way I sweat I could never wear jeans for that long! I even sleep in them on a regular basis but somehow I seem to be sweating a lot in my sleep these days for some reason no matter how cold it is and you can imagine how yucky they get after several nights!

--- Original message by futuretalk on Dec 14, 2004 08:14 AM

LOL, I know what you mean. The very thought of wearing a pair of jeans a whole year without washing, brings me out in a rash. Still, I admired his devotion to denim - and I'm looking forward to seeing them after a year (washed!).

[wild_whiskey]

Perhaps this is a subject that has already been covered, but what is it about denim that makes it nicer after you wear it longer? I heard to wear unwashed denim for a few months before washing them (currently doing so with a pair of A.P.C.s that are a very nice fit, I might add), but I am really unsure of what exactly is happening when you do this. Will you notice wearing on the jeans during the 3-6 month period or does it become apparent after washing?

[Guest]

Quote:

Perhaps this is a subject that has already been covered, but what is it about denim that makes it nicer after you wear it longer? I heard to wear unwashed denim for a few months before washing them (currently doing so with a pair of A.P.C.s that are a very nice fit, I might add), but I am really unsure of what exactly is happening when you do this. Will you notice wearing on the jeans during the 3-6 month period or does it become apparent after washing?

--- Original message by wild_whiskey on Dec 14, 2004 02:18 PM

Indigo is often called a "living colour" - which means by nature it is unstable. It changes with wear, exposure to changes in temperature, humidity etc. So whatever you expose it to is mirrored in changes in colour of your denim.

Why wear unwashed denim for a few months before washing?

Well, if you are a purist then the prolonged period of wear will produce all those nice aging effects that most companies strive to replicate with industrial washing (whiskers, worn knees, hems, pocket edges etc). The reason people try and prolong the time before the first wash is to increase the contrast between the wear marks and the base denim. So the end effect is nice dark jeans with natural highlighted wear marks.

You will notice the wear marks before you wash. The denim will soften with wear and the areas that get abrasion will appear lighter even before washing.

If you can't bear not to wash, yet want to comprise you can do two things:

1.Spot clean only - ie. just wipe up any particularly grubby bits with a cloth and soapy warm water.

2. Cool soak - kinda like washing a cashmere jumper or handmade quilt. Soak in cool soapy water and then soak several times in cool clean water to remove the soap.

Nicer, as ever is subjective. Whether it really matters how many times you wash your jeans is debatable.

[ringring]

Quote:

Perhaps this is a subject that has already been covered, but what is it about denim that makes it nicer after you wear it longer? I heard to wear unwashed denim for a few months before washing them (currently doing so with a pair of A.P.C.s that are a very nice fit, I might add), but I am really unsure of what exactly is happening when you do this. Will you notice wearing on the jeans during the 3-6 month period or does it become apparent after washing?

--- Original message by wild_whiskey on Dec 14, 2004 02:18 PM

Indigo is often called a "living colour" - which means by nature it is unstable. It changes with wear, exposure to changes in temperature, humidity etc. So whatever you expose it to is mirrored in changes in colour of your denim.

Why wear unwashed denim for a few months before washing?

Well, if you are a purist then the prolonged period of wear will produce all those nice aging effects that most companies strive to replicate with industrial washing (whiskers, worn knees, hems, pocket edges etc). The reason people try and prolong the time before the first wash is to increase the contrast between the wear marks and the base denim. So the end effect is nice dark jeans with natural highlighted wear marks.

You will notice the wear marks before you wash. The denim will soften with wear and the areas that get abrasion will appear lighter even before washing.

If you can't bear not to wash, yet want to comprise you can do two things:

1.Spot clean only - ie. just wipe up any particularly grubby bits with a cloth and soapy warm water.

2. Cool soak - kinda like washing a cashmere jumper or handmade quilt. Soak in cool soapy water and then soak several times in cool clean water to remove the soap.

I suppose you could also dry clean your jeans to get them clean without losing much indigo.

Nicer, as ever is subjective. Whether it really matters how many times you wash your jeans is debatable.

[wild_whiskey]

Thank you for the informative reply. Since I only have one pair of unwashed denim jeans, I think I'm going to go all out and keep them unwashed for a couple months to see how it looks. I have absolutely no problem with wearing grubby jeans, and I usually take pride in beating the crap out of them (if I didn't want to pulverize them, I would be wearing Incotex trousers, not Earnest Sewns). I am looking forward to having some jeans with actual personalized whiskers, that form exactly where the jeans crease on my body, and knees that are actually worn in where my knees are. I just wish I could speed up the process a bit.

[ringring]

Quote:

Thank you for the informative reply. Since I only have one pair of unwashed denim jeans, I think I'm going to go all out and keep them unwashed for a couple months to see how it looks. I have absolutely no problem with wearing grubby jeans, and I usually take pride in beating the crap out of them (if I didn't want to pulverize them, I would be wearing Incotex trousers, not Earnest Sewns). I am looking forward to having some jeans with actual personalized whiskers, that form exactly where the jeans crease on my body, and knees that are actually worn in where my knees are. I just wish I could speed up the process a bit.

--- Original message by wild_whiskey on Dec 14, 2004 02:48 PM

You can speed up the process with a bit of fine sandpaper. Just rub lightly the thighs, knees and creased areas - you can do this whilst you have the jeans on from a sitting position.

[FRESH]

I Have a pair of APC pants that I have had since early August; I have not washed them at all yet (and wear them almost everyday) they are wearing in nicely (especially the color of the creases and at the bottom of the leg.) I find that if the denim starts to get soft, you could just spray some xtra crisp scotch gaurd and its almost like New!. If it starts to get smelly at all, fabreeze seems to kill the smell.. I have a pair of Levis Red Rigid Slims (which is a thinner denim than APC) and I got those around the same time. I washed them once, and wished I hadn't because after that first wash; it was about 80% lighter and more of a blue than dark indigo:( they also got really soft. the way I washed those was a cold wash and hang dry. After scotch gaurd; they are now crisp again, but fadding in a mass instead of crease wear..

http://www.designwrk.com/

[dickhead]

I personally dun recommend trying to speed up the process with sandpaper or any chemicals as it won't be as natural as the natural process itself. If you know what I mean.

Be patient! Just wait! It's worth it! Also, when washing, do not use too much soap or don't use soap at all if it's not that dirty as the soap washes out the dye even faster.

For me personally it's not just about the smell but it's uncomfortable if you're wearing a piece of garment that's filled with dried sweat and dead skin cells in them! It makes me itch as well!

I hate everything and everyone.

[futuretalk]

yeah, it's disgusting really...this coming from a person who sweats a lot in his jeans coz I'm really active and walk A LOT in the city everyday! Apart from that I guess I have bigger sweat glands or something. I use febreeze too but only if it's not too dirty and I need to wear em again soon and have no time to wash and dry them.

Personally, no offense to anyone but I've always hated pre-treated jeans with artificial whiskers etc...they look fake, unnatural and ugly and the hiked price tag isn't worth it at all to me! I have a sharp eye and good observation skills and can tell in an instant if a pair of jeans has real signs and marks of wear o if it's a pre-treated off the shelf one. But then again, it's not really hard to tell at all and I'm sure many people out there can tell too. And yes, I'm including all the really expensive brands as well that "try to make it look as real as possible" in the treatment process. Sorry, it still looks wack to me.

[remi123]

looking for a contact to make denim in china

need fabric (japanese looking), contractor and authentic washer who is up on the newest

finishing - handsanding, tacking, scraping, etc

anyone have any names?

[ladyluxe]

hi there i am a stutdent studying international fashion. i am currently working on a project about global sourcing.

has any one any views on why you should source cheap denim from the follwoing countries:

China, Turkey, Hong Kong, and Pakistan

and what the advantages and disadvantges the countries have?

[ringring]

When sourcing denim or any other goods one has to bear in mind the following:

1. Price: including shipping, quotas and import taxes.

2. Lead times: both for sampling and production.

3. Quality:

4. Reliabilty. Whether the company in the country you are dealing with, is able to process your order in the agreed timescale.

China, Turkey, Hong Kong & Pakistan all have different selling points, depending on where you are, what you can afford and which company you are dealing with. (eg. If you are selling mainly to a high priced European market and are using european denims, then Turkey may be best because of it's physical location to Europe. If your market is mainly Asian and you are using Japanese or chinese fabrics, then China may be a better option for the same reason).

[ladyluxe]

in my module i have to create a report which outlines an investigation

into an area of global product supply. i have to evidence an

understanding of the issues of choice in country of origin and the

particular characteristics of denim that i wish to produce.

i need show evidence of research into types of manufacture, countries product

capabilities communication of detail, specific methods of manufacture

for denim. Details of costs, quality and

logistics for denim need to be described. i am going to base my sereach on New Look Retailer- so its the lower end of the market, so i thought turkey, china, and pakistan would be suitable to the cheaper denim. do you have any information you can help me wiyth regarding this?

[ladyluxe]

do you know if turkey, pakistan, china produce their own denim? or do they out source?

do you know the lead times for the above countries? or do you know where i can source this information

[rhythmandsound]

Quote: Personally, no offense to anyone but I've always hated pre-treated jeans with artificial whiskers etc...they look fake, unnatural and ugly

amen. people are gonna look back and laugh someday. totally wack

Edited by rhythmandsound on Mar 8, 2005 at 07:44 PM

[ringring]

Quote:

do you know if turkey, pakistan, china produce their own denim? or do they out source?

do you know the lead times for the above countries? or do you know where i can source this information

--- Original message by ladyluxe on Mar 8, 2005 06:54 AM

Yes, each of those countries produce denim.

Lead times vary from denim company to denim company, depending on demand. Anything from 30-90 days just for the denim fabric ( Sometimes lead times can be even longer), then you have to sew and wash.

[Guest]

Quote: ringring - You can speed up the process with a bit of fine sandpaper. Just rub lightly the thighs, knees and creased areas - you can do this whilst you have the jeans on from a sitting position.

i did just that and i thought i was wacked [at that time and maybe now? and

i was a 'blue infected freak' when doing this...] it was a bit rough on the surface at first,

think i've put too much pressure on the rubbing but after wearing it for a while,

the sanded area softens and got dirtier and darker. the result was ok. not to what i'd expected...

realising that, nothing beats the actual worn fade. anyhow just did it out of curiosity.

[ladyluxe]

does any one know the laed times for chin, turkey, and pakistan to the uk shipping? can anyone think of the strength, weakness, opportunities, and threats turkey, china, and pakistan have please?

[hifashion]

lead times are really gonna depend on quantity, if they have stock fabric that you are using or if you need special fabrics, you need to contact them, that is only way you will know. first you need a sample. also think of where you live and what is closer to you, that may help