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what 501s are these?

ninja07

By ninja07
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ninja07

ninja07

Posted
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Hi folks

Am new here.....need some help what with my limited knowledge of jeans.

Got these Levis 501 selvage at some local shop and thought they seem a little bit different.....some interesting details, like the trim on the coin pocket, different rear belt loop, pocket rivets with word 'levis' and the gold buttons on the fly.

Does anyone here have a clue what these are? Just wanted to know if I have found a pair of junk or something more worthy than that...nevertheless, I think they are awesome; love the wash and the denim is sooo clean, no tears, stain marks whatsoever.

Any insight appreciated. Thanks!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/P1010400.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/P1010401.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/P1010392.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/P1010395.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/P1010396.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/P1010399.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/P1010400.jpg

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cultpop 0217

cultpop 0217

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i wouldnt say those are definately fakes. i have seen similar 501s and the tag in particular looks authentic. levis has been making 501s forever and there are bound to be some odd balls out there. is there any way you can post a pic of the inside tag(s)? it would go a long way towards pinning these down. i have a pair of levis that are from some point in the early to mid 90's that were made in belgium and have a few of the details that yours do. but even if they are fake they look like great jeans and if they fit you should consider yourself lucky.

edit: wow eight months later look how wrong i was.

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ninja07

ninja07

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Thanks cultpop. I flipped the jeans inside out, here's some pics of the inside tags....

sorry I still can't make them show up on the post.....someone help? Thanks!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/DSCF0053.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/DSCF0052.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/DSCF0056.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f45/victorlee07/Levis%20501s/DSCF0058.jpg

so what do you guys think?

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Paul T

Paul T

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Sorry Cultpop, but the history of selvage model 501s, original and repro, is very well-documented. Levi's have good archives which contain nothing resembling this. Completely untypcial features like selvage on the coin pocket to me are indisputable evidence that this is fake. One could look at further details (the inside of the rivets for example) which are particularly hard to fake, but that's un-necessary here. The two-horsse badge and extra selvage detailing are dead giveaways.

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cultpop 0217

cultpop 0217

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Sorry Cultpop, but the history of selvage model 501s, original and repro, is very well-documented. Levi's have good archives which contain nothing resembling this. Completely untypcial features like selvage on the coin pocket to me are indisputable evidence that this is fake. One could look at further details (the inside of the rivets for example) which are particularly hard to fake, but that's un-necessary here. The two-horsse badge and extra selvage detailing are dead giveaways.

--- Original message by Paul T on Jan 28, 2006 07:15 AM

sorry paul t, very well aware of the history of 501's thank you but i dont have access to the levis archive like you clearly do. icon_smile_wink.gif

first thing i would like to say is please dont assume because i just started posting here i dont know what im talking about. ive been a levis freak much longer than superfuture (or internet access for that matter) has been around and there are much better sources of info than online message boards.

levis made 501's for nearly 15 years after the redlines went bye in the early 80's before making any real "repros". for most of that time very few people outside of the rockabilly scene knew or cared about details like selvedge.

in fact for many years you could walk into the flagship store here in chicago and custom design a pair of jeans with your choice of model, cut, rivet color etc... and DENIM. who knows what combos came out of this situation. dont assume youv'e seen every variation of a jean that has been immensely popular for decades and has been sold and manufactured all over the world.

i think its entirely more plausible and possible that levis made a strange selvedge 501 ( that you personally just haven't come across) during the past 2 decades than-what?-- someone (with access to genuine hardware) decided to knock off 501s and make them of a much much higher quality than real levis were at the time?

having said that and after seeing the inside tags i would have to say that these do still look authentic. or should i say i see no evidence they are not. the inside tag is identical (aside from the specific numbers) to many pairs i have and if they are fake they did a great job judging by THE INSIDE OF THE RIVETS that bear the levis & strauss stamp. the back two horse leather patch is also identical to those ive seen (although ive not seen them on 501's).

i cant really be sure without holding them in my mitts but i dont think they look like fakes. just my opinion not trying to start a fight.

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Jan 29, 2006 at 10:02 PM

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Jan 30, 2006 at 12:32 AM

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cultpop 0217

cultpop 0217

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"but i dont have access to the levis archive like you clearly do..."

Oh. So you haven't realised the guy HAS had access to the Levi's archive?

--- Original message by Busted Seam on Jan 29, 2006 10:46 PM

i dont know if he has seen the archives or not BUT just because he has seen these mystical and all knowing archives before does not make these jeans fake. (no disrespect. i would cut off a limb to see inside the vaults icon_smile_wink.gif

the archive can't possibly have everything ever in it and to my eye (and some others) the details look legit and the fact that they are of a higher quality than most 501s seems to indicate that, although they are anomalous, they may in fact be genuine.

im not trying to be confrontational i just think that you cant eliminate these just because you havent seen anything like them before. i know paul t has seen and owned lots of vintage levis and repros but that doesnt account for the wide variety of finishes and variations in the past 20 years, especially before people were paying attention to things like single stitch and selvedge.

im trying to be objective.

the hardware looks genuine. the denim looks authentic. if they are fake that inside care tag was carefully removed from a post redline pair of 501s and they put in an incredible amount of work on details most would not notice until fairly recently (fake or not id say these jeans have been around a while).

i know that some early reproduction selvedge levis (pre lvc) were available in some european markets like the u.k. and france way before they were available in the u.s. i remember trying to get a hold of a pair. i had read about them in overseas rockabilly magazines like the late and great french Continental Restyling. $300 but the denim wasn't as good as some of the japanese brands popping up like evis they said. they also mentioned spotting some really great japanese fakes.

but these dont look like they are trying to be 40's or 50's repros.

like i said i dont know if they are real or fake for certain but i dont see any evidence that they're fake and some evidence that they are real so until i have more to go on that's my humble opinion.

Edited by cultpop 0217 on Jan 30, 2006 at 12:50 AM

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Paul T

Paul T

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yes, I have seen the archives, both jeans and paperwork. Levi's actually keep a detailed list of every jean that was ever produced in the US (and remember, that is where it is claimed these jeans were made). PM me if you want details.

The selvage on the coin pocket alone is a clear indication that these are fakes made in Thailand. Search here and you'll find plenty of other similar examples. When Levi's produced reissues with non-standard or incorrect features, these instantly became notorious - for instance, the inaccuracy of the first Capital E reissues - so to argue that much more radically different 501 jeans like this could be produced, and there would be no record of it, is simply untenable.

The only selvage Levi's reissues that predated the LVC were the Capital E reissues of 1991 produced in valencia, and a run of Japanese reissues using fabric from Kurabo from around 1987. Do look through some of the information on this site, about Thai fakes, and about Levi's reissues.

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cultpop 0217

cultpop 0217

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yes, I have seen the archives, both jeans and paperwork. Levi's actually keep a detailed list of every jean that was ever produced in the US (and remember, that is where it is claimed these jeans were made). PM me if you want details.

The selvage on the coin pocket alone is a clear indication that these are fakes made in Thailand. Search here and you'll find plenty of other similar examples. When Levi's produced reissues with non-standard or incorrect features, these instantly became notorious - for instance, the inaccuracy of the first Capital E reissues - so to argue that much more radically different 501 jeans like this could be produced, and there would be no record of it, is simply untenable.

The only selvage Levi's reissues that predated the LVC were the Capital E reissues of 1991 produced in valencia, and a run of Japanese reissues using fabric from Kurabo from around 1987. Do look through some of the information on this site, about Thai fakes, and about Levi's reissues.

--- Original message by Paul T on Jan 30, 2006 02:11 AM

paul t.

thank you for the lively debate and for the knowledge you have dropped. if you recognize the markings of a fake then i am in no position to argue. i have seen a few fakes in my day and these blow them away and my clearly less trained eye could not discern the tell tale signs you picked out. i would like to thank you for indulging my banter and look forward to further discussion in the um (super) future.

p.s. anyone know where i can get my hands on some thai 501 knock-offs?

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rnrswitch

rnrswitch

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Here is another pair of those jeans. These are dry though. Probably get them for fairly cheap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-LEVIS-BIG-E-LOT-501XX-JEANS-REDLINE-SELVEDGE_W0QQitemZ8379553027QQcategoryZ52392QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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rnrswitch

rnrswitch

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That's a great way of putting it. Those jeans are soooo selvedge it's ridiculous.

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