Sunrise muddyed jeans/On mud dying in general

[Hendodo]

ughhh. the stuff under the bucket is probably some sorta mold/rust hybrid o.O

[duck sauce]

ahw man, that would make the machine unusable for all future clothes, if you got a hose, you could spray it down or even use a river.

or you can sneak it into a laundromat, in some kind of airtight container

[raWorkshop]

Bucket with soap is the only option. Get a respirator and some butcher gloves.

[klue]

leave it hanging in a tree for rainstorm and the'll be fresh enough for the club

[Akira]

Hmmm, so you just mash the persimmons and jeans together in a bucket and sun dry after? How long do you need to leave the garment in the mash for?

I'll probably do this, along with walnut dying, sometime early fall. I couldn't find an exact date for the availability of persimmons, but I'm assuming it's around mid-fall?

Preferably unripe persimmons and you have to ferment the juice... I don't know if this would work but this seems like a viable option if you don't want the hassle (kinda pricey though)

http://www.kakishibu.co.jp/home/seizo-e.html This link says it takes years to ferment... might not want to wait that long lol (although I don't know how much it'll effect the final product, I think it gets darker with time)

http://02a9443.netsolstores.com/kakishibupersimmonjuice.aspx

http://www.kakishibui.com/products.html

http://kakishibuusa.com/

Edit: http://www.weavezine.com/winter2008/wz_wi08_ChrisConrad.php has instructions you might want to take a look at

[ringring]

UPDATE

LOOK AT WHAT WAS UNDER THE TUB WHEN I MOVED IT. WHAT THE SHIT! im not touching that. i dont even know what the fuck it is. ringxring will know.

I think you have found the missing third nipple that Q gave to Bond for his impersonation of Francisco Scaramanga

Did you rinse the jeans clean? How did they come out?

[ringring]

Hmmm, so you just mash the persimmons and jeans together in a bucket and sun dry after? How long do you need to leave the garment in the mash for?

I'll probably do this, along with walnut dying, sometime early fall. I couldn't find an exact date for the availability of persimmons, but I'm assuming it's around mid-fall?

As Akira noted, you'd preferably require unripe persimmons for their higher tannin content, but I think it's a case of the more you dip them, the more intense colour you'll achieve. That is, the process of rubbing in the persimmon juice, sun drying, then rinsing would need to be repeated, probably over days.

I don't think you'd necessarily need to ferment the juice for years, as that process is for producing highly concentrated colorant for commercial use.

- I just clicked on Akira's last link. Very good : http://www.weavezine.com/winter2008/wz_wi08_ChrisConrad.php

I hope you keep us updated if you do go ahead and try the persimmon and walnut dyeing.

[nixon]

Thanks so much Akira and ringring! That cleared up all my questions, now comes waiting until fall :/

[Akira]

Definitely document it, sounds like a great project (crinkling them up like the last link's scarves would make for a very unique and untraditional pair of jeans)

[Bigyen]

Hows this project going? At what stage is it now, still soaking in the mix or being aired out to diffuse the stank?

[dralfonzo]

well guys, the only reason that I havn't posted any final updates is that I ended up with probably the most boring and uninspiring results. I hand washed the jeans and tee after pulling them out the skankbucket, after washing they still stunk to high heaven so I gave them a light machine wash and they returned to looking EXACTLY the same as before they went into the mud dye. Even the tee shirt looks whiter than escobars nostrils, so thats th only reason i never bothered posting pics.

Sorry for the disappointment!

[Bigyen]

Hey Man, you gave it your best.

[AdamKerchman]

loved reading through all the pages, seeing the entire process. Unfortunate that it didn't work, but hey - there's something to be learned from every failure.

I may do something similar with some of my older jeans. This is really interesting to me

[spudeey]

A similar way is without the mud and just metal. The rust creates a yellow tint that could be cool

[ringring]

Dralfonso - shame it didn't work out, but many thanks for the journey.

[cabl3]

That was a decent project, but I think if you had used something like steel wool instead of nails, your solution would have actually attained an exponentially higher ferrous content...at least enough to have done some damage to the jeans. I'm willing to give this a go. Gonna buy the stuff tomorrow....now to find a suitable guinea pig for this.

Ringring, reading your posts is an overflow of knowledge to take in..almost too much to keep up with in one sitting..lol. Very informative, thanks. (especially when it gets all technical about the ryukyu and diff kinds of indigo leaves...I was researching a few months back on that, and trying to find a source to buy different kinds of indigo leaves...in the end i never really looked actually bought any, but i do remember being confused because of how many different kinds of leaves could be used for indigo dyeing, of course ryukyu ai was my first option...then there was the option of buying raw leaves and "indigo cake"...i saved all these links in some emails...maybe i'll post em.)

[zissou]

^WOuldn't the indigo leaves need to be fresh? I'm right in the middle of an indigo project using woad leaves. It was a fun but very labor intensive project to get very little indigo. I think I have enough indigo to make about a gallon pot of dye, so now I need to decide what to make with it.

I wish Christophe would put up some photos of this CPO post-wash

[cabl3]

ohh yea of course...my mistake, they were actually seeds to grow the plant itself.

[zissou]

Man, that's serious! You'd run into all kinds of issues related to what can grow where, etc. Are you in a tropical climate? As far as I know, true indigo (Indigofera tinctoria) grows only in the tropics. Here in the western US, dyer's woad (Isatis tinctoria) grows well (a little too well- it's an exotic invasive), but the indigo yield, as I discovered, is much lower. Funny thing is, woad became a terrible invasive plant in the US because people planted it in their garden to harvest for indigo. Watch out!

[cabl3]

haha, thats crazy...people like us.

and yea, I'm in texas so the climate I'd say is fine for the plant.

is that the only indigo plant that would fare well here?

the heat here is very dry, not humid at all...I dont know how that would affect it....

[zissou]

No idea about the plants, but I think true indigo has a far higher yield than anything else. You might call TX Cooperative Extension. There very well could be issues with introducing plants.

I'll post up pics of my project once I actually make something.

[emu og]

So are we gonna see the post soak pics?

Or did he die from some disease he created in the process?

[dralfonzo]

Man, that's serious! You'd run into all kinds of issues related to what can grow where, etc. Are you in a tropical climate? As far as I know, true indigo (Indigofera tinctoria) grows only in the tropics. Here in the western US, dyer's woad (Isatis tinctoria) grows well (a little too well- it's an exotic invasive), but the indigo yield, as I discovered, is much lower. Funny thing is, woad became a terrible invasive plant in the US because people planted it in their garden to harvest for indigo. Watch out!

would you know where this plant was avaliable to buy in the UK? And also, would a greenhouse environment be sufficient for it to grow or does it need very high humidity etc to survive?

[zissou]

^No idea, really. You could probably grow it in a greenhouse, but you would need a lot of it. Then again, woad grows freely in the UK. It's just a matter of getting out in the spring and harvesting the leaves. Although, it is a lot of work.

[dralfonzo]

Bought some Indigofera tinctoria seeds yesterday. I know i'm starting at the wrong time of year but going to germinate them indoors then greenhouse them. Hopefully in about 3 months time I should have a decent starting point to extract the dye and try it out on some things.

I was thinking about overdyeing my old levi's denim shirt, and also try dying some cotton tees and some natural yarn. I understand that the different materials need different mordanting preperation techniques (treating the fabric with metallic compound). It's a bit more work preparing fabric made from plant fibers (such as cotton) compared to fabric from protein fibers (such as wool), but it's not overly complicated. I will put some updates in here in a few months time. Hopefully will have more luck this time!

[fre-co]

I have an indigo plant in my garden.... isn't it a long fermentation process before you get indigo dye?

[dralfonzo]

not that bad if you prepare it right, which is what I didn't do last time. You need to mordant it properly before hand, with cotton this means 12-24 hours in an alum solution, then the same time in a tannic acid solution, then back for another 12-24 hours in the alum solution. Once thats done the actual dyeing process does not take very long, you can leave it overnight.

this book is good for tips;

http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Dyes-Dyeing-Formerly-Titled/dp/0486226883/ref=pd_sim_b_4

[fre-co]

what about extracting and preparing the dye, how do you get from green leaves to blue vats?

[pepperdanky]

upon exposure to air, the reduced, water-soluble form of indigo (which is a yellowish color) becomes oxidized to the unsoluble blue form

[ringring]

DrAlfonso - I admire your willingness for further experiments with natural dyeing. I hope you keep us updated.

September's here, and I was taking a walk through some deciduous parkland yesterday and noticed a proliferation of fallen acorn gall nuts. It's a reminder again of the oak tree's role in natural dyeing (and the tanning of leather).

Oak gall married with an iron mordant was the common method to obtain black. And latterly overdyed, or 'topped' over a blue woad base - so overdyeing your Levi's shirt has some historical resonance

Good luck.