opnions on streetwear

[pfarside]

Just wanted to get an opnion from the public in regards to the streetwear market. do u think it's dying out ? or do you think companies need to re-invent the look? what do u guys think of older labels such as recon,ssur,supreme,stussy and what new lbels do you guys like outhere right now?

this sat! super sample sale 50-75%off ,Highend street and fashion . vendors include situationormal,Kendo,greyone,Mason and more over 50 vendors and come meet the designers. at the avalon in Hollywood www.findbazaar.com

[misteraven]

The streetwear market is going nowhere. It may have it's ups and downs like anything else, but it'll continue in one form or another so long as some people continue to avoid shopping mall brands.

As far as up and coming brands, I (personally) see nothing currently that looks like it'll be a dominating force anytime soon. Some nice t-shirts here and there and an occassional manufactured piece worth looking at twice, but there's always something that just keeps be from reaching for my wad. I did pick up some of the UXA releases and tried to get into aNYthing, but just couldn't sell myself on it. Saw some nice stuff from Rogan and PRPS, but I didn't buy very deep into either. What I do think is that BBC is going to skip over the elitest niche market and jump straight into being some bullshit commercialzed hip hop brand, but they'll make millions in the process which I'm guessing is the goal anyhow. Bape seems to finally be on the down slope (I know most will say it's been done for years), though occassionally they do something to revitalize interest. I've been hearing murmurs about a recent Nigo interview in DUB in which he totally disrespects/dismisses his customers, and with a major store planned in NYC, maybe we'll see Bape finally become a trendy hip hop brand as many have predicted. Seems like a natural progression seeing as how he helping steer BBC. I'd think most people are waiting around hoping for a breath of fresh air by way of a couple new compelling brands. I'd love to see some more imports, particulrly some of the UK stuff as well.

But that's just one person's opinion so take it for what it's worth.

[gentleman]

yr totally spot on.

ive been interested in this stuff since duffer really broke big in 98/99 or so. these days, the only things i like are from noah, prps and the occasional something from red dot...but its more about the quality and fit of the clothes than design or graphics for me...it always was.

in nyc, there's always been this dividing line between hip hop/street clothes and more designer, cool stuff...i was always in the latter so stuff like recon and bape never really did much for me. bape is really the new evisu for the mainstream hip hoppers and to be honest, im hard-pressed to justify spending all of this money on a shirt these days.

rogan is okay but sort of got hijacked by the hollywood/LA crowd. duffer has some nice suits but their casual stuff is crap for years. i liked aurora borealis and hel is (whatever) from the oeuf guy but im not sure what happened because i cant find it here.

[Dolo]

a little off topic BUT... Recon has done nothing but rehash Camo prints and silhouette of Tanks and Snipers over Olive green and Tan for god knows how long... give it a rest, it was corny from the start.... woooo military, scary!!! I got my $300 kicks on all guerilla style! Ssur is right up there with Recon... I haven't seen so much corny and cliche graphic use since "Jnco", "Fuct" and "Serial Killer" tees

At least Stussy and Bape try to re-invent themselves every-so often however minor the innovations in look may be. sometimes they fail, sometimes they hit.. but at least they try

also am I the only one who doesnt Like Rogan's?? You people are telling me you're comfortable spending $300 for current buzz on a pair of jeans that you'll hate in a years time because of that stupid side seam that crops all the way into the middle of the pat legs front (which seems to happen on most cuts i've seen)?? Has nobody learned that the only way jeans survive is by basically sticking to a classic design and tweaking it here and there .. any major deviation from it might look cool at first will only be embarrissing to wear a few seasons down the line. Might as well go on ebay and hunt down a pair of Kani jeans instead.

I suppose this is more of a Rant.

Edited by Dolo on Aug 20, 2004 at 11:24 AM

[MyMindSpray]

i think / hope you'll see a movement towards smaller independent designers and labels...but all major players in the game see a downtime, there are peaks and valleys and i guess time will tell which labels can make it through...Stussy had it's downfall, but found a resurgence, just as i'm sure BAPE will once they fall off for a bit...everything goes in cycles...right now, everyone is riding on the big design/art explosion, so you have tees etc blowing up left, right and centre...i'd like to see designers and labels experiment with actual cut and sew pieces...i'd like to see these lines concentrate on style more than print...produce a couple of nice sweaters instead of churning out dozens or senseless tees...but...this is only my opinion...

[marine_corpse]

Quote:

i think / hope you'll see a movement towards smaller independent designers and labels...but all major players in the game see a downtime, there are peaks and valleys and i guess time will tell which labels can make it through...Stussy had it's downfall, but found a resurgence, just as i'm sure BAPE will once they fall off for a bit...everything goes in cycles...right now, everyone is riding on the big design/art explosion, so you have tees etc blowing up left, right and centre...i'd like to see designers and labels experiment with actual cut and sew pieces...i'd like to see these lines concentrate on style more than print...produce a couple of nice sweaters instead of churning out dozens or senseless tees...but...this is only my opinion...

--- Original message by MyMindSpray on Aug 20, 2004 11:50 AM

^

agreed. i've always felt that everything was about the little guy in the industry-->mainstream vs underground. I find that a lot of the more successful brands out there continue to take the piss with their product. they either market it as 'next level shit' or they slap the limited edition tag on something to sell it. either your shit is good or it isn't. as Dolo mentioned, these companies that continue to rehash the same themes without really doing anything new or innovative is quite depressing. I would rather buy a t-shirt from some unknown with a good idea than some name brand with shit graphics and unoriginal ideas.

if they move, kill 'em.

[gentleman]

i actually disagree with you guys on that point. one thing that's been turning me off is the glut of t-shirt labels sprouting up in every store. its like electronic music...it used to be good and then everyone realized they could do it and now you have a ton of it in the stores and its hard to find the good stuff.

while i like the idea of the little guy getting his piece of the pie, ive rarely found anything exciting by the smaller labels that pop up out of small apartment studios, etc...

[Dolo]

there really aren't that many T-shirt labels sprouting up. Most small ones don't survive their initial pressings and fade away, while a larger chunk of the others only appear new but if you trace back who's doing what you'll realize they're just vanity labels from other larger labels. And what's the difference how many sprout up? it's not like a CD where you have to buy it and then listen to it. It's pretty easy to walk into a store scan the display and judge if something is worth the money before you actually spend it. Unless of course you only buy clothes based on brand recognition and clout rather than substance. In that case just go to the Brand store or website and avoid the problem altogether

I don't know where you're shopping but I don't see very many stores inviting bedroom T-shirt labels inside unless it's an artist's fair. And of the acctual new fledgling indies that do make it into a store and survive a few seasons... there's what?? maybe 3 new ones through out the year per store??

Like I said before.. some of these just appear new but aren't.

for example, Triko just showed up first ar places like Prohibit out of nowhere in NYC last Fall, then slowly branched into the other boutiques. At first it looked like a new Denim maker trying to break into the industry, But in acctuality Triko is owened by Mecca whow as using the name as a clean slate to get into the boutique market. Obviously Triko isn't a bedroom brand and Mecca is a pretty big company, Im just using it to ilustrate an example of how alot of the new brands we see are just new imprints from other older labels or collectives. And this isn't exclusive to large manufactuers like Mecca, Other much much smaller brands work like this also. Think of how many brands are within the Ssur family unbrella and how many more keep sprouting up each season... I mean yeah they all have one main person spearheading each particulair brand but it's like a hydra and all the heads join back to one body within a definite collective style that more or less pulls the strings.

P.S. nothing against Triko jeans.. I actually like some of their cuts, washes and the thunderbolt. Just using them as an example.

Edited by Dolo on Aug 20, 2004 at 03:06 PM

Edited by Dolo on Aug 20, 2004 at 03:08 PM

Edited by Dolo on Aug 20, 2004 at 03:12 PM

[think]

Hello all.

Long time reader, first time responder. I was just glancing through the posts for interesting tidbits. This one was particularly interesting to me being that I run a bedroom-based tshirt line myself. Really, truly independent (if that's not competely obvious): Not a wholly owned subsidiary of anyone but me. I swear. Anyway, I figured you folks might be interested in knowing about my company. It's very new/small but I've been making shirts for a number of years and am really psyched about the stuff I'm putting out there now: hopefully you will agree.

So now for the *almost* totally shameless plug:

Ørigin

http://www.0rigin.com (btw, spelled with a zero)

Cheers.

[raijin]

i really have to agree about the fact that more cut/sewn shirts would be better.

printed t-shirts are just boring at this point, do something interesting with the design of the garment!, thats what fashion is all about, not putting some retarded slogan or recycled image on a shirt.

be creative and original.

im generally moving away from american streetwear brands because of the lack of originality.

it seems like the t-shirt companies sprouting up aren't really doing anything new or interesting.

oh, and my opinion on those brands is a big thumbs down.

Edited by raijin on Aug 20, 2004 at 04:37 PM

[pfarside]

I really respect everyones opnions. I personally feel there are too many tee companies and thery are tired. I feel brands like Noah,Prps ,Rogan are trying to break the stereotype of what streetwear can be. I feel alot of these urban tee companies take themselves way too seriously with all the associations and who you know and bitching about who has a better tee line. if the designers are listening outthere, let's focus on quality!!

this sat! super sample sale 50-75%off ,Highend street and fashion . vendors include situationormal,Kendo,greyone,Mason and more over 50 vendors and come meet the designers. at the avalon in Hollywood www.findbazaar.com

[Guest]

Quote:

i really have to agree about the fact that more cut/sewn shirts would be better.

printed t-shirts are just boring at this point, do something interesting with the design of the garment!, thats what fashion is all about, not putting some retarded slogan or recycled image on a shirt.

be creative and original.

im generally moving away from american streetwear brands because of the lack of originality.

it seems like the t-shirt companies sprouting up aren't really doing anything new or interesting.

oh, and my opinion on those brands is a big thumbs down.

Edited by raijin on Aug 20, 2004 at 04:37 PM

--- Original message by raijin on Aug 20, 2004 04:36 PM

to be fair, most companies out there (including those from Japan and the UK) aren't doing anything original, so you can't specifically say it's just US companies that are rehashing the same designs. but I will give credit to companies like Answer, Tonite, Gimme 5 & Flying Fortress for at least keeping their designs interesting.

and to add to what dolo said, a lot of the smaller labels that seem to be sprouting from out of nowhere are those that already have their feet in the collective doors of established companies. do you really think brands like Priceless would've stood a chance in the streetwear market if 1)they weren't from NYC and 2)they weren't part of Union? I doubt it. these companies exist because they're riding the coattails of their friends, not because they can but because they need to. otherwise they'd be pegged as some lame parody company that belongs in a Spencer's gift shop. It really saddens me when someone puts a new company up on a pedestal and proclaims them to be the 'next big thing' when in fact they're not, especially if it's someone that's being given visibility by their famous friends. then there are companies like 2K who claim themselves to be anti-mass marketing....but this is the same company whose product you find in practically every boutique/online shop. anti-mass martketing eh? i'm surprised 2K is still around. they make inferior product and they seem to be trying to corner the market by recruiting every up-and-coming designer out there to produce a tee for them.

so yeah, I will always be for the underdog. it's unfortunate that there aren't more shops carrying designs by unknowns. it's this sort of one-dimensional thinking that keeps the crap name brands alive and the little guy with actual talent struggling to get name recognition. I don't care if you're from NYC, LA, Tokyo or fucking Kansas, if you're designs stink then you're designs stink.

[MyMindSpray]

All good points...

I guess the bottom line is that quality is becoming more and more important...with all the different labels out nowadays, it's quality that sets oneline apart from another...let's face it, in alot of cases, it's the tees that introduce people to "streetwear", but it's the other pieces that keep these people loyal...show me a company that takes pride in cutting and materials, and i'll stick with them till the end...

[BoardC3]

I definitely agree with the whole quality statements, but design is still very very important. I just bought the Rogan Victory shirt in blue, which i love, not only because its incredibly comfortable but also because it has a pretty cool design. The majority of Rogan stuff I can not buy because i cant bring myself to spend $55 on a tee shirt with a bad design. I had a pair or Rogan jeans that i returned because although they were comfortable the design was weak. Recently I bought a pair of jeans by a brand called 1921 which are by far the coolest/most comfortable jeans i have ever bought, They were only $125 canadian also (bought it on a trip to toronto). I was amazed to find that these were made out of better material than the Rogan's and also had much better design and attention to detail. I own pairs of jeans from Rogan Diesel Seven Levis Premium and many others and Ive payed more than i did for these but they are by far the best.

I think that companies are going to have to start doing more to justify their price. A good design on a bad quality tee isnt enough and a bad design on a nice quality tee isnt enough either. With streetwear getting so much bigger recently I think that we should be seeing some major improvements in the next few years. Supreme has built up a fan base but I cant see it holding it with such weak designs recently.

Things have to change and because they have to, they will.

[inoki]

I'm european, so what i think could be different from US guys.

I always loved stussy, but NOW the only thing that i want are the CUSTOMADE series.

I like Maharishi, but the real new things is the new japanese brands: visvim, neighborhood, undercover, WTaps, goodenough, URMA (ex let it ride)..they put in all the production exellent quality and I real looking for the limited ed..because i like to be different!

gimme five sometimes do something as pam and silas..

but this is my opinion..

respect

[MyMindSpray]

i gotta agree with Inoki....japanese brands are where it's at right now...i think there's just a higher level of appreciation for quality in japan...labels like WTaps, Neighborhood and Undercover, man, they got their shit together...i think the perfect example is a company like Levis...theyr'e still huge in japan with their premium stuff, why??....quality...that's why they're still a staple in europe and japan...nuff said...

[Dolo]

I think it's safe to say that Levi's are a staple everywhere (the U.S., Europe or Asia)and will always be so. they go through fluxes of super popularity but they never ever become played out... they're Levi's, and when every denim trend fades they're still right there with the most perfect traditional cut to weather through until the next denim fad.

anyone who disagrees is being silly.

[JUPAFETT]

THE ONLY REASON STREET FASHION WAS CREATED IN THE LATE 80'S EARLY 90'S [FJ,XL,STUSSY] WAS THAT IT WAS AN EXPESSION OF WHAT WAS RELATIVELY NEW OR CURRENT FOR THE TIMES. IT WAS ALSO A BIT OF A REVOLT OF WHAT WAS GOING ON IN TERMS OF THE HIGH END HOUSES THAT DICTATE WHAT'S

"IN STYLE". THE EARLY BRANDS WERE LIVING OFF OF THE STREET SCENE, SKATEBOARDING, GRAFF, ETC. WHEN THE JAPANESE GOT IT A NEW SURGE OR CHAPTER HIT WITH TOYS, MICRO BRANDS AND THE DOUBLE LABEL CRAZE. WHEN THE EUROS GOT IT MADE ALOT OF REFERENCES BACK TO THE ROOTS OF MODERN WEAR WHICH BASICALLY LOOKS LIKE RALPH LAUREN WITH A NEW TWIST. EVERYTHING UP TO THIS POINT HAS GROWN INTO WHAT IS BASICALLY THE MAINSTREAM STANDARD. TODAY ONE CAN WALK INTO AN URBAN OUTFITTERS BUY DUNKS AND A GRAPHIC TEE OF MEDIUM DESIGN AESTHETIC. RIGHT NOW IT'S A RACE TO SEE WHO HAS THE MOST OR HARDEST TO FIND ITEMS MARKETED TOWARDS THIS GENRE. WHICH IS A FUTILE PURSUIT AND A GAME NEVER TO BE WON. NOTHING IS SPECIAL AND EVERYTHING IS WATERED DOWN DUE TO THE MASSES OF LIKE PRODUCT. THE MAJORS STUSSY, APE, SUPREME, ETC. ARE MAINTAINING INTEREST DUE TO THIER HERITAGE. THE GARMENT QUALITY IS THAT OF A BUGLE BOY OR OLD NAVY. THE SCIENCE OF GARMENT PRODUCTION IS WRITTEN IN STONE, SO THERE'S NO NEW DISCOVERIES WITHIN THAT. THE FIELD IS SATURATED WITH BOUTIQUE THIS OR LIMTED THAT OR NIKE VS. WHOEVER. THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH SPLINTERING OFF OF THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT THAT IT'S GETTING REGURGITATED SEVERAL ROUNDS OVER. WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW WITH OUR STREET CULTURE IS THAT IT'S TURNING TO A MARKET BASE THAT HAS NEVER EXPERIENCED THIS LIFESTYLE AND HAS THE MONEY TO BLOW, THE URBAN HIP-HOP CONSUMER. VIDEO STYLISTS ARE PICKING FROM THE UNION'S AND THE LIKE AND BLASTING OUR LOOK TO THE WORLD. THE STUSSY'S WILL MAKE IT'S MONEY NOW THAT THE GWEN STEPHANI'S AND THE B2K'S ARE FOUND WEARING IT. HOWEVER, THIS SCENE HAS MATURED WITH THE MONEY IT GENERATES. IT WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AND THE AMOUNT OF MARKETED PRODUCT WILL ONLY GROW. THE LOWLY FOUNDER OF A SUPREME WILL BECOME A CEO OF THEIR BRAND PLUS SEVERAL UNDERNEATH IT. THE ONLY THING THAT COME OF THIS IS A GROUP OF NEW BRANDS THAT WILL REVOLT FROM WHAT WE HAVE TODAY.

AT THIS POINT YOU'RE TOO OLD AND/OR EDUCATED TO BE CONCERNED WITH BEING COOL. ALL THAT CAN HAPPEN IS THAT WHEN SOMETHING SUBSTANTIAL REALLY OCCURS AND CREATES AN NEW FORM, YOU'LL KNOW WHY IT HAPPENED AND WHERE IT CAME FROM. THE THING IS, WHERE IN THE LADDER WILL YOU BE? THE ONE'S MAKING IT OR THE ONE'S BUYING IT.

SHIT IS WACK

[onpoint]

Buying it

[savage]

I don't know anymore. if i see something i like i get it. i mean i go into all stores like ssur, supreme, recon, etc.. but lots of time i just look and leave. nobody get my money, cause nothin stands out. everyhthing looks the same. Kraft or Kraf* whatever the label name i found in Thailand has been the best i've seen a long time.

i got one T that says 'eat more rice bitch' with a picture of a girl eating rice and a gun to her head... that one gets ALL kinds of reactions.. and i know that nobody else has that one.. but i must of bought like 8 T's from that company + the best part is that they were like $10 each.

But i need to ask:

Does money influence the type of T's you buy?? Do you buy for design or for limited edition?

[JDS]

Inoki / MyMindSpray know where its at...

Hiroshi and Nigo are still the masters - they got their hands in all the fresh labels - Electric Cottage (though i think its over now - and wtf to the EC HTM's?), Headporter, Neighbourhood, Undercover, GDEH, Bape....

Also looking foward to the new Silas range...

Don't think high end streetwear is dead at all, don't think it ever will be.

[moto 6point5]

ONE TRUE SAXON and YOUMUSTCREATE always seem to be by far the best made items that i've bought. Lots more work seems to go into the design (other than just graphics) than other brands.

[misteraven]

saw a bbc shirt at nom de geurre (sp?). $100 for a t-shirt featuring a one color print of their clip-art looking boost of a logo. I don't care of it's hand spun by virgin girls during leap years using cotton from an extinct variety of plant, it's not worth it that. More power to them if they can come out of nowhere and tax people that hard from jump street.

[MyMindSpray]

the whole BBC thing is really worrying me...when i first heard pharrell was going to do his thing, i wasn't too impressed...but after hearing that nigo would be contributing, i decided to the give the project a chance...the results are pretty horrifying...the shoes are embarrassing and the tees are even worse...i've always liked BAPE, but let's face it, over the last few years, their tees have fallen off a bit...(their outerwear and sweats are still pretty good though)...and it looks like nigo has continued the trend in tees with BBC...$100 for a printed tee??...BBC is a perfect example of streetwear being BASTARDIZED...how do you justify a $100 price tag for a boring printed tee when companies like SNAFU are making interesting tees for half the price!!...it boggles the mind...once again it all comes back to quality, and companies like BBC are embarrassing themselves as well as trying to pull the wool over our eyes...i officially will be sleeping through their expected reign....

[JDS]

Word! I'll be sleeping too...

I can't believe that BBC / Ice is being distributed in all of the super cool boutiques... I seriously thought it was aimed at mass market - the mass market doesn't shop in these shops and I have seen not one positive remark made by anyone anywhere on any forum (ie the peeps who buy high end street from the boutiques).... so who the f**k is going to buy this shit?

[marine_corpse]

^

i'm guessing Japanese kids with lots of $ and no eye for good design will buy BBC. If it's got the Nigo seal of approval then they'll surely swarm to all the Bape stores and spend ridiculous amounts of money just so they can be 'cool'.

if they move, kill 'em.

[misteraven]

just out of curiosity... what other forums are you referencing? just asking since I haven't come across many with these types of topics.

(that was directed to bape007, but if anyone else has any url's they can recommend, please do.)

Edited by misteraven on Sep 2, 2004 at 06:21 AM

[raijin]

well i don't know if its so much our group thats going to buy bbc, but searching google for something unrelated i found a rap forum with everyone going wild about bbc. Not to mention pharell and nigo showed up on mtv showing those ugly ice creams..

[Dolo]

Yeah you guys forget that the mainstream Hip Hop market will probably eat up the BBC shirts like ice cream, excuse the pun. Jay-Z wears one somewhere... Bam, everyone is gonna start hunting to find one and most likely they'll just buy $20 bootlegs, but even that will give cred and recognition to the overpriced real tees.

I remmeber when Pharell wor ethat BBC shirt and Jay-Z wore that custom made Orchard street shirt in the "Frontin'" video... Hip Hop clothing sites and bootlegers everywhere were making and carrying fakes of those shirts for like $30 a pop and people were buying them like crazy back then. ANd these were people who a) have no clue who Nigo or Bape are and have never heard of Orchard Street... they just saw jigga in the tee and wanted one.

You forget that for $100, which when it boils down to isn't an astronomical amount of money (for a shitty T-shirt that cost about $4 to produce it is) and some idiost will drop that much on it just as a status symbol.

[JUPAFETT]

HIP HOP AND THE FASHION INDUSTRY DON'T MIX. ONCE YOUR BRAND BLOWS UP IT BLOWS OUT. THEN WHAT? START SOMETHING NEW? BECAUSE NO ONE IS GOING TO TOUCH YOUR SHIT AFTER THAT. AT LEAST AT THAT POINT YOU'LL BE ON A YACHT HAVING BOATDRINKS.

SHIT IS WACK