lee repros - cut/fit

[eldave04]

I have a bunch of questions about lees,

What is the difference between the 101 b/c/z ?

Which year is slimmest, and which is baggiest?

When were the rivets replaced by the bar tacks?

When did they replace the horse hide with the leather patch?

Thanks

[Paul T]

I'll have a go, don't know all these answers.

Don't know re c and b, z is zipper version.

50s (the Riders) are narrower fit; the 40s are baggy, but don't know how hair on hide and leather patch inter-relate. Both 30s and early 40s look pretty baggy to me, 1944 Riders have a narrower, more cowboy cut.

Only VERY early jeans had rivets, from the 1920s, and the ones I've seen all also had Levi's style arcuates and leather patch on the left.

Patches were leather intially, slightly different lettering, on the left, horsehide was wartime, frrom 1939 or earlier to 44. Then leather again 1944, once back cinch was dropped, and jeans were redesigned and called Riders.

Check on the Lee website for more information, will probably tell u differnece between c and b.

[giantreptile]

101"Z" (at least Lee Europe) are the slimmest, with single selvage and a surprisingly comfortable fit when raw.

[Paul T]

All Riders, from 1944 on, have a narrower cut, not unlike 1947 Levi's, and it's this cut the Euro Riders are based on.

INcidentally, Polish-made Riders, which look like single selvage, are not true selvage - they don't have the interwoven self edge. But I've seen that feautre on 50s Lees too, on one half of what looks like a double selvage.

[frideswide]

I saw some Japanese-made Riders in the Lee shop in Carnaby street. They look to be real single selvage, unlike the Polish ones.

But actually.. is single (half) selvage still selvage? I mean: is it normal selvage denim but just the pattern is laid out differently on the roll so that you only get the edge running down one side of the outseam? Or is it inherently different, if you see what i mean...

[Paul T]

Good question, but given that Lee moved to single selvage in the mid 50s, I reckon they were using selvage material, but just in a different cut, as you suggest.

And yes, all the Edwin-made Lee repros are selvage, very nice greenish denim, which is sanforized, so doesn't shrink as much as the European ones. I thought the previous euro ones were great, but they're now so cheapened I think you have little choice but to go for the Japanese ones.

[Ahlvahroe]

I was wondering how the pockets look on Repro Lee Models. They look a bit high so I was wondering if they just look high or if they are high. These are the ones that I was looking at just for reference http://www.rakuten.co.jp/klax-on/601805/655014 Thanks.

Edited by Ahlvahroe on Oct 16, 2005 at 06:22 PM

[takashi]

This chart may help -- scroll down a bit on the page to see comparison of some of the various Lee Japan (Edwin) repros:

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/americaya/570631/600947/601506/

There are of course many other Lee-type repros out of Japan, really too numerous to list.

[eldave04]

thanks for the chart

[Paul T]

All the Edwin-made reissues are excellent, generally made with more accuracy than the LVC models, and things like the pocket placement look perfect; thjey're all closely based on originals in Lee archives (which aren't anything like as big as those at Levi's).

The only shame is that they don't do a 1920s reissue, almost certainly because those early jeans, which look terrific, had a Levi's style arcuate that they wouldn't be able to get away with now - they also had a generally more Levi's-style look. Lee jeans also had a lot more variation than Levi's, things like the selvage details changed from year to year and not always consistently.

Practically everything on the chart, up to 1944, will have a baggier, more dungaree-style cut. The 52 jeans are close to a 1947 501, but will probably be less tapered round the thighs.

[Ahlvahroe]

Thank You for the chart but that is actually more detailed than what I was asking. I wanted to know how High the pockets are in relation to the jean. Some of the lee pockets look they are kissing the waistband, and that is a higher pocket position than I like to wear. Its a great chart and very descriptive pictures but not exactly what I needed, but thanks any way.

Edited by Ahlvahroe on Oct 15, 2005 at 02:48 PM

[Paul T]

The early Lee Euro sanforized 101Z jeans I have feautre pocket placement which is essentially the same as 501s. As far as I rememebr the Edwin 101Z is very similar. But I don't understand why you can't simply look at photos and decide yourself? Try lee.com and look for LEe originals or do some googling. This is the first line on google for Edwin 101Z... btw you can get a LOT better, higher contrast fade wiht these jeans than on these examples, this Nisshinbo denim is excellent.

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Milano/8492/report3.html

[petng]

I have a pair of jap 101b riders. They do not have the cinch back. They are suppose to be a baggy fit, but they are just as tight as my pair of euro 101z, but with a higher rise. If anything I feel they are 101z's with button ups not zips.