Learning to tell quality.

[kdh]

I'd really like to be able to pick up a piece of clothing and, irrespective of brand name, be able to tell if it's high quality and/or worth the money.

How does one go about learning this stuff. Are there good books in this regard?

[Corbin Law]

there is a great book, which would be called clicking on "Ring Ring"'s Name

and lookthing through all 600 or so of his posts

and you will learn everything there is to offer

chwa?

[Iambic Pentameter]

if we're talking about clothing in general and not just denim, then a good rule of thumb is to look at where the garment was made...if its a third world country, chances are the quality is not very high.

[thewhitefrankblack]

Being made in a first world country is a good indicator.

Ralph Lauren Purple Label is probably the highest-quality widely available brand I can think of.

[vinz]

I don't really buy high end stuff, so from my experience on normal items I would look at the details. What kind of buttons were used, how the finishing is like, are there tons of loose threads, quality of the fabric, how the stitching is like.

I also look at the materials listed on the tag.

www.youngestincharge.com

www.opticalweapons.com

[triniboy27]

I agree with most of what's been said so far in this post, i.e. looking at quality of materials, details, etc.

Totally disagree w/ the 'made in a third world' country comment. Most of the stuff out on the market is made in a third world country. Just because labour costs are cheaper over there doesn't necessarily mean the quality's any less. If a company is willing to pay for better quality, it can be (and is) achieved in third world countries.

In the same vein, shitty quality products can be made in the US.

[ringring]

I completely agree with Triniboy regarding production in so called 'third world countries'.

Quality standards are set by the brand (the buyer). If a particular factory in a particular country is unable to make goods to a standard that the brand accepts, then they won't produce there. If it gets as far as production and the production is sub-standard then the brand's QC will reject the goods (or ask for substantial damage payments).

As Triniboy said, ountries that have comparatively low labour costs can, and do, produce very high quality goods. The Powerbook I'm typing on was made in China, my iPod in Malaysia. No complaints about quality there - and QC standards must be much higher in computers than garments.

Regarding the original topic - I think it just takes time and experience. You have to look at a lot of goods, and to see the bad in order to appreciate the good and vice versa.

*Corbin. Thanks

[sarno]

Many high end designers have shifted their manufacturing to china. Whereas once the designation "Made in China" meant cheap crap...it's only so long before so much manufacturing is done there that the quality improves. In five years more than half the clothes you wear will be made there...and the quality will be good. All your sneakers are made there already.

I think quality is a much more subjective term than it seems at first. Dressing well is one part determining for oneself what is "quality" (is this worth what i'm spending?) ...and one part having the courage to go with what you like, regardless if everyone's wearing it or no one is. I think everyone's goal is the same--to have their clothes reflect how they feel, and how they feel to be reflected in their clothes. which is to say: unique, knowing, savvy, effortless...standing apart from the crowd while not appearing to need to. Being comfortable in one's skin always precedes being comfortable in one's clothes.

[giantreptile]

here's the stereotypes (applies to denim, et al):

made in usa: quality but shapeless.

made in japan: a really good copy.

made in china: counterfeit

made in italy: attention to detail (tailoring)

made in romania/bulgaria/portugal: gets around 'made in china' stigma, but same quality

[Iambic Pentameter]

I said it was a rule of thumb, not an absolute. There's exceptions to every rule, but I think the majority of the time my statement would hold up.

[Geowu]

of course there's the exception of the 'top-notch' clothing, hand-made, etc.

also the many of this type of leather goods.

that's something you won't find a 'made in china' tag in.

[johninger]

I think that feelings about bad quality associated with developing countries are a vestige of days gone by. In the past made in China was always a bad thing.

However, if you ask your grandparents about made in Japan post WWII then they'll say the same thing. We were just churning out rubbish and lots of it, mainly copies. But now look at Japan and our craftsmanship and technology is second to none.

Being from the manufacturing industry i think Chinese made stuff is becoming exceptional quality. In fact, a lot of you are wearing chinese made jeans. Remember the brands can put on made in Italy/Japan/US as long as they sew 10-20% (varies with each country) in those countries. So jeans come already made without say pockets sewn on. If they sew them on in Italy then it qualifies for italian made label.

Chinese manufacturers can pay their workers much less so they can afford to spend more time on each pair of jeans, which equals much better attention to detail. Anyone can sew a perfect garment if they have enough time...

I think main thing I would never buy chinese/vietnamese/indonesian made is because you are supporting an industry based on exploitation of its workers and the environment. Also, it won't be long till China absolutely dominates the manufacturing industry after starving the rest of the countries industries. Then they can name their price, where will we be then...

I hope indigo doesn't cause cancer...

[url=" http://www.imperial.st"] <a href="http://www.imperial.st" target="_blank">http://www.imperial.st</a>

[ringring]

Also, it won't be long till China absolutely dominates the manufacturing industry after starving the rest of the countries industries. Then they can name their price, where will we be then...

Indian, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Vietnam...it's a big, big competitive world.

[haptronic]

Quote:

Also, it won't be long till China absolutely dominates the manufacturing industry after starving the rest of the countries industries. Then they can name their price, where will we be then...

Indian, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Vietnam...it's a big, big competitive world.

--- Original message by ringring on Oct 6, 2005 12:56 AM

we get the pakistani levi's where i live, nothing wrong with construction and cut. give them some nice denim who knows?

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[super]

Yep most of us still have the common misconception that Made in China = bad. I'd like to say Made in China = variable quality since they make such a vast amount of stuff.

I'm wearing chinese made stuff right now, APC jeans (made in macau).

[Pancho]

To me quality is based on fabric thread counts, stitches per inch and fit.

I sell some pretty expensive stuff that's made in China and It is worth

every penny. I think the stigma of Chinese made is definately fading.

I alway think of those in the midwest and south who say not to be sending

jobs overseas and they are the ones lining up at Wal-mart.

Side note-- Just got some Fred Perry product in and It was made in

United Arab Emirates who'd of thought?

[Spike]

How I look at quality:

Ask yourself these questions -

1. How does the fabric feel? Get to know what good quality examples of the material in question feel like, which can often be done by just going into high-end stores and, well, touching the material. I don't quite know how to describe it, but "quality" has a certain feel - t-shirts feel the right kind of "soft", dry denim feels solid, nothing is scratchy/itchy

2. Is it the right thickness? Consider what the product is designed for - if you're looking at winter hoodies, is the material nice and thick, and quite dense? If you're looking at light garments for warm weather, high quality materials will be superlight

3. Does it look well constructed? Appearances can often be deceptive, but usually it's easy to see if the stitching is regular and even, no frays and generally the whole thing looks like it's gonna hold together for the next 10 years. Top quality things should look like they'll last you a very, very long time

4. Is the colour rich? For the most part, high quality stuff has a certain depth to the colour. Just compare black t-shirts: good black t-shirts will be *black*, when put next to a low quality t-shirt the low quality one will often look faded!

5. Is it cut well? A really well cut garment will feel and look as if it just "belongs" on you. No unintentional bulges or creases. Part of this is also to do with getting the right size, and of course on your frame, but for the most part really high quality stuff seems to sit right on almost anyone

There's a lot more you can look for, and for the most part this is simply common sense, but once you've handled or owned a couple of truly wellmade garments you start to get an feel for the quality of things. People seem to really believe that the more you pay, the better the quality, but usually the best things (with the exception of superspecialist clothing) are in the midrange - the inflated price is usually due to brand or hype

Hope this has helped, I sometimes wish I hadn't learnt about quality because I now refuse to buy stuff that isn't really nice quality-wise, even if I love the garment =) Also, for the most part high-quality stuff is just out of my price bracket, which is why I haven't bought anything new for about 6 months!

[Geowu]

very nice explanation, Spike.

4. Is the colour rich? For the most part, high quality stuff has a certain depth to the colour. Just compare black t-shirts: good black t-shirts will be *black*, when put next to a low quality t-shirt the low quality one will often look faded!

I find that the colour can be deceiving. The best quality black t-shirt that I have looks somewhat faded compared to another which is cheap. Also this colour explanation may not apply to leather, but I believe in the case of denim the colour is indeed a good indicator.

[denimrevival]

I'll say this on the topic.It is no longer considered cheap quality when speaking of certain "third world countries".Yes most major denim brands and other garments are now being produced in China and ect.What many don't realize is that these great japanese brands you all speak highly of ~ a number of them are 75% produced outside of japan and brought back for the last 25%(maybe as little as pockets and hardware or even labels make up the 25%) to be finished so they can put made in japan labels.Also many Japanese brands buy denim from Pakistan,Turkey,Peru and a few others. So if you have loved your japanese brands and hold them in high regards then you can consider china and ect to be of high quality.I think many denim fanatics believe that all their jeans are woven cut sewn and produced straight out of Japan and it's not totally true.

Now this is my issue~ as I've researched manufactures and goods all over the world for my own line and I'm from the U.S. and I have pride and would like to see our jobs back here in America to help our own economy. We can continue to support companies that produce overseas and that sell back in the US to only financially gain for their own few pockets while the jobs here diminish and our economy suffers and the economies overseas benefit.The garment industry is a big part of what makes up our economy.Now I can appreciate what other denim companies have to offer and there is no doubt that Japan is fanatical about what they produce and it's hands down superior.But where do you think their inspiration for the love of denim comes from? It's our vintage denim from right here in the United States. They come over and sweep our fleamarkets and denim dealers and outspend our local buyers and take it all back to Japan by the loads.They say that in the near future that if you want to buy good vintage denim that you'll have to go to Japan.Actually I know denim dealers that are already doing just that.It's a shame that we as awhole do not share the same enthusiam for our own young culture as others like Japan and western Europe do.It's our fault.So to you denim finatics who gobble up all the great japanese brands, try going to good vintage stores or fleamarkets and buy a great pair of original levis or Lee's ect.I mean for the amount of money you're spending on these jeans you can afford a good pair of vintage 501xx levis(which is basically what every japanese jean is inspired from).All the chainstitches and hidden rivets and thread counts ect ect is all from the way levis were made back in the day.It was originated and developed here.

p.s this is not an attack just a rant and insight.

REVIVAL