Fighting "item not as described" claims on ebay

[herpsky]

I recently sold a whole bunch of shoes that I've saved for reselling.

There were a few pairs that I wore for an hour or two.

I just received a couple of claims from hypebeasts because the description I had provided did not match their expectations.

I used subjective terms like "near deadstock." To me, the shoes seemed near-deadstock but the buyers are just being neurotic.

Has anyone fought this type of claim before?

I know that sellers always lose when they have no tracking info and the items get "lost."

Do sellers lose in this case too? FUCK YOU PAYPAL

[blm14]

Typically sellers lose. BUT! The better photographs you took of the shoes beforehand the better off you are. If he's saying they're beat up, and you can show images in glowing 1600x1200 that show the shoes without a spec of dirt from every angle, that might help.

I assume he's opened a complaint, what is he saying exactly?

[herpsky]

One line summary:

"you stated it was VNDS but it ain't. i want my money back."

electronic shoplifting is the cancer that is killing ebay

[_ironman]

tell him to explain how it isn't very near dead stock. as a buyer, he is allowed to provide pictures in claims and stuff to help him prove it. give him your definition of deadstock, and say how you provided what you thought was necessary, and if he was unsure of anything he should've asked first.

i think he will have a very very hard time proving it, i mean, especially since he received the item fine and it wasn't like ripped/torn and worn with stains. i don't think he will win, as i had a situation with buying a fake item and i hardly won....

ebay seller sold me fake Diors, paypal said prove it. i took screenshots of his numerous emails where he kept changing his excuses of why the jeans were not quite right. it wasn't good enough; i had to get a letter of someone certified to make an authenticity decision, which at the same time had to explain how/why they are certified and have contact info and a company letterhead. it was fucked

best of luck to you

[xcoldricex]

wooo gotta love the 'bay and it's users

[blm14]

I think the key is going to be the information available to your bidder prior to bidding. That is if your pictures and description are ample to describe any wear/damage (or lack thereof) then the buyer has no case...

[herpsky]

i want my monies back paypal!!!

[jcotteri]

good luck..

[RobZ]

PayPal has taken out $250 out of my account in the past week. They took out $40 because a buyer claimed 30 days after the item was delivered that his credit card was actually stolen. And secondly, I got $200 taken out after my package was tampered with en route to Ukraine. For PayPal stating they are trying to keep buyers/sellers safe, I've never won a battle as a seller.

Which is bullshit with all these unknowledgable thiefs on eBay.

[Charlie Delta]

I read this therm for the first time today:

i asked about the condition of the shoes. he told me that there was 100% stars left.

It cracked me up.

So yeah. Don't hold back when taking pics...

[dismalfuture]

oh me lucky stars

[fndmybetterhalf]

PayPal has taken out $250 out of my account in the past week. They took out $40 because a buyer claimed 30 days after the item was delivered that his credit card was actually stolen. And secondly, I got $200 taken out after my package was tampered with en route to Ukraine. For PayPal stating they are trying to keep buyers/sellers safe, I've never won a battle as a seller.

Which is bullshit with all these unknowledgable thiefs on eBay.

similar thing happened to me a long time ago. sold and shipped a pair of jeans for $180 to New Jersey. roughly a month or so later, he emailed me saying he never received it. at that point, i had thought he wouldve received the items by then since he hadnt contacted me before, so i threw the receit away. so yeah, in the end i lost $180.

usually the package either ends up back at sent address or ends up getting there later, but nothing ever showed up at my door...I had a similar event happen with sufu member CBM but luckily the item ended up back at my door TWICE (possibly due to a problem I've had with shipping out to Australia for some reason) but third times a charm, he received the shoes literally 2-3 months after he bought it. CBM was very understanding, great guy, thanks again for the business.

[mpcec]

^^ I hate shit like that. I was returning a package to context, and it was en route for from something like June to August, UPS couldn't get a hold of it, and it was sporadically getting checked in at different places between CT and Minnesota. It was the worst.

Finally in August, package shows up at my door step with all the labels ripped off of it. I go down to the UPS store to talk to the manager and send it out again, and he was dumbfounded. On the tracker it still said it was in Minnesota.

Basically fuck everything that doesn't work out like it should.

[chronoaug]

That's why i hate shipping overseas or even to canada. It costs a bunch to get delivery confirmation out of domestic shipping and people don't want to pay that. But when i ship without any, i'm taking a huge gamble since they could easily rip me off.

[RobZ]

That's why i hate shipping overseas or even to canada. It costs a bunch to get delivery confirmation out of domestic shipping and people don't want to pay that. But when i ship without any, i'm taking a huge gamble since they could easily rip me off.

I have delivery confirmation on all my items and PayPal doesn't seem to care. They really seem to fuck over the honest people and let scammers get away.

[chronoaug]

I don't understand how paypal can give a refund to a person who said the item didn't get there when you have a delivery confirmation receipt from usps or ups. How does this even work? People should really use google checkout more. Less fees too.

[blm14]

That's why i hate shipping overseas or even to canada. It costs a bunch to get delivery confirmation out of domestic shipping and people don't want to pay that. But when i ship without any, i'm taking a huge gamble since they could easily rip me off.

I haven't really had any problems with shipping prices since I put a HUGE toc on my ebay listings and especially since ebay lets you put in the weight and service and it precalculates the shipping cost for you.

Buyers can hardly complain that you're overcharging them when the US postal service website is reporting your shipping costs for you. I don't even bother with anything less than international priority mail anymore when it comes to shipping overseas.

What REALLY kills me is the people who want me to declare my $300 jeans for $20 so they can save money on duty. Meanwhile if I declare $20 that's all I could ever recover from insurance, hence the following passage in my bidders' TOC:

INTERNATIONAL BIDDERS: YOU MUST COMPLY WITH ALL CUSTOMS REGULATIONS, IN ALL APPLICABLE COUNTRIES. PLEASE DETERMINE YOUR COUNTRY'S LAWS BEFORE BIDDING. I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SALE IF IT APPEARS THE BUYER IS ATTEMPTING NON-COMPLIANCE WITH CUSTOMS LAWS.

[chronoaug]

I was referring to selling stuff on sufu. If i want to ship a tshirt to singapore or even canada, you have to ship it express for USPS which runs almost $30 while in the states, delivery confirmation and 2-3 day is only $6. Someone shipped an item from maybe singapore to me the other day and they had signature confirmation on it and the postage only said $8-12 on it. The hell is the US's problem that they can't do that?

[_ironman]

That's why i hate shipping overseas or even to canada. It costs a bunch to get delivery confirmation out of domestic shipping and people don't want to pay that. But when i ship without any, i'm taking a huge gamble since they could easily rip me off.

if they don't want to pay it that's their fault. don't take the risk

i don't like it when i get overcharged and pay ~$25 to find out when it gets here they spent like $6 postage.

but stuff i get on eBay shipped from the US is usually USPS priority mail ($15-$25) and seems to always come with a tracking number and confirmation. i usually have to go to the post office to sign before i can pick it up. i think that's fair for both buyer and seller, and not too expensive

[blm14]

It used to be that the only method for obtaining tracking on out-of-USA shipments was express mail but about a year ago the postal service raised their prices and totally re-tooled all the shipping services. Now there's TWO services you can use for outgoing international mail which allow tracking or delivery confirmation:

- Priority Mail International: available to some (BUT NOT ALL) countries. Offers either full tracking (to canada, japan, etc) but only delivery confirmation to others. Only available using parcel service (flat-rate envelopes do not apply). There are flat-rate boxes available but typically they're not worth it unless you're sending something heavier than about 2 pounds. Insurance does not come standard but can be purchased as an additional service. This is the cheaper of the two.

- Express Mail Service: Available almost everywhere, fully trackable everywhere that accepts it. Includes $100 of insurance already but more can be purchased. Also includes flat-rate boxes.

Both services offer a 5% discount if postage is paid for online.

Example online prices of a 1 pound 8oz package being sent to:

canada (http://ircalc.usps.gov/IntlMailServices.aspx?Country=10054&M=2&P=1&O=8&sd=1):

IPM: 16.44

IPM flat-rate: 21.85

IPM large flat-rate: 28.45

IPM Express Mail: 23.00

Japan (http://ircalc.usps.gov/IntlMailServices.aspx?Country=10214&M=2&P=1&O=8&sd=1):

IPM: 23.99

IPM flat-rate: 35.15

IPM large flat-rate: 47.45

IPM Express Mail: 29.44

The reason that singapore guy is able to send international for $8 is probably that he's using the equivalent of first-class mail with signature confirmation added as an additional service. My guess would be (because I have no idea of what services singapore post offers) that this service is neither trackable nor insurable and that the signature confirmation is probably mailed back on paper to the sender...

edit: checking http://www.singpost.com.sg/quick_services/quicks_02postage_cal.asp I have no idea how anyone could have sent you anything heavy from singapore with signature confirmation for that little. I guess I _might_ buy that signature confirmation could be added to surface mail, but I kinda doubt it...

[freecat]

^ maybe he works for the singaporean postal service... I'd love to be able to send international for $6. Luckily enough, the french postal system works well and is not overpriced.

Just a hint so that you don't get overcharged when buying from france: for internal posting, it's on average: $18 no insurance no tracking, $28 tracking no insurance, $40-50 insurance and tracking

[chronoaug]

Maybe it wasn't from singapore, but i remember it being around there and being shocked at the service for the price.

Depending on where i'm shipping to internationally, they won't let me get delivery confirmation on anything but express. That's what the person at the counter tells me. Very irritating since if you're having trouble selling something to US people and a international person wants to buy but says they "don't care about tracking" and don't want to pay $25-30. I tell them i don't want to ship without insurance and they get cheap and start lowballing so i lose money. I'm just gonna bug the crap out of the counter people next time until they find me a good cheap option.

Herp- how did your situation work out?

[littlebigman]

i've heard that usps deliv. confirmation isn't good enough proof of tracking for paypal's standards. is that true? if so, does usps offer anything that does comply or are you supposed to ship ups, fedex, etc.? payapls site is vague from what i've read.

[arem]

i've heard that usps deliv. confirmation isn't good enough proof of tracking for paypal's standards. is that true? if so, does usps offer anything that does comply or are you supposed to ship ups, fedex, etc.? payapls site is vague from what i've read.

I think they require a service with a real tracking number, not just delivery confirmation. If someone says they never got a package from you Delivery Confirmation can't give you any info about where the package might be, but a Fed Ex number or something like that will have detailed info as to where a package is. I think the closest thing USPS offers is Registered Mail.

EDIT: From the Paypal Site: "Packages should be sent with tracking numbers. Once you get a tracking number from the shipping service, promptly send it to the buyer. As an extra precaution, you should consider adding delivery confirmation."

So obviously tracking and delivery confirmation are 2 separate things to the USPS. When you add the cost of confirmation and registered mail to the USPS rates UPS and FED EX become a lot more competitive, because they include both services in their fee.

[blm14]

I think in this case paypal is talking about SIGNATURE confirmation. Trackable packages by definition can be confirmed - the final status is "delivered." However you CAN have delivery confirmation without TRACKING.

In general though I think that if you send international priority mail OR express mail (EMS) you automatically get both. I've used international priority mail to send things to the UK, Canada, Japan, and Mexico and every time the package has been fully trackable.

For example:

http://trkcnfrm1.smi.usps.com/PTSInternetWeb/InterLabelInquiry.do?strOrigTrackNum=CJ283657708US&Go+to+Track+%26+Confirm.x=9&Go+to+Track+%26+Confirm.y=6

and click the additional details button. This package hasn't yet been delivered yet but as you can see, each SCAN is tracked. I sent this one to canada using international priority mail (cost: about $16 for a pair of jeans).

The lesson to learn from all of this, and I've been sending international parcels for YEARS, is that nobody really understands how every service works especially since they work differently in each recipient country. Paypal doesn't really know and most of the time your post office employees don't know either. So if you're worried about fraud or damage your best bet is ALWAYS to get the most-insurable (and fully insure) and the most-trackable service possible.

[Guest]

Is signature conformation when the postman comes to your door and asks someone to physically sign for the package? My laptop, for example, could not just be left on my doorstep - I actually had to be there to sign for it.

[herpsky]

is the ups tracking number considered real tracking?

ive been using ups a lot lately. since i have a personal mailbox at a ups store, i get a 10% off on all items and services there.

but back to the original topic...

i have been sending messages to paypal periodically regarding the claims that were filed. it's been about a month but there hasn't really been any progress...

[sbw4224]

Because I might be the only person alive to ever win a dispute against Paypal as a seller, I'm going to help you guys out.

I'm going to list the terms as seen in the User Agreement that need to be fulfilled in order to obtain full Seller Protection. After I'll break it down and explain why you're basically fucked as a seller.

" 1. You must have a Verified Business or Verified Premier Account at the time of the transaction,

2. The transaction must be between a US, UK or Canadian buyer and a US, UK or Canadian seller,

3. The payment must be listed as Seller Protection Policy Eligible on the Transaction Details page, or cleared by PayPal through Payment Review,

4. You must accept a single payment from one PayPal Account for the purchase,

5. You must not charge a surcharge for accepting PayPal,

6. You must ship the purchased item to the address listed on the Transaction Details page,

7. You must ship the item to the buyer within 7 Days of receiving payment,

8. You must have trackable online proof of delivery from an approved shipper to the address on the Transaction Details page. For transactions involving $250.00 USD or more, you must provide a proof of receipt that was signed or otherwise acknowledged by the buyer and can be viewed online, (If you paid in a currency other than US dollars, the following amounts apply for this section: $325.00 CAD, €200.00 EUR, £150.00 GBP, Â¥28000.00 JPY, $350.00 AUD, 330.00 CHF, 1,600.00 NOK, 2,000.00 SEK, 1,500.00 DKK, 800.00 PLN, 55000.00 HUF, 6,000.00 CZK, $400.00 SGD, $2,000.00 HKD, $380.00 NZD), and

9. You must respond to PayPals requests for information within the time period PayPal specifies.

Additional qualification requirement for unauthorized payments:

a. The address on the "Transaction Details" page that you ship to must be a Confirmed Address. This requirement does not apply to Chargebacks due to non-receipt of merchandise.

Please note that in order to qualify for our Seller Protection Policy you must ship the item as required in this section. If you hand deliver an item, or provide delivery in any manner other than required in this section, your transaction will not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy."

Okay, seem long enough? Paypal will make it as difficult as possible for you to win.

1. This might seem obvious, but not everyone has this type of account. If you don't, you're out of luck already.

2. Shipping to France? Negative. Want to sell to Japan and Australia? I don't think so. If you do you're fucked.

3. Sketchy payments will screw you over.

4. Again, don't accept payments from multiple sources. Fair enough.

5. Not sure if they count overcharging on shipping as a surcharge, but you better be careful on this one.

6. Don't listen to buyers telling you to ship to another address after the payment (ie workplace, friend's place, mom's place)

7. Don't be lazy - ship the stuff out quickly. To clarify, if you are receiving an e-check, Paypal won't start the 7-day clock until AFTER the check is cleared.

8. ************************************

Okay, you WILL get screwed by 8. Online trackable proof WITH online signature confirmation. Guess what? I don't think this even exists. If it does someone please enlighten me.

Let's say you found this type of service. Now you have to make sure the buyer who purchased the item signs it. How can you make sure of this? You can't. Good luck, especially if you send it to a business. More than likely this will be the clause that really fucks you over.

9. Honestly, more than likely at this point Paypal will never give your money back. They claim to investigate but will not go further than checking if you have online tracking.

Good luck.

[bill]

Electronic Shipping Info Received

The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper on April 11, 2008 to expect your package for mailing. This does not indicate receipt by the USPS or the actual mailing date. Delivery status information will be provided if / when available. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.

what this shit means?

[blm14]

It means they've printed the label electronically and paid postage online (either via paypal or USPS.com) but the package has yet to be actually mailed.

If they sent it to you international priority mail or EMS (I see you're in canada) then you'll get a different message within 24 hours of the first scan of the barcode label..